Should Akron Seek Another Conference?

[ZachTheZip]

The ONLY way Akron would have a chance of moving to another conference would be in the scenario where the AAC loses Cincinnati and/or UConn  to a power conference. And in that scenario, we're fairly far down the list of desirable candidates. And even if we did manage to make that move, the AAC we would join would be one that isn't that great because they just lost one or two of their best members.

 

But looking at our "competition" for moving up in this hypothetical scenario, NIU and Buffalo are ahead of us from the MAC alone, and if the AAC wanted a more southern market then there are comparable universities in C-USA (Old Dominion has the massive Hampton Roads market which is completely untapped for both college and pro sports) that they would look at first.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Our President says he'd consider moving football to 1-AA. He openly wishes we had a smaller stadium. Basketball hasn't won an NCAA tourney game of any type in nearly a decade.

 

Enjoy the MAC.

[Aaron]

26 minutes ago, lance99 said:

 

 

The only real difference is 1 Million extra they get because of their Basketball(2 Million Total).

 

That's what I was worried about.  I'm not sure that an extra 1 million will cover the travel expenses in the VERY geographically diverse AAC.  Sending all of the University sports down to Texas and Florida on a regular basis would kill a travel budget, I'm sure.  We would go from not having a conference member more than 430 miles away to having our closest games 230 miles away (and the farthest around 1300 miles).

[K92]

2 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

Our President says he'd consider moving football to 1-AA. He openly wishes we had a smaller stadium. Basketball hasn't won an NCAA tourney game of any type in nearly a decade.

 

Enjoy the MAC.

Did your office first aid kit have any ibuprofen?

[Let'sGoZips94]

16 hours ago, zippy5 said:

I'd love it but we don't have anything more to offer than about 25 other teams outside P5 conferences. And that's being generous. 

And unfortunately, I think they missed one of their biggest chances when they chose Scarborough over Tressel. If they would have made Tressel the president, I think our athletics would instantly become more attractive because of the media buzz.

 

That being said, I completely agree with GoZips that we need to get out of the MAC. That has been an obvious MUST for several years. The two biggest things that have held us back: our football program and our basketball arena. Football is now on the definite up-and-up with a Bowl win last year and a win over Pitt a couple years back. The last missing piece of the puzzle is the stupid basketball arena. LeBron... And that's all I'm going to say about that.

 

Otherwise, I would say we are just as attractive, if not more so than an ECU/USF. ECU is the "Giant Killer" in football, which is what garners them so much respect. Their basketball program is average at best, and I don't know much about their soccer program, which means it probably isn't much better than average. USF has pretty decent soccer (Diego Rastrepo still haunts us), but average at best basketball and decent football (sometimes as putrid as Akron's has been). Akron has an up-and-coming football program, an above-average basketball program, and an All-American soccer program. NEO is a great sports market, and we have several very nice facilities (indoor practice field/rec center, InfoCision Stadium, Student Union, First-Energy Stadium, etc.).

 

The AAC is what I want to get into. The teams are intriguing and I believe it is the next stepping stone to get to a P5 conference.

 

One question I have: Would the CUSA be a lateral move, or would that be viewed as an in-between stepping stone from the MAC to the AAC? They have some solid basketball programs, some pretty good football programs, and their soccer can't be worse than the MAC.

[ZachTheZip]

41 minutes ago, lilroodude said:

One question I have: Would the CUSA be a lateral move, or would that be viewed as an in-between stepping stone from the MAC to the AAC? They have some solid basketball programs, some pretty good football programs, and their soccer can't be worse than the MAC.

 

C-USA is essentially the SunBelt from five years ago. Mostly the same teams, plus a Marshall program that's regressed. The AAC is essentially the old C-USA plus UConn.

Edited April 28, 2016 by ZachTheZip

[you am i]

You don't ask to be admitted to a P5 conference. They invite you in if and when they decide it is in their best interest.  That being said, the chances of Akron being asked to join a P5 conference at any time in the forseeable future is the same as Bluto's GPA, 0.00.

