Toledo @ Akron 2-18-15

[zippyfan34]

Not in the cards for a top 4 seed this year I think. Who knows, maybe make a run from a lower seed in the tourny. I am not too ticked off tonight, playing without our PG up against the favorite in the league. (sucks losing to UT all the time though)

I really wish Jake and Reggie could knock down the three with some consistency. The team has had a horrible shooting time of it the last couple of games

I came away with the "moral victory" tonight and saw enough from the team without Noah to say they will win out and win the MAC tourney! This group plays well together and I think the best is yet to come.

[clarkwgriswold]

Grrrrrrrrrrr... That was frustrating. No shame in losing to Toledo as they are a fine team. Just sooooooo many missed chances.

[UAZipster0305]

I do not understand what KD is thinking when he did not have Deji out there the last 3 minutes. He is the second leading scorer, can drive to the basket, has senior experience and is very good defensively. We did not score the last 3 minutes. When I saw the lineup of Kwan, Pat, Reggie, Jake and Antino there was no question that the ball was going to Pat down low. They double teams him and he missed a hard shot.

The last shot by Juice was a fade away 15 footer with a hand in his face. He made a great shot.

Tough loss at home but at least we did not get blown out. When they were up by 10 I did not know if we could come back. At least we showed some fight.

The team has shown fight all year, and I think this bodes very well come tournament time.

[Dave in Green]

It really did hurt to start the game thinking the Zips were at a big disadvantage without Noah, then being amazed at how well Antino and Malcolm filled in to keep the Zips in the game, and then end up losing a heartbreaker by 2. Coach Dambrot specifically subbed in Malcolm to cover Juice on that last possession because Malcolm is about as quick as Antino but longer. Malcolm covered Juice as well as anyone on the team could and stayed with him step for step. But a fall away jumper is one of the toughest shots to cover, and Juice is a master at it. That's why many project him as MAC player of the year. Another painful loss, but I still like the Zips' potential to peak at the Q.

[UAZip0510]

Personally I thought it was a dumb move to put Walters on Juice. When I saw Walters sub-in, I knew the shot was going in. I'm tired of losing to Toledo.

If anyone wants to know why attendance is down, we lose games that matter in our own conference. It's boring to watch the Zips beat up on teams that we always beat up on, and it really, really, really sucks to lose to teams we need to beat.

Akron has been among the final two teams standing in Cleveland in seven of the last eight years. Do we lose some important games? Sure. Do we win more important games than we lose? The results don't lie.

I'm not sure how it was dumb to put Walters on Juice...he defended the play as well as you can defend it, Brown just hit the tough shot.

[UAZipster0305]

I came away with the "moral victory" tonight and saw enough from the team without Noah to say they will win out and win the MAC tourney! This group plays well together and I think the best is yet to come.

Be prepared for a loss in Canada. We lose there every year even when we have a far superior team, and Buffalo is very good this year.

[morris buttermaker]

I still like the Zips' potential to peak at the Q.

I've seen that before... Let's hope they peak the week after

[johnnyzip84]

As the voice of Lee Corso would say numerous times on the on NCAA video game, "I'm not second guessing, I'm FIRST guessing" - I mentioned to ZipsWin! before our second to last possession that I want us to shoot in the 1st 10-15 seconds into the shot clock. I did not want to burn the whole clock and hand control of the game to Juice. That's exactly what we did. Few coaching decisions are as cut and dry as clock management. Unless KD ordered an earlier shot and the team did not execute his plans, I believe he made a big mistake by not going 2 for 1 in that instance. And since nobody brought it up in the post-game interview, I am inclined to think he did NOT order a 2 for 1.

The effort was there tonight - I can't find fault there. I'm a little concerned about team confidence at the moment however. We'll see how they can recover.

[Zipsbabie]

Why would KD have Antino, Deji, and Aaron Jackson on the bench with 1:42 left? They are the players that made big shots to come back from being down 10.

