Game 2: UAB Blazers @ Akron – 12 pm

[kreed5120]

3 hours ago, Balsy said:

 

I mean, just go look at the reasons you don't like Bowden, and then understand it's the same reason people started not liking Dambrot.  If it's a perceived hypocrisy or logical inconsistency on our part...than it's a perceived hypocrisy and logical inconsistency on your part.

Dambrot was here for 13 years, and was 5 seasons removed from the last time it had any real success.  Bowden was here for 7 years, and was removed 1 season removed from any real success (a MAC Championship appearance).  It's really not hard to see how something can fester over 5-years as opposed to 1.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Your definition for basketball success is that Akron had to win the title game while Akron football just had to make it to the title game. Dambrot made it 9 times to the title game, winning 3 times. Bowden made it to the title game 1 time, winning 0 times. Honestly, I don't see how the two are comparable at all.

[Lee Adams]

3 hours ago, Balsy said:

 

And Here's the question that matters: do you think that Tom Arth, with his illustrious career of coaching D-III John Carrol for a handful of years and two years of coaching at FCS Chattanooga to a 9-13 record; can out recruit Terry Bowden (who has a 25-year coaching history with connections to Florida...whom's father is a legendary College Football coach).  And that's not even mentioning transfers...

I'd like to smoke WHATEVER it is everyone else is smoking who believes that Tom Arth will be able to put together a BETTER team talent wise than Terry Bowden.  It doesn't make any, remote, logical sense.  This isn't to say the Bowden teams were packed with talent...I just find it extremely hard to believe that a coach from John Carroll will be able to out recruit a Bowden.

I guess we will find out in a couple of years won't we?

[Lee Adams]

21 hours ago, NWAkron said:

That was a fire Arth moment.  Why?  Why? 4th and 1...throw it to Lee 5 yards behind line of scrimmage.  What could go wrong?

That UAB coach is a lot like that Cherry Bowl coach...hes going to run up the score on Akron 

Isn't Zagorski the OC also? Was he calling plays too? Would like to know because there were a couple of critical situations where the calls seemed puzzling. But,some of that is due to the poor O-line play and apparent lack of a 'big' back who can grind out a couple of yards when needed. Oh where is Grice when you need him?

[NWAkron]

6 minutes ago, Lee Adams said:

Isn't Zagorski the OC also? Was he calling plays too? Would like to know because there were a couple of critical situations where the calls seemed puzzling. But,some of that is due to the poor O-line play and apparent lack of a 'big' back who can grind out a couple of yards when needed. Oh where is Grice when you need him?

That was just my venting from the stands.    Maybe Milwee was in the booth under an assumed name?  I thought that was an opportunity for Kato to run it.  I watched Arth a lot and liked his enthusiasm.  When the defense was on the field, he was over huddled with the offense.  After that sequence, I did see Arth go over to the big guy (assume that's  OC Zagorski) and have a few brief words.

[Lee Adams]

1 hour ago, kreed5120 said:

Where are you inferring that? The program has stunk for the 30+ years that its been in FBS and that includes the 7 years that Bowden coached it. If you want to go ahead and say that Bowden was the best coach in those 30 years that's fine and I won't argue that point, but that's like calling someone the tallest midget. The guy went 35-52 overall and 23-33 in MAC play. He's not gods gift to the Akron football program like some people are trying to make him out to be. 

I went back on a website not affiliated with Akron to get the historical win totals of the last 3 Akro HC's. They would be Bowden,Brookhart and Owens. Since Brookhart was here 6 seasons I took the final 6 season win totals for each coach Bowden-34(I left out Bowden's 1-11 record his first season. If I had started counting 6 seasons there he had I believe 31 wins);  Brookhart-30 and Owens -32. Obviously Owens was the longest tenured of the 3. Shoot, Owens got fired after going 7-5 I believe. But,point is throw a blanket over those numbers! None of these coaches have put up significantly more wins than the others. Somebody mentioned this elsewhere,the program 'is what it is' now and what it has been for years. There have been all sorts of on and off the field factors for that.

By the way,I didn't go back to check Jim Dennison's record when Akron was D2. But I would guess in 6 seasons it was better than these numbers. Always thought he should have gotten a shot to take the program at least to 1-AA but alas we will never know what might have been.

[UA1987]

18 hours ago, ZipsVoice said:

Wasn't listed on the game roster today, so not sure he's still with the team.