Edited April 28, 2016 by you am i

[morris buttermaker]

This is like people in my office talking about how to spend their powerball winnings 

[zippy5]

2 hours ago, morris buttermaker said:

This is like people in my office talking about how to spend their powerball winnings 

Buy a box in Greensboro to watch our Zips in the ACC tournament 

[wadszip]

15 hours ago, ZachTheZip said:

The ONLY way Akron would have a chance of moving to another conference would be in the scenario where the AAC loses Cincinnati and/or UConn  to a power conference. And in that scenario, we're fairly far down the list of desirable candidates. And even if we did manage to make that move, the AAC we would join would be one that isn't that great because they just lost one or two of their best members.

 

But looking at our "competition" for moving up in this hypothetical scenario, NIU and Buffalo are ahead of us from the MAC alone, and if the AAC wanted a more southern market then there are comparable universities in C-USA (Old Dominion has the massive Hampton Roads market which is completely untapped for both college and pro sports) that they would look at first.

Sorry Zach, I disagree 100 percent on this. I'm not saying that Akron is a shoe-in to "move up," but I don't think it's nearly as far-fetched as you (and some others) are making it out to be.

 

I'll start with the "competition" aspect. What makes NIU and Buffalo ahead of Akron in the MAC?

 

NIU has very good football and has Chicago (although DeKalb is to Chicago as Wooster is to Cleveland). Yes, it's the same TV market, but it's a small town on the very outskirts of a market that already has one P5 school (Northwestern) already in it and another (Notre Dame) that for all intents and purposes is "Chicago's" home college. Granted, Chicago is a huge market that could absorb another school in a more prestigious conference, but I don't think NIU would automatically be the MAC school to be the first to be chosen. But it's probably neck-and-neck with Akron, IMO. Maybe NIU is still on top, but both would be, IMO, high on the list of expansion candidates.

 

Buffalo, I don't see it. Buffalo's biggest advantage is academics because it's an AAU school. But academics seem to be playing a minor role in a lot of this reshuffling, or potential reshuffling. The Big Ten, which had an AAU-only policy, decided to take a Nebraska program that it knew was going to lose its status (and sure enough it did within a year of moving to the Big Ten). Now, there is a lot of smoke that the Big Ten could be courting Oklahoma and Florida State (among others), neither of which are AAU schools. It's TV markets and football prestige that seems to be driving realignment. Buffalo has less football prestige than Akron (which is still the Zips biggest issue) and the Buffalo TV market (No. 54) is way behind Cleveland/Akron/Canton (18). Buffalo, unlike both NEO and Chicago, offers very little in gaining traction into fertile recruiting areas, too.

 

Old Dominion is a program that is in the mix. But if ODU is in the mix, Akron definitely is. That "massive" Hampton Roads TV market is No. 42 in the country (right between No. 41 Grand Rapids and No. 43 Oklahoma City). So, massive is a huge reach, unless you want to say Cleveland/Akron/Canton TV market is a "mega" market.

 

I actually think there is going to be major changes in the college athletics landscape. The Big Ten signing a six-year deal with Fox is a sign that it believes crap is about to blow up once the ACC can't deliver on its conference network and those schools would be able to get out of their Grant of Rights agreement. If the Big Ten starts raiding the ACC, the landscape will look totally different that what it does now. You could see the Big Ten raiding the ACC out of Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia Tech and Florida State. Then going west and grabbing Oklahoma. That would put Notre Dame also in play for the Big Ten. That would put the league at 20 schools, who would break down into four pods:

 

1. Penn State, Rutgers, Notre Dame, Indiana, Purdue

2. Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Illinois, Northwestern

3. Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, Florida State (the old ACC pod)

4. Oklahoma, Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota

 

It keeps every traditional rivalry in tact and sets up nicely for a nine-game schedule ... you play your pod and each year one of the other pods. And Notre Dame keeps its East Coast presence by being with PSU and Rutgers. Plus it would only have one true pod test in Penn State where it could continue to keep USC on the schedule.

 

If the Big Ten, which is the driver of the changes, makes that raid, the SEC is sure to follow by taking North Carolina State (or Duke) and Virginia Tech to get into the North Carolina and Virginia markets.  That would get them to 16 members and it could go to a 4-team, 4-pod setup.