[bigzipguy]

Great question Zipsbabie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[1981 grad]

I agree they should have been out there but Antino may have been winded. He kept raising his hand to come out. He is not used to playing that many minutes and I think he tired at the end of the game. He took a bad 3 pointer with about 3 minutes left that was not close.

KD pulled Aron when he did not hustle for a rebound right in front of the Zips bench. He was having a great game and I also would like to see him back in there.

[Dave in Green]

The 2 for 1 is an interesting option. The Zips rebounded a missed Toledo shot with 59 seconds on the clock. Had they rushed a shot in 10-15 seconds, Toledo would likely have used the full 35 seconds on their possession, leaving the Zips with another 10-15 seconds for their final play. The Zips haven't shown great ability to get off shots in 10-15 seconds, and that would have been compounded tonight without their starting PG available to quarterback the plays. The Zips typically do better when they take the time to set up an open man. Pat had an opportunity for a high percentage shot with 32 seconds left but was bumped pretty hard as he was releasing and no foul was called. I think if the Zips had missed a couple of quick shots and Juice had delivered on his that there would have been complaints that the Zips should have taken the time to set up a high percentage shot as they normally do.

As to why Antino was on the bench late in the game, he was physically exhausted. He averages 13 minutes per game and played 31 minutes tonight. Antino waved to the bench for a sub whenever he thought his exhaustion was hurting the team. Antino asked to be taken out with about 2 minutes left and then returned with about 1 minute left after he'd caught his breath. Otherwise, Coach Dambrot always tries to have the players on the floor at the end of a close game who he thinks will perform most reliably in the specific situation.

[zippy5]

The bad news is that is that was our 5th conference loss. Outside of that first loss to Toledo, we've had our chances to win each of those other games. In those other four losses, we've lost by a combined nine points. We just need to find a way to consistently hit a big shot at the end of the game. Today, Juice Brown did exactly that. Everyone knew he was going to get the ball, and yet he still managed to hit the game winner for Toledo.

Needed the wins at NIU and OU. Pretty much had to go undefeated at home after those two losses. Title still is in reach, but it's not gonna be easy.

[zippy5]

Why would KD have Antino, Deji, and Aaron Jackson on the bench with 1:42 left? They are the players that made big shots to come back from being down 10.

Deji should be playing 30 minutes a night. It sickened me that he wasn't in for the last two minutes.

[Dr Z]

Weatherspoon #2 on ESPN top ten today

[skip-zip]

1) I agree with Dave that you have to take the 2 for 1 at the end of the game. There was plenty of time to run a set play and still leave at least 40 seconds on the clock in order to get the final possession.

2) I don't want to use the absence of Noah as an excuse, but I will say that we probably need an entirely healthy roster to beat all of the best teams in the MAC on a neutral court next month.

3) I'm not Keith, but I really felt like we'd probably leave Nyles on the bench to start the game, and let him pick up some minutes at PG to help Antino as the game progressed, since we had plenty of options at the #2 spot. I felt like Nyles would have been a better option at PG than a walk-on freshman with very little game experience. Just my thought. Although, I felt like Malcolm played admirably.

[zippy5]

1) I agree with Dave that you have to take the 2 for 1 at the end of the game. There was plenty of time to run a set play and still leave at least 40 seconds on the clock in order to get the final possession.

I was sitting with a coach last night and he was thinking the 2 for 1 there would have been a bad idea. Reason being UA would have needed to get a shot off within about 10 seconds to have a decent look on the next trip down (re: shooting the ball with 40 seconds left would lead to an ugly shot if UT ran the shot clock down to 1 or 2 before shooting). So then you're rushing one shot on the first trip, and then rushing another shot with 10 seconds left. This doesn't even take into account UT maybe getting an offensive rebound and the Zips not touching the ball again. KD made the right choice by opting for the best shot instead of the 2 for 1.

