Enrollment

[ZipCat]

On 6/25/2024 at 9:57 AM, UA1996MAENG said:

Hypothetically, I would be more interested in pursuing a business degree at UA, for example, if I knew that my 20+ years in international business, marketing and manufacturing  could be applied to reduce the degree requirements.

 

Fair enough. Sometimes I hyperfocus on the potential negative aspects of something because I can be a bit cynical. Because simple application of a blanket experience is not necessarily a replacement for something else. Take military service, a lot of states are offering accelerated degrees for secondary education giving experience credits for having served in the military; but what classes the replace are completely unrelated to whatever that person did in the military. Just because someone can prep a group of soldiers for a military exercise, does not mean they can easily manage a classroom of 30 middle-schoolers. It's a completely different skillset. States like Florida go ahead and give the waver for both classroom pedagogy and content to get them degrees faster; and they have the highest burnout amongst new teachers.

 

I'm always hesitant, but I see your point, it seems like if it's used properly it's totally valid.

[UA1996MAENG]

6 minutes ago, ZipCat said:

 

Fair enough. Sometimes I hyperfocus on the potential negative aspects of something because I can be a bit cynical. Because simple application of a blanket experience is not necessarily a replacement for something else. Take military service, a lot of states are offering accelerated degrees for secondary education giving experience credits for having served in the military; but what classes the replace are completely unrelated to whatever that person did in the military. Just because someone can prep a group of soldiers for a military exercise, does not mean they can easily manage a classroom of 30 middle-schoolers. It's a completely different skillset. States like Florida go ahead and give the waver for both classroom pedagogy and content to get them degrees faster; and they have the highest burnout amongst new teachers.

 

I'm always hesitant, but I see your point, it seems like if it's used properly it's totally valid.

I am curious about the “conversion” of experience to credit too and sometimes a bit cynical as well.  My older son is one year into his U.S. Navy service, and he is looking ahead to see what he could do in college.  He's a submariner and a sonar tech, so I'm not sure how UA or any university offering these credit-for-experience programs can award credit for the training he's had and the experience he will accumulate at sea.  Certainly some majors lend themselves to this better than others. I just hope his plans aren’t to major in dance.  

[Spin]

I came across this article which talks about something they talked about a dozen years ago. 
 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/07/cleveland-state-freezes-42-bachelors-masters-degrees-while-it-retools-eliminates-programs-officials-say.html

[ZippyRulz]

On 7/3/2024 at 8:57 AM, Spin said:

I came across this article which talks about something they talked about a dozen years ago. 
 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/07/cleveland-state-freezes-42-bachelors-masters-degrees-while-it-retools-eliminates-programs-officials-say.html

 

cleveland.com is paywalled but here is a link from Signal Cleveland that includes the detailed report from Ernst & Young. 

 

https://signalcleveland.org/faculty-program-cuts-among-consultants-recommendations-for-cleveland-state-to-combat-financial-woes/

 

Edited July 4 by ZippyRulz

[zip-O-matic]

Went to the Dispatch for game info and saw that OSU's freshman class is now over 9K.  That's absurd.  With the enrollment issues around the system, the state should think seriously about capping their class sizes to free up students for other schools.  They would become even more selective, and the other schools would have a pool of very well qualified kids to attract.  

[Reslife4Life]

1 hour ago, zip-O-matic said:

Went to the Dispatch for game info and saw that OSU's freshman class is now over 9K.  That's absurd.  With the enrollment issues around the system, the state should think seriously about capping their class sizes to free up students for other schools.  They would become even more selective, and the other schools would have a pool of very well qualified kids to attract.  

Is that columbus and branch campuses or just columbus? 

[zip-O-matic]

On 8/24/2024 at 4:25 PM, Reslife4Life said:

Is that columbus and branch campuses or just columbus? 

None of the reports that I googled specifically say.  But since recent post-covid classes were 8K, I'd assume it's Columbus.  Also, the reports that I read say that they're having a crunch for dorm space and have converted 2 person rooms into 4 person rooms.  Also found out that they're getting 80K applications with half Ohioans and half out of state.

[GP1]

On 8/24/2024 at 4:09 PM, zip-O-matic said:

Went to the Dispatch for game info and saw that OSU's freshman class is now over 9K.  That's absurd.  With the enrollment issues around the system, the state should think seriously about capping their class sizes to free up students for other schools.  They would become even more selective, and the other schools would have a pool of very well qualified kids to attract.  

Doesn't it make more sense for the remaining Ohio public university system schools to make themselves more attractive to potential students?  Artificial supply restrictions will drive up overall costs for attendance throughout the system making an already increasing societal problem in the form of student debt worse. 

