Captain Kangaroo Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said: Funny how the Zip fan base finds 7-5 acceptable in football yet that winning percentage in basketball would make them lose their minds. Not saying I wouldn't be happy with a 7-5 football record after what we've been subjected to, but the perspectives sure are different. Love those 20-win seasons in basketball. Om nom nom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipsoutsider Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 25 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said: Funny how the Zip fan base finds 7-5 acceptable in football yet that winning percentage in basketball would make them lose their minds. Not saying I wouldn't be happy with a 7-5 football record after what we've been subjected to, but the perspectives sure are different. How many 7-5 records have the Zips had since going Div 1A? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 19 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said: Love those 20-win seasons in basketball. Om nom nom. Being able to beat the cupcake is much better than being the cupcake like our football team has been for the past 10 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, zipsoutsider said: How many 7-5 records have the Zips had since going Div 1A? And how many 20+ wins seasons did we have in basketball from the period of us joining the MAC until we hired Dambrot? The right coach can make all the difference. Edited October 23, 2017 by kreed5120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mivid12 Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) level of expectation i suspect...football wise i'd take 7-5, 8-4 & getting high level talent thru transfers all day....as far as basketball it remains unfulfilled sans a ncaa tourney run Edited October 23, 2017 by mivid12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 hours ago, kreed5120 said: There are two sides to every story. I've seen posters making excuses for why we lose. We gave up 48 points and 626 yards and there was a poster who stated the game would have been closer had a few bounces gone our way. Seriously?! These nay-sayers, as you like to call them, are people who want to see Akron succeed. They want to see Akron be perennial MAC contenders the same way NIU and Toledo are. What frustrates me is the apathy among Zips fans. It seems to me many posters are content just being a 6 or 7 win team who when the Zips lose by 3+ touchdowns says oh well that was against a good team. I want to be the top dog. I've been critical of Bowden as I've lost faith in him being able to be that guy who elevates Akron to those heights. I will be a happy guy if I'm proved wrong and I assume those other nay-sayers will feel the same. I don't feel I was critical of last weeks win but I did state that we weren't going to win too many games where we are out gained 2:1 in yards. More times than not the outcome will be closer to the Toledo game than what it was for the WMU game. There is an easy way to silence the nay-sayers, win and win often. I don't agree. There aren't always two true sides to a story. Some sides are greater than others, simply because there is logical consistency and objectivity. Go back and look at this post where we made predictions on the season. We've preformed better than most of the nay-sayers predicted, and the nay-sayers are STILL crying like babies. That's logically inconsistent. At the very least they should be holding reservation and saying "hey we're not as bad as I thought...let me wait a couple of more games" instead of finding every reason to be mad. Now this could change by the end of the season. But you don't get to say both sides are equal. They aren't. We are objectively better than most people thought we would be at this point in the season. So the snowflakes can stop melting until there's actually something worth melting-down over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 10 hours ago, kreed5120 said: I don't feel I was critical of last weeks win but I did state that we weren't going to win too many games where we are out gained 2:1 in yards. More times than not the outcome will be closer to the Toledo game than what it was for the WMU game. I specifically pointed out the massive yardage difference in the WMU game, and got a couple of "well, who won the game?" kinds of posts in response. Maybe it was a harbinger of things to come. I agree with you. Giving up a ton of yards can't be ignored just because you somehow ended up on the winning side of the scoreboard. I would also expect 2 more Toledo-like outcomes if the next 2 opponents somehow amassed over 1,000 yards of offensive production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipsoutsider Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 But I also recall tgat some said we could not beat WMU with only 14 points. It's pretty clear that no one else in the MAC is where Toledo is, right now and we are still in a place where we will match up differently against different teams. Toledo is at a level where they can be the same team, every week. I think we also continue to improve, each week. It might be harder to find our improvements last week, but I felt like things started to click for Chapman and Bickley which will be crucial down the stretch for us. Last year, it was a completely different feel, where we grew worse every week as the injuries piled up. We played a relatively clean game against Toledo and did not appear to really gain any new injuries. At this point if the season, out health bodes well for us. I have been one wanting to see more of Sands and Stewart all year and we did see them against Toledo. Unfortunately, it proved my own theory, that you try to carefully get them meaningful reps but do so sparingly because they are more likely to lead to turnovers, which both did with Sands fumbling and Stewart tipping a pass that led to a pick. Neither impacted the