[skip-zip]

I was sitting with a coach last night and he was thinking the 2 for 1 there would have been a bad idea. Reason being UA would have needed to get a shot off within about 10 seconds to have a decent look on the next trip down (re: shooting the ball with 40 seconds left would lead to an ugly shot if UT ran the shot clock down to 1 or 2 before shooting). So then you're rushing one shot on the first trip, and then rushing another shot with 10 seconds left. This doesn't even take into account UT maybe getting an offensive rebound and the Zips not touching the ball again. KD made the right choice by opting for the best shot instead of the 2 for 1.

Maybe if the time was tighter. But, there were 59 seconds left at the time. It would not have been a rushed play by any means to get a 2 for 1 in that situation. But, there's a lot of things to take into account in that situation, one being that you still need to run a play to get a good shot. But, making the assumption that Toledo would have used every one of their 35 seconds on the ensuing possession, plus an offensive rebound, would be an extreme circumstance. Without polling other coaches myself, I can only tell you that Coach K plays this scenario all the time, during both halves of the game, so it's certainly a logical strategy, even to the best coaches.

Plus, as we've seen many times, it only takes a few seconds to get the ball into the frontcourt to take a final shot, if necessary.

[morris buttermaker]

I was sitting with a coach last night and he was thinking the 2 for 1 there would have been a bad idea. Reason being UA would have needed to get a shot off within about 10 seconds to have a decent look on the next trip down (re: shooting the ball with 40 seconds left would lead to an ugly shot if UT ran the shot clock down to 1 or 2 before shooting). So then you're rushing one shot on the first trip, and then rushing another shot with 10 seconds left. This doesn't even take into account UT maybe getting an offensive rebound and the Zips not touching the ball again. KD made the right choice by opting for the best shot instead of the 2 for 1.

I don't consider getting a shot off in 10 seconds rushing things

[zippy5]

Maybe if the time was tighter. But, there were 59 seconds left at the time. It would not have been a rushed play by any means to get a 2 for 1 in that situation. But, there's a lot of things to take into account in that situation, one being that you still need to run a play to get a good shot. But, making the assumption that Toledo would have used every one of their 35 seconds on the ensuing possession, plus an offensive rebound, would be an extreme circumstance. Without polling other coaches myself, I can only tell you that Coach K plays this scenario all the time, during both halves of the game, so it's certainly a logical strategy, even to the best coaches.

Plus, as we've seen many times, it only takes a few seconds to get the ball into the frontcourt to take a final shot, if necessary.

59 seconds.. say Toledo uses most of the shot clock, you're talking 2 shots in 24 total seconds. that's if you're taking the last shot with no intention of giving yourself a chance for an offensive rebound, which most coaches do if you're trailing. Plus you're going full court on the second possession. I haven't seen many set plays that I'd feel comfortable knowing we would get off two good looks in that amount of time.

Obviously it didn't work. But if going into the last 59 seconds - you told me the Zips would get a wide open three, and Toledo would be forcing up a fadeaway with 2 seconds left and a hand in his face, I'd take my chances. I wish the walk-on wasn't the one with the open look, however. I think Jake could have gotten a clean shot off before he swung it again.

[1981 grad]

A 2 for 1 was not an option because the Zips did not take a timeout until there were 53 seconds left. Even if we took a shot within 10 seconds, Toledo gets the ball back with about 40 seconds on the time clock. We get a few seconds left but not enough time for a good shot.

The problems is that we did not score in the last 3 minutes of the game. Pat missed 2 shots, Antino took a bad 3 shot several feet behind the 3 line that wasn't close and Malcom missed a wide open three. (Antino also took a wild 3 at the end of the Eastern Michigan game) We do not have a go to guy at the end of the game. In the Buffalo game we did not score in the last 5 minutes. In the Middle Tenn. game, we did not even get off a shot trying to get the ball into Pat. The only buzzer beater we had this year is from Gladden on an offensive put back. (I still think that KD needs to have a guy in at the end of the game that can create his own shot, Deji, Gladden, or Aron Jackson)

I thought Antino played great in his first start but you could tell he was wearing out in the second half. Malcom was great for a guy who never played any meaningful minutes until tonight. We are a young team and that is the problem with a young team. They have a senior point guard with experience,Juice Brown and we don't.