[egregiousbob]

I believe the 9K includes Mansfield.

 

GP1's post above marks the first time I have agreed with him.

 

Other Ohio schools are seeing enrollment increases.  Why not Akron?  It's doing a lot of the wrong things.  But that Cleveland Browns deal (1MM marketing investment by the school, I figure) will really move the needle... 

 

 

[UA1996MAENG]

On 8/24/2024 at 4:09 PM, zip-O-matic said:

Went to the Dispatch for game info and saw that OSU's freshman class is now over 9K.  That's absurd.  With the enrollment issues around the system, the state should think seriously about capping their class sizes to free up students for other schools.  They would become even more selective, and the other schools would have a pool of very well qualified kids to attract.  

OSU main campus is already very selective in both general admissions and for specific colleges. My son had a 3.7 GPA and good ACT and OSU-main admitted him, but he could not get into the College of Engineering. He also didn't care for the whole OSU environment/culture (he is not interested in athletics or the Greek system, etc.). He chose The Univerity of Akron for many great reasons.  I just wish more kids would look to UA as a destination.

[GP1]

The taxpayers of Ohio spent millions turning Akron from a commuter school to a campus where kids would live full time. My understanding is the dorms are full. If so, where are they falling?

[akzipper]

I grew up in Erie, PA and a few dozen of us ended up going to UA. We loved the campus and were willing to pay extra (I still am lol) for out-of-state tuition. It seemed like every year there was a huge chunk of gradating seniors heading to UA from our area. But now? There's almost none. I just don't get why the University isn't seen in the same light anymore. I feel like it's way better than any school NW Pennsylvania. But for some reason kids here just aren't even considering it anymore.

[UA1996MAENG]

5 hours ago, GP1 said:

The taxpayers of Ohio spent millions turning Akron from a commuter school to a campus where kids would live full time. My understanding is the dorms are full. If so, where are they falling?

The UA residence halls are indeed sold out every year. Overall enrollment, as has been discussed in other posts, is way down due to a number of factors, including a nationwide downward trend in college enrollment (except for the "elite" universities and large land-grant "flagship" universities like Ohio State). NE Ohio is the perfect storm of larger national trends: a stagnant economy, a declining population, fewer academically viable males enrolling (fewer males surviving year one if they do enroll), and a lot of nearby competition: UA, KSU, CSU, YSU all within 50 miles of each other plus a lot of private institutions.   

[egregiousbob]

5 hours ago, GP1 said:

The taxpayers of Ohio spent millions turning Akron from a commuter school to a campus where kids would live full time. My understanding is the dorms are full. If so, where are they falling?

Wrong again. The taxpayers don't build dorms -- universities issue bonds and pay that debt from revenue generated by the dorms.  State has zero to do with this -- in fact, law prohibits state from building/renovating dormitories, etc..

 

The dorm rooms might be full but there are relatively few of them compared to the state's "residential" campuses.  The core problem - and it is serious - is that the number of undergraduates at UA has continued to fall over nearly a decade -- even during times when the high school graduation numbers were strong.  Other Ohio universities are seeing robust enrollment numbers again - UA is not. That is the problem.

 

 

[Reslife4Life]

7 hours ago, GP1 said:

The taxpayers of Ohio spent millions turning Akron from a commuter school to a campus where kids would live full time. My understanding is the dorms are full. If so, where are they falling?

The res halls were full starting a year after covid, but that was because UA offered buy out options for people if they didn't want to have a roommate. This was pretty popular, and the rooms filled up, but maybe with 2/3 of the capacity. I am not sure if that is still offered now. Also, off campus housing has gotten smaller. There used to be the big 4 off campus apartments, Depot, Edge, 22 Exchange, and Envision. In 2019 all 4 of these were student housing. 22 Exchange is now "luxury" apartments, way out of the budget for undergrads. Envision is now section 8 housing, regardless of your views on that, a large student housing complex right next to campus is no longer for students. Now there are 2 main apartment complexes and the various house rental companies. Even the houses are becoming less students, north of Thornton was believed to be mostly student houses, but there are a lot more non students living in that area now.

[GP1]

2 hours ago, egregiousbob said:

Wrong again. The taxpayers don't build dorms -- universities issue bonds and pay that debt from revenue generated by the dorms. 

 

 

The vast majority of the students are Ohio residents. That means they are paying for the bonds and interest on the bonds. 

[GP1]

3 hours ago, egregiousbob said:

Wrong again. The taxpayers don't build dorms -- universities issue bonds and pay that debt from revenue generated by the dorms. 