final outcome and let's hope they were both meaningfullearning experiences for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 13 hours ago, Balsy said: I don't agree. There aren't always two true sides to a story. Some sides are greater than others, simply because there is logical consistency and objectivity. Go back and look at this post where we made predictions on the season. We've preformed better than most of the nay-sayers predicted, and the nay-sayers are STILL crying like babies. That's logically inconsistent. At the very least they should be holding reservation and saying "hey we're not as bad as I thought...let me wait a couple of more games" instead of finding every reason to be mad. Now this could change by the end of the season. But you don't get to say both sides are equal. They aren't. We are objectively better than most people thought we would be at this point in the season. So the snowflakes can stop melting until there's actually something worth melting-down over. Of course you don't agree. I've seen your posts all over this board. Your opinion is somehow always rights and everyone else is always wrong. There isn't much objectivity in that... We may have outperformed expectations up to this point this season but that's only because expectations were incredibly low to start with. My and many others expectations when Bowden was hired 5 1/2 years ago was that we'd be competing with the Toledo's of the world to be the top dog in the MAC by now. By those standards he's failing. Perhaps you are content consistently having a 5-7 to 7-5 football team. Others and I want to see 9 and 10+ win seasons. We play in the MAC East which is perhaps the worst division in all of FBS. Getting to 9 wins should definitely be feasible. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted October 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 18 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said: Funny how the Zip fan base finds 7-5 acceptable in football, yet that winning percentage in basketball would make them lose their minds. One reason is competition level. The football team faces a lot of NFL talent. The basketball team hasn't had this issue since the 90's. PS Toledo favored by 26 points Thursday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipsoutsider Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 24 minutes ago, kreed5120 said: Of course you don't agree. I've seen your posts all over this board. Your opinion is somehow always rights and everyone else is always wrong. There isn't much objectivity in that... We may have outperformed expectations up to this point this season but that's only because expectations were incredibly low to start with. My and many others expectations when Bowden was hired 5 1/2 years ago was that we'd be competing with the Toledo's of the world to be the top dog in the MAC by now. By those standards he's failing. Perhaps you are content consistently having a 5-7 to 7-5 football team. Others and I want to see 9 and 10+ win seasons. We play in the MAC East which is perhaps the worst division in all of FBS. Getting to 9 wins should definitely be feasible. It is quite conceivable that we will either match or exceed our best regular season record as a D1 program. It's not like we are headed towards failure. If we win out, during regular season and win a bowl game, we will have 9 wins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 I'd objectively say that we're 1 game better than expected thus far (the Western Michigan road win). Hard to say if reasonable expectations will be met when we hit the 12th game. Anyone who predicted 4 wins will probably be wrong. Those predicting an 8 win season will almost certainly be wrong at this point too. I guess it's all a matter of exactly what each individual person expected. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 32 minutes ago, kreed5120 said: Of course you don't agree. I've seen your posts all over this board. Your opinion is somehow always rights and everyone else is always wrong. There isn't much objectivity in that... We may have outperformed expectations up to this point this season but that's only because expectations were incredibly low to start with. My and many others expectations when Bowden was hired 5 1/2 years ago was that we'd be competing with the Toledo's of the world to be the top dog in the MAC by now. By those standards he's failing. Perhaps you are content consistently having a 5-7 to 7-5 football team. Others and I want to see 9 and 10+ win seasons. We play in the MAC East which is perhaps the worst division in all of FBS. Getting to 9 wins should definitely be feasible. Of course everyone's going to believe their own opinion is right. But not all opinions are created equal. I at least attempt to be consistent and give a thorough explanation as to why I believe what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, skip-zip said: I'd objectively say that we're 1 game better than expected thus far (the Western Michigan road win). Hard to say if reasonable expectations will be met when we hit the 12th game. Anyone who predicted 4 wins will probably be wrong. Those predicting an 8 win season will almost certainly be wrong at this point too. I guess it's all a matter of exactly what each individual person expected. This is the kind of statement that is logically consistent. It isn't time to crown the Zips MAC E Champions, and it's not time to declare us as awful failures. Yet it seems some here try to make excuses for those who want to declare the Zips as awful failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 hour ago, kreed5120 said: We may have outperformed expectations up to this point this season but that's only because expectations were incredibly low to start with. My and many others expectations when Bowden was hired 5 1/2 years ago was that we'd be competing with the Toledo's of the world to be the top dog in the MAC by now. By those