Game 7—@Western Michigan

[Dr Z]

You can rewatch game here:

http://www.wmubroncos.com/watch/?Live=17&type=Live

 

 

[Section210Zip]

That does bring up one question for me. How can WMU do a game broadcast all them selves with multiple cameras and we cant even show replays on our scoreboard?

[K92]

Fire Lester

Edit:  I just read all 44 pages of the game thread too.  It’s interesting and some of it sounds familiar.

Edited October 16, 2017 by K92

[AyYo]

1 hour ago, Section210Zip said:

That does bring up one question for me. How can WMU do a game broadcast all them selves with multiple cameras and we cant even show replays on our scoreboard?

I'm pretty sure we do show replays on our scoreboard. At least we did last time I was at a game. 

[72 Roo]

20 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

Unless the Zips unexpectedly tank, he is not going anywhere.

 

Milwee called a very good game, today, and as a matter of fact has called good games since the conference schedule began.

 

We got our points whike the weather was a littke better and then kept it mainly on the ground in the second half when the weather turned miserable. Seems logical to me. 

 

I have had issues with playcalling in the past, but honestly, the playcalling has just been fine since we hit MAC play. 

 

Why would yoy throw the ball? Because we had a lot of time left on the clock and you needed a first down. Our run game was not that convincing at that point You put the ball in the hands of the 5th year QB. 

 

Interestingly enough, the next series when we did not throw on 3rd, we had ZN members calling for passes. You have to retain some element of surprise, even when playing conservatively. 

 

Oh, by the way, we won today.

Because I voiced an opinion that was against the competence of our OC in no way means I am not thrilled with our victory over a very respected conference opponent. To hint otherwise is just picking a fight. I'll assume that was not your intention. I still do not agree with your argument. Our OC shut down our offense in the second half and showed no creativity when the pass was not working. As for third and two, no team in the world with bad weather needs to throw. If we can't get two yards in two plays we have a bigger problem. Remember we were on their 34 and if the run failed we were not giving up poor field position. When the longer pass (15+ yards) is not working there are other ways to slow their pass rush i.e. screen, counters, trap counters, throwing to the TE, throwing to a back, student body right or left w/QB running, end around, etc. We primarily used the draw or slant. We can do better.

 

If TB keeps his job and that means Milwee continues, so be it. Wilson and Miller will make the best decision they can and I will support them. There is much to like about this team and hope grows for a good future. I want that to continue. I just see a new OC as an area of improvement. If you and others feel otherwise, good for you. At the end of the day we all want the Zips to be outstanding.

[K92]

33 minutes ago, 72 Roo said:

Because I voiced an opinion that was against the competence of our OC in no way means I am not thrilled with our victory over a very respected conference opponent. To hint otherwise is just picking a fight. I'll assume that was not your intention. I still do not agree with your argument. Our OC shut down our offense in the second half and showed no creativity when the pass was not working. As for third and two, no team in the world with bad weather needs to throw. If we can't get two yards in two plays we have a bigger problem. Remember we were on their 34 and if the run failed we were not giving up poor field position. When the longer pass (15+ yards) is not working there are other ways to slow their pass rush i.e. screen, counters, trap counters, throwing to the TE, throwing to a back, student body right or left w/QB running, end around, etc. We primarily used the draw or slant. We can do better.

 

If TB keeps his job and that means Milwee continues, so be it. Wilson and Miller will make the best decision they can and I will support them. There is much to like about this team and hope grows for a good future. I want that to continue. I just see a new OC as an area of improvement. If you and others feel otherwise, good for you. At the end of the day we all want the Zips to be outstanding.

Well said 72.  You are much better at getting this sentiment across than I am.

[zipsoutsider]

45 minutes ago, 72 Roo said:

Because I voiced an opinion that was against the competence of our OC in no way means I am not thrilled with our victory over a very respected conference opponent. To hint otherwise is just picking a fight. I'll assume that was not your intention. I still do not agree with your argument. Our OC shut down our offense in the second half and showed no creativity when the pass was not working. As for third and two, no team in the world with bad weather needs to throw. If we can't get two yards in two plays we have a bigger problem. Remember we were on their 34 and if the run failed we were not giving up poor field position. When the longer pass (15+ yards) is not working there are other ways to slow their pass rush i.e. screen, counters, trap counters, throwing to the TE, throwing to a back, student body right or left w/QB running, end around, etc. We primarily used the draw or slant. We can do better.