 

 

The vast majority of the students are Ohio residents. That means they are paying for the bonds and interest on the bonds. 

[GP1]

Harvard College admits approximately 2,000 students a year going back to at least 2016. I would bet a number very close to that goes back a long time. Akron should be increasing the standards for admission and maintain at the current enrollment. Higher GPAs and standardized test scores would be good for the University. "More" being the only measurement for success is how the University landed in this position in the first place. I want more, just more good students. I also want fewer underperforming students. 

[egregiousbob]

Yeah, that approach will certainly pay off the debt.  You strike me as someone who is totally decoupled from reality. What color is the sky in your world?

 

 

[zip-O-matic]

4 hours ago, GP1 said:

Harvard College admits approximately 2,000 students a year going back to at least 2016. I would bet a number very close to that goes back a long time. Akron should be increasing the standards for admission and maintain at the current enrollment. Higher GPAs and standardized test scores would be good for the University. "More" being the only measurement for success is how the University landed in this position in the first place. I want more, just more good students. I also want fewer underperforming students. 

 

It would be nice.  Proenza certainly bragged that he could do it, but I just don't know how UA could make the jump to being a highly selective college.  You have the 9K freshman class gorilla in the room that still has an average SAT score of around 1400.  You have Miami with an average of 1280 soaking up a bunch more qualified kids.  And then you have UC starting to get close to Miami in selectivity, though I've heard that they are going with a quantity over quality trend lately.  Add in the kids going private or out of state, and Ohio's demographics simply don't allow for a many very selective public universities like California has with the UC system.  It sucks, but it really is UA, KSU, OU, BGSU and Toledo cannibalizing each other for the leftovers.  It doesn't mean that our group doesn't win the occasional battle, but it's never going to enough to truly move the needle.  

 

And besides, not every public university in a state system should strive to be highly selective.   Selective enough that the kids accepted are capable of doing the work, but not everyone gets to be Berkeley.  

[egregiousbob]

I don't think I'd call what Kent, Ohio Univ. and BGSU are doing "cannibalizing."  Clearly, they are winning.  OU's last 3 freshman classes have set school records for size and academic rankings.  BGSU has grown and Kent is holding its own and is much larger than UA and Toledo, which are shrinking. 

 

One place where Akron is really struggling is student experience.  

 

Edited August 28 by egregiousbob

[GP1]

21 minutes ago, egregiousbob said:

 

One place where Akron is really struggling is student experience.  

 

It would be nice if they could go to a football game against a D1 team on a Saturday when the weather is nice. 

[GP1]

State Share of Instruction

 

It's important to put to bed the idea that the taxpayers of Ohio aren't keeping public universities alive. There is a line in the Universities balance sheet called State Share of Instruction. It's around $90 million. The first sentence of the definition reads:

 

"The State Share of Instruction (SSI) is Ohio’s primary mechanism of subsidizing the instructional costs at Ohio’s public institutions of higher education for the purpose of reducing the cost of tuition for Ohio residents."

 

Those who think they are smart will tell us it applies to instruction. This person doesn't see the real picture. Does anyone out there think UpfA would exist without this revenue line? It's over 30% of the revenue. Would there be an athletic department?...No, because there would be no school. Would there be dorms?....No, there would be no school. Would there be a recreational center?.....No, because there would be no school. 

 

Whenever anyone says the taxpayers of Ohio are putting up money for the instruction and everything else around public universities, they are correct. This is why any taxpayer of Ohio should get 4 general admission tickets to two MAC sports events of their liking annually. They are paying for it. 

[ZipCat]

On 8/24/2024 at 4:09 PM, zip-O-matic said:

Went to the Dispatch for game info and saw that OSU's freshman class is now over 9K.  That's absurd.  With the enrollment issues around the system, the state should think seriously about capping their class sizes to free up students for other schools.  They would become even more selective, and the other schools would have a pool of very well qualified kids to attract.  

 

Or...the radical idea...the state could properly fund higher education like they used to, thus increasing the educational opportunities as those other schools outside OSU. Also, the state doesn't control OSU's (or any other Public University's) enrollment criteria.

[ZipCat]

On 8/29/2024 at 6:55 AM, GP1 said:

It's important to put to bed the idea that the taxpayers of Ohio aren't keeping public universities alive. 

 

As the state should be doing. The share the state should be subsidizing should be considerably higher than it currently is. Students are the future workforce, and the future workforce is future GDP. 

 

Properly fund education, and stop having regressive policies that push young people away from Ohio. Those are the two things the state should do.