This game was another hard one to watch. I'm betting Arth is a great person and coach and will build this team into a winner - down the road. That wait is a problem for me (long time Zips fan) as I've said previously. It seems Arth had to destroy some things this year in order to begin remaking the Zips. Was there a culture problem that Bowden held together some how, I don't know, but Arth's my way or the highway or the bench mentality has seemingly set the Zips back. We have lost people that were highly recruited (ex. - big linebacker to Miami - probable 2020 replacement for Lako) and others are sitting the bench (examples - White, Lubin, etc.)  because they, maybe, have not bought into the new program yet. I would have preferred a Fleck or Bill Clark type that would have come into win now or just stay with Bowden and require a change at OC (provide some funds to get one). If the Zips would have gotten a good OC then maybe they would have a transitional head coach (with Stroud being a candidate too) that would not have had to blow things up after Bowden left Akron. I dislike all the quietness and secrecy about these coaching decisions and about who's sitting as a player and why.

 

Anyhoot - go get the Chips!      

 

                       

Edited September 8, 2019 by UA1987

[ZippyRulz]

48 minutes ago, Lee Adams said:

I went back on a website not affiliated with Akron to get the historical win totals of the last 3 Akro HC's. They would be Bowden,Brookhart and Owens. Since Brookhart was here 6 seasons I took the final 6 season win totals for each coach Bowden-34(I left out Bowden's 1-11 record his first season. If I had started counting 6 seasons there he had I believe 31 wins);  Brookhart-30 and Owens -32. Obviously Owens was the longest tenured of the 3. Shoot, Owens got fired after going 7-5 I believe. But,point is throw a blanket over those numbers! None of these coaches have put up significantly more wins than the others. Somebody mentioned this elsewhere,the program 'is what it is' now and what it has been for years. There have been all sorts of on and off the field factors for that.

By the way,I didn't go back to check Jim Dennison's record when Akron was D2. But I would guess in 6 seasons it was better than these numbers. Always thought he should have gotten a shot to take the program at least to 1-AA but alas we will never know what might have been.

 

Dennison did coach us as 1-AA in the OVC days 1980-85.

Edited September 8, 2019 by ZippyRulz

[zipsoutsider]

Let the Arth excuses commence...sorry, he's on the clock, now. The recruits had little to do with the lack of discipline and overall lack of gameplan. He seems in over his head.

[Lee Adams]

17 minutes ago, ZippyRulz said:

 

Dennison did coach us as 1-AA in the OVC days 1980-85.

You are right. Thanks for the catch.The site I looked at started with Faust. Dennison coached when Akron was in the Mid Continent!!? 1978-1979-They went 12-10 under Dennison. From 1980-1985 they were in the OVC. During those 6 seasons Dennison went-3-7-1;5-5;6-5;8-3;4-7;8-4.   They went to the tournament in 1985.

Dennison was fired after the 1985 season. Imagine that!

[ewbrooman1]

1 hour ago, Lee Adams said:

You are right. Thanks for the catch.The site I looked at started with Faust. Dennison coached when Akron was in the Mid Continent!!? 1978-1979-They went 12-10 under Dennison. From 1980-1985 they were in the OVC. During those 6 seasons Dennison went-3-7-1;5-5;6-5;8-3;4-7;8-4.   They went to the tournament in 1985.

Dennison was fired after the 1985 season. Imagine that!

As long as we're still talking Dennison, it is worthwhile to note he had a career winning record (13-9) against MAC teams when we weren't even at the same level. Some of them were crummy MAC teams, but MAC nonetheless. Plus he beat Ball State when they were MAC champs in 1976. He should have had a chance at D1. Faust sure wasn't successful.

Edited September 8, 2019 by ewbrooman1

[94zipgrad]

Boy this thread sure got off track from UAB game

[NWAkron]

14 minutes ago, 94zipgrad said:

Boy this thread sure got off track from UAB game

Let me catch u up:

Bowden would have had us in the BCS playoffs.  His teams were highly disciplined and the play- calling top notch.  4-8 and a loss to the lowly BG at home wasn't his fault.

Arth is just a pretty face in over his head and was a huge hiring mistake that will destroy the football team and probably the university.

[94zipgrad]

27 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

Let me catch u up:

Bowden would have had us in the BCS playoffs.  His teams were highly disciplined and the play- calling top notch.  4-8 and a loss to the lowly BG at home wasn't his fault.

Arth is just a pretty face in over his head and was a huge hiring mistake that will destroy the football team and probably the university.

Thanks for cliff notes, now let’s fix our special teams & we got a different game, missed extra point, field goal, 4 yard punt, let a kickoff ball sit on 2 yard line & a muffed punt that all killed us 

 

Go Zips ?

[ewbrooman1]

Getting back to the game, what was the deal with the turnover pencil? I guess I missed a good explanation.

 

Never mind. Found Arth's explanation. Weak.

Edited September 8, 2019 by ewbrooman1

[akronzips71]

27 minutes ago, 94zipgrad said:

Thanks for cliff notes, now let’s fix our special teams & we got a different game, missed extra point, field goal, 4 yard punt, let a kickoff ball sit on 2 yard line & a muffed punt that all killed us 

 

Go Zips ?