 

If TB keeps his job and that means Milwee continues, so be it. Wilson and Miller will make the best decision they can and I will support them. There is much to like about this team and hope grows for a good future. I want that to continue. I just see a new OC as an area of improvement. If you and others feel otherwise, good for you. At the end of the day we all want the Zips to be outstanding.

I am glad you are thrilled - comment was not targeted at you, or anyone, specifically, but the overall lack of ability of some ZN members to enjoy a win.

[72 Roo]

Thanks to both K92 and Zipsoutsider. Beat Toledo. I'll be there.

[skip-zip]

1 hour ago, 72 Roo said:

I still do not agree with your argument. Our OC shut down our offense in the second half and showed no creativity when the pass was not working.

 

I'm glad you commented.  I was really scratching my head when I read that "Milwee called a good game" comment as well.  

 

It wasn't just an anemic 2nd half.  In the first half, after the 80 yard drive and 27 yard drive (following the interception return) for touchdowns, we punted and gained very few yards on the other drives.  

 

I'm certainly not patting my OC on the back for a 215 yard performance.

[zipsoutsider]

44 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

I'm glad you commented.  I was really scratching my head when I read that "Milwee called a good game" comment as well.  

 

It wasn't just an anemic 2nd half.  In the first half, after the 80 yard drive and 27 yard drive (following the interception return) for touchdowns, we punted and gained very few yards on the other drives.  

 

I'm certainly not patting my OC on the back for a 215 yard performance.

Horrible weather conditions and the lead, you call a more conservative game. Creativity in wet, windy conditions can be a good recipe for turnovers. 215 yards was enough for us to win. The goal is not to be the most creative or to rack up the most offensive yards, it's to put more points on the board than your oppoenent.

 

FWIW, we had several good passes go through receivers hands, again, and Letui's penalties kill a drive and we still won. We have those creative plays in our pocket for when we need them, in November and December.

 

It's fair to say Milwee did not call a very creative game, but he didn't call a bad game, either. There was enough variety to keep WMU on their heels (play action that resulted in defensive holding in Q4, 3rd down draw, wildcat, etc.)

 

I think we will likely see Booker play a bigger role as he gets more experience but you break these freshmen in gradually to maximize on what they do well and to minimize where they still need to improve. We have been trying to expand the role of the TE for 2 years and MTB and N. Williams but they have been hurt more than they have been healthy. As Booker develops, he seems to be our best shot at realizing expansion in this role.

 

You can feel to disagree, but we got the lead early and played more conservatively and that protected us from more mistakes. I have no problem with that. We hit the right balance and it led to a "W".

[zipsoutsider]

FWIW, I am not the only one who seems to approve if the game plan. 

 

"Akron executed an excellent game plan

So much credit is due to Terry Bowden and his Zips. They did their homework and played the smartest game plan possible against the struggling Broncos.

Akron entered the game outscoring opponents 148-144. Bowden knew that the Zips would be fighting an tight, uphill battle. The plan seemed to be to score early and run the clock out. Akron did just that. All of Akron’s 14 points were scored in the first 20 minutes. They had no need to score more." - Five Things Learned: Akron 14, Western Michigan 13

[UA1987]

39 minutes ago, zipsoutsider said:

Horrible weather conditions and the lead, you call a more conservative game. Creativity in wet, windy conditions can be a good recipe for turnovers. 215 yards was enough for us to win. The goal is not to be the most creative or to rack up the most offensive yards, it's to put more points on the board than your oppoenent.

 

FWIW, we had several good passes go through receivers hands, again, and Letui's penalties kill a drive and we still won. We have those creative plays in our pocket for when we need them, in November and December.

 

It's fair to say Milwee did not call a very creative game, but he didn't call a bad game, either. There was enough variety to keep WMU on their heels (play action that resulted in defensive holding in Q4, 3rd down draw, wildcat, etc.)

 

I think we will likely see Booker play a bigger role as he gets more experience but you break these freshmen in gradually to maximize on what they do well and to minimize where they still need to improve. We have been trying to expand the role of the TE for 2 years and MTB and N. Williams but they have been hurt more than they have been healthy. As Booker develops, he seems to be our best shot at realizing expansion in this role.

 

You can feel to disagree, but we got the lead early and played more conservatively and that protected us from more mistakes. I have no problem with that. We hit the right balance and it led to a "W".