 

It could look like:

Coastal: Virginia Tech, North Carolina State (or Duke), South Carolina, Tennessee

South: Georgia, Florida, Kentucky, Vanderbilt

Deep South: Auburn, Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State

West: LSU, Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri

 

The PAC 12 is just as safe as the Big 10 and the SEC. Really, it could decide to do nothing and stay at 12 (since the West Coast options are limited). Or it could make a power move to the east and try to pick off Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State and Kansas from the Big 12 and also go to a 16-team setup (and those four schools would easily add to the league's TV package if Texas is involved). I think that's more likely (if the above dominoes fall into place) than it staying at 12. That league would also go to the SEC style 4-team, 4-pod divisions:

 

Southwest: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas (the Big 12 teams)

California: USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford

Mountain: Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado

Northwest: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State

 

The Big 12 losing those four programs (along with Oklahoma to the B10) is a big hit, but it is still easily on better footing than the ACC (which is blown up at that point), because it still would have enough schools, and more importantly the better TV deal, where it could go East and South and start picking up the remains. Like the SEC and Pac 12 (now Pac 16), it probably stops there and goes to the four-team, four-pod setup.

 

North: Pitt, Syracuse, UConn, Boston College

Midwest: Louisville, West Virginia, Kansas State, Iowa State

South: Clemson, Miami, Duke (or North Carolina State), Cincinnati

West: TCU, Baylor, Houston, BYU (three Texas schools and a religious private to go with religious privates TCU and Baylor).

 

That covers (unless I missed overlooked something) every current P5 school outside of Wake Forest (which is screwed, but would be inherited the ACC brand since everybody else bolted). I think this is where GoZips referring to Akron going to the "ACC" comes from (unless you actually think Akron could get in with the current ACC setup, which has absolutely zero chance of happening).

 

Even this "ACC" is shell of it's current self and would be merely the AAC leftovers and some lower-league bigger market teams thrown in. But there would still be TV slots to fill and adding schools located in large markets that could land a solid TV deal (if they bind together and get out of the dead-weight of their current conferences ... AKA Akron). You could reasonably envision the leftovers who are located in big markets coming together to work out a TV package that would be more beneficial than the current setup, even when including the cost of travel ... which wouldn't be that big of a burden if it's broken into pods ... ala which the now P4 would be broken into). These teams still would have zero chance of making the CFP, but it's not like they do now. But there still is some demand from the networks for the product.

 

What you're left with:

Wake Forest (ACC holdover, who carries the brand flag)

Northern Illinois (No. 3 market, but has P4 competition .. Northwestern for sure, and Notre Dame)

Temple (No. 4 TV market with no local P4 competition)

Georgia State (No. 9 market, but has P4 competition ... Georgia Tech, which is less than 2 miles down the road)

South Florida (No. 11 market, with no P4 competition)

Eastern Michigan (No. 13 market, with the most P4 competition of any school since we're talking Michigan. This isn't realistic, but to be fair, I'll include them)

Florida Atlantic or Florida International (No. 16 market, but has P4 competition ... Miami)

Akron (No. 18 market, with no local P4 competition)

Central Florida (No. 19 market, with no local P4 competition)

Charlotte (No. 22 market, with no local P4 competition)

San Diego State (No. 28 market, with no local P4 competition)

UT San Antonio (No. 32 market, with no local P4 competition)

UNLV (No. 40 market, with no local P4 competition)

Western Michigan (No. 41 market, with no local P4 competition)

Old Dominion (No. 42 market, with no local P4 competition)

UAB (No. 45 market, with no local P4 competition)

Memphis (No. 50 market, with no local P4 competition)

Tulane (No. 51, with no local P4 competition)

Bufflalo (No. 53, with no local P4 competition)

Fresno State (No. 54, with no local P4 competition)

Arkansas-Little Rick (No. 57, with no local P4 competition)

Tulsa (No. 60, with no local P4 competition)

Toledo (No. 77, with no local P4 competition)

 

I'll stop there. I know that's a lot of dominoes that have to fall into place, but when looking at the landscape of what is going down, something that includes most of those schools above (and even some small-market schools like Ohio, Marshall and East Carolina would be in the mix) isn't out of the realm of possibility, especially if you go to a pod set-up. And even if it doesn't fall into place exactly how I put it, there is still opportunity for Akron to "move up" ... as it fits in well with what a network would be looking for ...