[skip-zip]

59 seconds.. say Toledo uses most of the shot clock, you're talking 2 shots in 24 total seconds. that's if you're taking the last shot with no intention of giving yourself a chance for an offensive rebound, which most coaches do if you're trailing. Plus you're going full court on the second possession. I haven't seen many set plays that I'd feel comfortable knowing we would get off two good looks in that amount of time.

Obviously it didn't work. But if going into the last 59 seconds - you told me the Zips would get a wide open three, and Toledo would be forcing up a fadeaway with 2 seconds left and a hand in his face, I'd take my chances. I wish the walk-on wasn't the one with the open look, however. I think Jake could have gotten a clean shot off before he swung it again.

A lot of assumptions in there. I don't have all day to type.

I'm taking 2 possessions over 1 possession, any time I can, hands down. Obviously you think otherwise.

Just to be clear, Toledo didn't force a fadeaway. As the article says, that was their guy for that play, they got him isolated, we couldn't double, and he launched the same shot from 15 ft. away that he does all game long.

[Zipgrad01]

Personally I thought it was a dumb move to put Walters on Juice. When I saw Walters sub-in, I knew the shot was going in. I'm tired of losing to Toledo.

If anyone wants to know why attendance is down, we lose games that matter in our own conference. It's boring to watch the Zips beat up on teams that we always beat up on, and it really, really, really sucks to lose to teams we need to beat.

Really? Did you even play basketball so you can make a judge on matchups or did you sleep in a holiday inn express last night? I had absolutely no issue with Walters guarding Juice. Walters physically matched up well with Juice during many one on ones during the game. He is long, athletic, and has nice lateral quickness. He was in his face on that shot. That was simply a great shot. I have more of an issue with our inbounds defensive scheme over anything. No way on earth is Juice touching the ball. Walters fought through several screens and still stuck right to him. In a ideal word I would have had Deji matched up with him, but Walters would probably be high on the list after watching him last night.

[Dave in Green]

Skip, you need to re-read my post. I said it was an interesting option but pointed out the problems of the Zips trying to go 2 for 1 in this specific case as others have also done. The 2 for 1 is not a slam dunk or coaches would automatically use it every time the opportunity arose. It depends on a lot of variables, some of which I mentioned in my earlier post. If I had a nickle for every time a basketball coach passed on a 2 for 1 opportunity I'd be out of this NEO deep freeze right now cruising in the Bahamas on my luxury yacht.

[johnnyzip84]

I’d like to clarify why I think the 2 for 1 was the correct strategy, especially last night.

1. Getting a shot off with 10 seconds left on the shot clock as opposed to getting a shot off within the first 10 seconds of the shot clock are two different things. In the former scenario, the defense knows with certainty when the last few seconds are ticking down and they can take some chances (for example, sending 2 or 3 guys to a shooter knowing there’s not enough time for another pass). In the latter, the defense doesn’t know your strategy (i.e. 2 for 1 or not) so they can’t take those kind of chances at some arbitrary moment into the shot clock.
2. I said especially last night, because I think you have to consider the opposition when making these decisions. Juice Brown has made shots like the game-winner he made last night numerous times in his career. That’s why I really wanted a decent chance for at least 2 shots (and a desperate heave with 1.7 seconds left doesn’t qualify) - I was pretty sure Juice would do his part.

By the way, KD can coach here as long as he likes from my perspective. I simply disagree with the end-game strategy last night, that’s all. He’s done a really nice job with the team this year.