We got lucky at the end when their guy Ernsberger dropped a pass at the 32 with enough time for Western to try a 49 field goal. We should have found a way for one more 1st down so that last WMU drive did not happen and not run up the gut, which was close to taking a knee as their defense was bottled up in the middle. I do have a problem with that as I don't like to rely on luck to win, but hey we won so great!. I think Milwee (ha ha my spell check tried to call him milkweed) did not call a run outside on our last possession as he was concerned that Edwards or Morgan might get pushed out of bounds, but I think that was a bad decision.         

Edited October 17, 2017 by UA1987

[72 Roo]

2 hours ago, skip-zip said:

 

I'm glad you commented.  I was really scratching my head when I read that "Milwee called a good game" comment as well.  

 

It wasn't just an anemic 2nd half.  In the first half, after the 80 yard drive and 27 yard drive (following the interception return) for touchdowns, we punted and gained very few yards on the other drives.  

 

I'm certainly not patting my OC on the back for a 215 yard performance.

Thanks Skip. As said before, I feel this is one area of coaching that can be improved. There are many on this board who saw the game and very much agree. Our team and university deserve better. But that's up to TB and his bosses. I hope he (our OC) over-achieves at Toledo.

[zipsoutsider]

48 minutes ago, UA1987 said:

We got lucky at the end when their guy Ernsberger dropped a pass at the 32 with enough time for Western to try a 49 field goal. We should have found a way for one more 1st down so that last WMU drive did not happen and not run up the gut, which was close to taking a knee as their defense was bottled up in the middle. I do have a problem with that as I don't like to rely on luck to win, but hey we won so great!. I think Milwee (ha ha my spell check tried to call him milkweed) did not call a run outside on our last possession as he was concerned that Edwards or Morgan might get pushed out of bounds, but I think that was a bad decision.         

 

4:00ish on the clock:

3rd down and 8 - we run a pass play that was essentially a free play as they jumped - 

3rd down and 3 - Tommy runs it to the outside

 

3:25ish

1st down - up the gut - maybe a yard

 

3:20

2nd down - 7 yard gain

 

3:14

3rd down - play action, pass interference results in 1st down (without interference, could have led to TD - wide open space and Coney had the defender beat)

 

3:06

1st down up the gut, gain of 1

 

2: 26 -

2nd down up the gut, gain of 2

 

1:38

3rd down - run to the outside  a couple of yards

 

53:00

4th down - illegal procedure - not a big deal because they could have just easily taken a delay of game, here.

 

48:3 - 4th down, punt

 

Your offense has essentially done with you wanted them to do and wound the clock down below 1 minute. WMU has been pitiful in the red zone and WMU has no timeouts left. The WMU passing game has not been particularly strong but they have had a little momentum. You have to decide which unit you think has the best chance to win the game for you. Your punter has been doing well pinning teams back inside of the 10 frequently this season and not doing badly during this game.  We almost got a running into the kicker call on that, punt, too. The punt was not great, but no return, either. They go with the D and were successful.

 

Just because you disagree with the decision, doesn't make it a bad decision. 

 

Also, it could have been a different story altogether had WMU gone for 2 and succeeded after they scored their TD. WMU coached very poorly, most of the day. They should have trusted Franklin to run it about 10-12 more times than they did. We could contain but not really stop him. I will attribute their play calling to playing from behind. 

 

 

 

 

 

[skip-zip]

9 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

Horrible weather conditions

 

Western Michigan, playing under the same weather conditions, managed to accumulate 426 yards.  

 

Summary:

After that game, I think it was very justifiable for someone to feel much more positive about the progress of our defense, and much less positive about the progress of our offense.  

 

Western's coach was even willing to give Akron possession with 5 min. left, and trailing by 1, knowing they could get the ball back again.  

Edited October 17, 2017 by skip-zip

[zippy5]

45 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

Western Michigan, playing under the same weather conditions, managed to accumulate 426 yards.  

 

Summary:

After that game, I think it was very justifiable for someone to feel much more positive about the progress of our defense, and much less positive about the progress of our offense.  

 

Western's coach was even willing to give Akron possession with 5 min. left, and trailing by 1, knowing they could get the ball back again.  