 

Big market: check

No local P4 competition: check

Decent football: Thanks to Terry Bowden, closer to a check, though the next couple of years could go a long way to cementing that

Decent basketball: Check

 

Then you have some things that the networks may not care about, but a league would:

 

Football recruiting: Akron's in one of the top 10 areas for producing recruits.

Basketball recruiting: Akron's in one of the top 10-15 areas for that.

Minor sports: Akron has two national-competitive programs ... track and soccer.

 

I think anybody who is forward-thinking enough can see that moving up isn't some off-the-wall possibility. And I know the people running the athletic office have had a vision of moving up for at least the last 15 years. You don't pump the money Akron has into athletics to be settled with the MAC.

 

Edited April 29, 2016 by wadszip

[K92]

Wadszip, Wadszip, Wadszip.

 

You wrote all that to say that Akron might have a chance to join C-USA + Wake Forest?

 

Wow.

[Captain Kangaroo]

4 hours ago, wadszip said:

You don't pump the money Akron has into athletics to be settled with the MAC.

Ever see someone dump $6,000 into a car with a resale value of $3,000? It happens in D1 athletics too, just on a larger scale.

 

We hired Tom Wistercill 6 years ago. Do you make an AD hire like that if you're planning to jump to a higher-level conference?

[kreed5120]

5 hours ago, wadszip said:

Sorry Zach, I disagree 100 percent on this. I'm not saying that Akron is a shoe-in to "move up," but I don't think it's nearly as far-fetched as you (and some others) are making it out to be.

 

.........

 

I think anybody who is forward-thinking enough can see that moving up isn't some off-the-wall possibility. And I know the people running the athletic office have had a vision of moving up for at least the last 15 years. You don't pump the money Akron has into athletics to be settled with the MAC.

 

 

If the ACC literally lost every team besides Boston College in your crazy scenario, the conference would be better off just folding like the WAC instead of trying to find 9 or more teams that it would need to add. At that point Akron would be better off staying in the MAC.

[zippy5]

Plus I'm not sure that scenario is really plausible. The ACC isn't going anywhere

[tpsjugglerdude]

 

16 hours ago, lilroodude said:

Otherwise, I would say we are just as attractive, if not more so than an ECU/USF. ECU is the "Giant Killer" in football, which is what garners them so much respect. Their basketball program is average at best, and I don't know much about their soccer program, which means it probably isn't much better than average. USF has pretty decent soccer (Diego Rastrepo still haunts us), but average at best basketball and decent football (sometimes as putrid as Akron's has been). Akron has an up-and-coming football program, an above-average basketball program, and an All-American soccer program. NEO is a great sports market, and we have several very nice facilities (indoor practice field/rec center, InfoCision Stadium, Student Union, First-Energy Stadium, etc.).

 

As someone who lives in NC, it's funny people are saying ECU football is nothing to write home about. They average 45k in attendance and usually have a winning record, winning 10 games a couple years ago.  Their midweek games are even sellouts. That's a lot more than I can say about our program.

[Balsy]

2 hours ago, K92 said:

Wadszip, Wadszip, Wadszip.

 

You wrote all that to say that Akron might have a chance to join C-USA + Wake Forest?

 

Wow.

 

I thought it was a good post, thanks Wadszip.  It's better than three-line responses that do nothing to further a conversation other than to tear other members down.  If you don't agree that's fine, but don't tear down someone for actually taking the time to write about something that contributes to the forum.  

[K92]

14 minutes ago, Balsy said:

 

It's better than three-line responses that do nothing to further a conversation other than to tear other members down.

(No one was torn down, either.)

[Steve1982]

21 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

Our President says he'd consider moving football to 1-AA. He openly wishes we had a smaller stadium. Basketball hasn't won an NCAA tourney game of any type in nearly a decade.