standards he's failing. Perhaps you are content consistently having a 5-7 to 7-5 football team. Others and I want to see 9 and 10+ win seasons. We play in the MAC East which is perhaps the worst division in all of FBS. Getting to 9 wins should definitely be feasible. Two star recruits can turn around a basketball program in one season. Turning around an 85 student football program takes time. Especially turning around one that was the absolute worst in D-1A. If Bowden would have chosen from Day 1 to recruit freshmen, redshirt them and slowly build a program, he would have been fired within 3-4 years max. You don't win with 18 and 19 year olds. And no AD in today's world waits 4 years to become competitive. So Bowden chose to heavily utilize transfers in the beginning. And we became relatively competitive in a short time. And being relatively competitive allowed us to get a nice recruiting class this past February, and redshirt most of them. For the first time, we have some depth, and can let players develop. This year's recruiting class, by seemingly everyone's estimation, is Bowden's best to-date. The bulk of those kids will be redshirted, and we have the makings of a deep, year-in-year-out competitive upper-tier MAC program. I see us winning 3 of our remaining 4 games. 7-5 would be a great season considering our original circumstances, and the future would look bright too. Our program is now appealing to some decent HS talent. That's my view. Like it or not. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, zipsoutsider said: If we win out, during regular season and win a bowl game, we will have 9 wins. And I would love to see this happen. It would certainly silence many of the critics for the time being. Like I said the way to silence nay-sayers is winning and winning often. I imagine very few people would be critical of a 9 win season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Balsy said: Of course everyone's going to believe their own opinion is right. But not all opinions are created equal. I at least attempt to be consistent and give a thorough explanation as to why I believe what I do. As did I in my detailed explanation I provided you, but it still doesn't change the fact you're here claiming your opinion is more right. We're just are using different measurable. Edited October 24, 2017 by kreed5120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Adams Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 11 hours ago, skip-zip said: I specifically pointed out the massive yardage difference in the WMU game, and got a couple of "well, who won the game?" kinds of posts in response. Maybe it was a harbinger of things to come. I agree with you. Giving up a ton of yards can't be ignored just because you somehow ended up on the winning side of the scoreboard. I would also expect 2 more Toledo-like outcomes if the next 2 opponents somehow amassed over 1,000 yards of offensive production. The stats from the Toledo game unlike the stats from the WMU game don't lie. Bowden said it: we got whipped defensively,offensively and physically! Brad Detweiler said it also: the Akron defense 'got exposed'. Did we learn anything we didn't already know or suspect? No! The offense can't CONSISTENTLY move the ball much less score enough points. There is little running game. And, the passing game is woefully inconsistent. The defense can't consistently stop the run. Even in the WMU game it gave up lots of yard on the ground. As I said before,the Corner Backs are the strength of the defense. Time to move on to Buffalo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 hours ago, kreed5120 said: As did I in my detailed explanation I provided you, but it still doesn't change the fact you're here claiming your opinion is more right. We're just are using different measurable. That's because mine objectively is. Look, there are different models of the atom: none of them are wrong, but some are definitely more right than others. JJ Thomson (discoverer of Electrons) wasn't wrong...Rutherford was just more right. And even Rutherford's model wasn't the whole picture. But to equate all views as equal is inherently dishonest. Because they aren't. I was more being critical of the point that "all opinions are created equal" because that's a load of crap. They aren't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckzip Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 In my opinion, this who has the bigger wang contest is stupid. And my opinion is the most right. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 20 hours ago, Lee Adams said: Even in the WMU game it gave up lots of yard on the ground. And 426 total. I felt like that was pretty notable, considering the poor weather conditions. When you add in the Toledo massacre, I just hope that we find that these were just two good offense performances by two good offensive teams. But regardless, that needs to end this week. And if the last two games are any indication, Buffalo is struggling to run the football, and may have difficulty throwing if the wet/cold weather forecast holds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 13 hours ago, Buckzip said: In my opinion, this who has the bigger wang contest is stupid. And my opinion is the most right. You're cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckzip Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, Balsy said: You're cool. That is my excuse as to why I can't enter the contest. When it is warm though, I am right there with the best of them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 44 minutes ago, Buckzip said: That is my excuse as to why I can't enter the contest. When it is warm though, I am right there with the best of them. I mean, you should be fine, cause with global warming and all....so perhaps you're not as...competitive...as you think you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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