And they lost

[UA1987]

10 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

 

4:00ish on the clock:

3rd down and 8 - we run a pass play that was essentially a free play as they jumped - 

3rd down and 3 - Tommy runs it to the outside

 

3:25ish

1st down - up the gut - maybe a yard

 

3:20

2nd down - 7 yard gain

 

3:14

3rd down - play action, pass interference results in 1st down (without interference, could have led to TD - wide open space and Coney had the defender beat)

 

3:06

1st down up the gut, gain of 1

 

2: 26 -

2nd down up the gut, gain of 2

 

1:38

3rd down - run to the outside  a couple of yards

 

53:00

4th down - illegal procedure - not a big deal because they could have just easily taken a delay of game, here.

 

48:3 - 4th down, punt

 

Your offense has essentially done with you wanted them to do and wound the clock down below 1 minute. WMU has been pitiful in the red zone and WMU has no timeouts left. The WMU passing game has not been particularly strong but they have had a little momentum. You have to decide which unit you think has the best chance to win the game for you. Your punter has been doing well pinning teams back inside of the 10 frequently this season and not doing badly during this game.  We almost got a running into the kicker call on that, punt, too. The punt was not great, but no return, either. They go with the D and were successful.

 

Just because you disagree with the decision, doesn't make it a bad decision. 

 

Also, it could have been a different story altogether had WMU gone for 2 and succeeded after they scored their TD. WMU coached very poorly, most of the day. They should have trusted Franklin to run it about 10-12 more times than they did. We could contain but not really stop him. I will attribute their play calling to playing from behind. 

 

 

 

 

 

Wrong - what every coach should have wanted, and what every player and Zips fan did want was to totally run out the clock by obtaining a first down on that last series. By leaving time on the clock we left a bullet in their chamber. Bad final series up by only 1. You would have thought would have learned something after the Troy game.    

Edited October 17, 2017 by UA1987

[skip-zip]

1 hour ago, zippy5 said:

And they lost

 

That was in response to a post indicating that the weather conditions were an excuse for lack of offensive production.  

 

Both teams played under the same conditions.  

[Ham]

I think the biggest blunder was throwing clear across the field on 3rd & 2 in 2 down territory.  Even if we run twice and fail, there would have been 90 seconds less on the clock.

[zippy5]

38 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

That was in response to a post indicating that the weather conditions were an excuse for lack of offensive production.  

 

Both teams played under the same conditions.  

My point was one team had a lack of production and it wasn't the Zips

[zipsoutsider]

42 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

My point was one team had a lack of production and it wasn't the Zips

This ^ - this is the point, exactly. WMU was 1-4 in the red zone. 

 

1 hour ago, Ham said:

I think the biggest blunder was throwing clear across the field on 3rd & 2 in 2 down territory.  Even if we run twice and fail, there would have been 90 seconds less on the clock.

I am not sure which play you are referring to. There was a cross field throw on a second down with just under 10 minutes (2nd to last offensive series for us.) That was a pass Bickley should have caught - it was a good pass. Are you saying we should have stopped passing with 10:00 left? Woodson completes that particular play, quite often. If this is not the play you are referring to, you would have to go back to the 3rd quarter to find another play like that.

 

1 hour ago, skip-zip said:

 

That was in response to a post indicating that the weather conditions were an excuse for lack of offensive production.  

 

Both teams played under the same conditions.  

Weather was not cited as an excuse, but as a reason you generally play more conservative football. 

[NWAkron]

Who is this Milwee person? 

 

I watched the last few minutes, and I just thought we could have had a Stanford/Cal style disaster with all our players celebrating.  The clock on the video feed kept jumping around so I couldn't tell how much time was really left.  But what a great win on the road.  I guess my answer to all this debate is that winning programs get some luck losing programs never do.  

[Balsy]

5 hours ago, skip-zip said:

Western Michigan, playing under the same weather conditions, managed to accumulate 426 yards.   

 

And only 13 points...

[Balsy]

1 hour ago, NWAkron said:

Who is this Milwee person? 

 

I told you in an earlier post, you may have missed it.  AJ Milwee is the Offensive Coordinator for the Zips.

 

He was brought in as a QB coach when Bowden was first hired 6 seasons ago, and was upgraded to Offensive Coordinator in year 2.  The offense ran a lot faster/up-tempo when Bowden was HC/OC in his first season, or it at least appeared too.  But that was also a 1-11 team so who knows.  Needless to say a lot of people don't like him.

 

I'm of the opinion he's here as long as Bowden is, and I've always felt like Bowden is grooming him to be the replacement when Bowden decides to retire.

[Dr Z]

12 minutes ago, Balsy said:

I've always felt like Bowden is grooming him to be the replacement when Bowden decides to retire.

What gives you that indication?