 

Enjoy the MAC.

1-AA in football would be perfect for a move to the Missouri Valley Conference. That is what football attendance dictates. And it would be great for a basketball team that certainly has had success to move to a multi team NCAA tournament league. 

[Blue & Gold]

1 hour ago, tpsjugglerdude said:

 

As someone who lives in NC, it's funny people are saying ECU football is nothing to write home about. They average 45k in attendance and usually have a winning record, winning 10 games a couple years ago.  Their midweek games are even sellouts. That's a lot more than I can say about our program.

 

I said in my post that there were only 2 AAC teams that made me shrug: Tulsa & ECU.  But honestly, I can't even tell you why.  It's weird.  They just don't grab my attention for some reason, even though I know I'd be going crazy if we ever had a football program like ECU's.

[zippy5]

If our 2 "meh" teams were Tulsa (NCAA at-large) and ECU (5-7 in 2015 being their worst record since 2004, 2 straight wins over VT).. Well, sign me up

[Captain Kangaroo]

26 minutes ago, Steve1982 said:

1-AA in football would be perfect for a move to the Missouri Valley Conference. That is what football attendance dictates. And it would be great for a basketball team that certainly has had success to move to a multi team NCAA tournament league. 

Regarding football attendance - I contend football attendance is irrelevant to-date because:

 

1.) We've sucked to-date.

2.) We've had poor Athletic Department leadership throughout InfoCision's existence.

 

Give Bowden a couple years of winning before using the football attendance as a reason to drop divisions. And Williams a few years to see if he brings to the table what Wistercill did not.

 

Regarding basketball: What's easier for the Zips -

 

1.) Finishing 1st or 2nd in the MVC?

2.) Winning the MAC?

 

The MAC is the easier road to the NCAA tourney. And the NIT.

[kreed5120]

32 minutes ago, Steve1982 said:

1-AA in football would be perfect for a move to the Missouri Valley Conference. That is what football attendance dictates. And it would be great for a basketball team that certainly has had success to move to a multi team NCAA tournament league. 

 

The biggest argument to play FCS over FBS is to get out of the athletics arms race. We are already committed to paying for a stadium and a field house regardless if we stay at FBS, drop down to FCS, or just drop football entirely. The cost of 20 extra scholarships and higher coaches salary to play at FBS level instead of FCS level is more than offset by guarantee games and TV money. You also have to take into account the additional cost of travel to play in MVC over MAC.

 

I don't feel Wichita State will be staying in the MVC much longer. Without them in the conference, I'd concede the MVC is still a better basketball conference, but I don't feel it would be that much better to be worth our time to make what would just be slightly above a lateral move.

[skip-zip]

Just to add to the discussion about MAC costs vs. cost in another conference......

 

I don't know if I've seen anyone yet who has accounted for the increase in revenue.  With a higher perceived conference affiliation (whether experts agree with it or not), more recognized opponents, and the notion that Akron is "moving up" in the national picture, more internal revenue is going to follow.  TV revenue, ticket sales, sponsorships, and donations should all get a big boost in this situation. 

[ZippyRulz]

16 hours ago, wadszip said:

 

The Big Ten signing a six-year deal with Fox is a sign that it believes crap is about to blow up once the ACC can't deliver on its conference network and those schools would be able to get out of their Grant of Rights agreement. If the Big Ten starts raiding the ACC....

 

 

Explanatory article:

 

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/big-ten-television-deal-could-set-table-for-next-conference-realignment/15652491/

 

Edited April 29, 2016 by ZippyRulz

[ZippyRulz]

On 4/28/2016 at 0:48 PM, Captain Kangaroo said:

Our President says he'd consider moving football to 1-AA. He openly wishes we had a smaller stadium. Basketball hasn't won an NCAA tourney game of any type in nearly a decade.

 

Enjoy the MAC.

 

He maybe wouldn't have built "that" stadium, but since it's there now I think he would be glad to get into the A(A/C)C. He's not anti-athletics.

 

Edited April 29, 2016 by ZippyRulz