Great points.

NO football IQ. NONE.

That is on the coach.

[UAZipster0305]

7 hours ago, footballzip said:

Its all about recruiting. We need to give Arth a chance to bring his recruits in. It usually takes 3-5 years to build a successful program. Why is OSU good every year? because they get the best recruits every year. Arth is known to be a good recruiter, born and raised in NE Ohio. Hopefully he can get some good talent from our area. We are going to have to be patient.

 

This is the exact same thing that was said about iCoach..."great recruiter".

[UAZipster0305]

12 hours ago, LZIp said:

1) Arth had I believe the #1 and #2 recruiting classes in his conference in his two years at UT-C.

2) Per 247, last year Arth, in 2 months with early signing day working against him, literally put together the 2nd best recruiting class compared to everybody since 2012 (the year Bowden started). In Bowden's best class, which ranked #113 (compared to Arth's #114), his class averaged 2 points lower per recruit than Arth's did and many of those players didn't even end up making it to campus.

 

Just facts man.

Factual, yes. Meaningful, I doubt it. Recruiting rankings only exist to generate excitement in the off-season and to suck more money out of college football fans.

 

Across college football, I doubt that recruiting class rankings correspond much at all to W-L in the following years. I believe this is even more true in the non-P5 conferences where there isn't the same money or interest and thus little to no research on lower-level recruits.

 

What were UT-C's records in the season or two after these amazing classes?

 

I say again, iCoach was pegged as a "great recruiter", and he even had a much better pedigree and overall resume than Arth.

Edited September 9, 2019 by UAZipster0305

[94zipgrad]

 

[UAZipster0305]

4 hours ago, NWAkron said:

Let me catch u up:

Bowden would have had us in the BCS playoffs.  His teams were highly disciplined and the play- calling top notch.  4-8 and a loss to the lowly BG at home wasn't his fault.

Arth is just a pretty face in over his head and was a huge hiring mistake that will destroy the football team and probably the university.

That's pure hyperbole. Bowden pushed the boundaries of the program and achieved what is reasonable to expect for us in the current climate of college football and given our history. He not only brought us back from the abyss, but also gave us our best ever D-1A season. As I stated yesterday, our performance at Michigan was great for entertainment and pride in our University, yet by your metrics counts for nothing.

 

We will certainly never be Boise St and likely not NIU or Toledo either. I'm fine with that, and I don't think risking all these 1-11 seasons and consistently returning us to the joke of D-1A is worth it. It's problematic too that some AD's encourage these fire-hire cycles to build their resume only for the sake of moving on to the next position. It's an exploitive practice.

Edited September 8, 2019 by UAZipster0305

[UA1987]

41 minutes ago, UAZipster0305 said:

 It's problematic too that some AD's encourage these fire-hire cycles to build their resume only for the sake of moving on to the next position. That's exploitive.

 

This is a very good point

[LZIp]

3 hours ago, UAZipster0305 said:

Factual, yes. Meaningful, I doubt it. Recruiting rankings only exist to generate excitement in the off-season and suck more money out of college football fans.

 

I doubt that across college football that recruiting class rankings correspond much at all to W-L in the following years. I believe this is even more true in the non-P5 conferences where there isn't the same money or interest and thus little to no research on lower-level recruits.

 

What were UT-C's records in the season or two after these amazing classes? You mention Bowden's overall record at UA but not Arth's at UT-C. Why is that?

 

I say again, iCoach was pegged as a "great recruiter", and he even had a much better pedigree and overall resume than Arth.

No I didn't. Bowden is no longer the coach here, so he is irrelevant to me.

[UAZipster0305]

2 minutes ago, LZIp said:

No I didn't. Bowden is no longer the coach here, so he is irrelevant to me.

 

You're right. You didn't. That was another poster. My apologies. I will edit my post accordingly.

[Lee Adams]

5 hours ago, ewbrooman1 said:

As long as we're still talking Dennison, it is worthwhile to note he had a career winning record (13-9) against MAC teams when we weren't even at the same level. Some of them were crummy MAC teams, but MAC nonetheless. Plus he beat Ball State when they were MAC champs in 1976. He should have had a chance at D1. Faust sure wasn't successful.

You bet!

[Lee Adams]

24 minutes ago, UA1987 said:

This is a very good point

Said that earlier. Some of the problems with the football program have been caused by AD's looking for the next job. Williams is a football guy. Lets hope he has a better feel for Arth than some others have.

[Blue & Gold]

2 hours ago, 94zipgrad said:

 

Excellent article.  Learned more from that than I have in the last 5 years reading the ABJ.