Game 5: Akron @ UMass – 3:30 pm

[Balsy]

On 10/2/2019 at 5:25 PM, Captain Kangaroo said:

Last year, 4-8 Bowden beat -

• Northwestern
• Morgan State (4-7 FCS)
• Kent State in OT (2-10)
• CMU (1-11)

We lost 9-of-11 starters on defense, and that defense carried the 2018 team.

 

Due to the timing of his hire he completely missed out on the initial signing day. We lost our best returning WR, Jonah Morris, before the season even started.

 

Shocking that we're bad in 2019. Who knew? 

 

Arth is a good person, and a hard worker. He's legitimately focusing on NE Ohio recruits, which is something Akron fans have bemoaned for years. Everyone here should support the guy. Against a lot of odds, his staff and team are busting their ass to bring Akron a winner.

 

If you repeatedly post on ZipsNation bitching about Arth, you're just trying to bring the program down. And bring the supporters down. And that is not why I pay the money, and spend the time, to run a nice site that represents UA well. People that repeatedly bitch make ZipNation toxic and drive good, interesting, fun fans away. That won't fly.

 

Northwestern (first big-10 win in school history)
Kent State (important rivalry game to win regardless of their record...a rivalry game we will lose this year)

Assuming it's True that Kato was hurt in the latter half of the season, and Ramart didn't pan out like planned, is it any surprise that the Zips went 4-8.  I mean you can apply the "is it any surprise" standard to just about anything, if that's magically a good argument.

Not one of us Arth detractors has made the argument that Arth and his staff isn't hard working.  We're critical of the contention that he's somehow better than Bowden was (he's not, verifiably):  Bowden was 82-69 in D-1 football.  Arth is 0-5.  Those of us detract from Arth not because we HOPE he can turn it around, or cheer for the Zips: we're pissed that it seems no improvement has happened.  Period.  Verifiably.

And no, if we repeatedly post on ZNO to bitch about Arth et. al, we are not trying to bring the program down.  Not anymore than the myriad of posters here who repeatedly posted on ZNO to bitch about Bowden and Milwee et al, were trying to bring the program down.  It was perfectly okay for you and many others to attack me as a Bowden defender, but it's suddenly not okay for us to disagree with you.  Hypocrisy much?  Double standard much?

But I'll ask you...what is there to be "fun" about right now?  What is there to be "interested" in with Zips football right now?  Sorry there are those of us who haven't drank the coolaide.  I also find it somewhat interesting that there wasn't comment from you about having a "toxic enviornment" here when people did nothing but complain about the previous years of Zips football and attacked it's defenders.  

[Balsy]

On 10/2/2019 at 4:50 PM, kreed5120 said:

Akron didn't fire Bowden to hire Arth. They fired Bowden because he won only 40% of his games through 7 seasons despite playing in the worst division in all of FBS. No matter who the coach was this team was going to stink based off the lack of talent on the roster. If you want to say Bowden would have won 3-4 games with this roster I'm not going to bother arguing as that would be purely subjective, but there is no way this team was going to make it to a bowl game even if Nick Saban was coaching it. If through 5 games you're certain that Arth isn't the guy, I certainly had my doubts when they hired him (still do), that just means Larry Williams hired the wrong guy. There are other MAC programs that can perennially make bowls and their "good seasons" are 9-10+ wins. Why do you think the best Akron can do is a perennial 5-7 team with our "good season" being 8-5?

 
You're damn right 8-5 with a first Bowl-Win in school History is a "good season" because WE'D NEVER HAD IT BEFORE!  If you think Akron is going to do any better than that under Arth, you're flat out delusional.  Because there is ZERO indication the Zips will approach anywhere near that level of "success" before Arth is jettisoned.  And NO I'M NOT SAYING THAT TO HURT THE PROGRAM: I'm saying it because it's objectively true until Arth et al. Prove otherwise.  The Zips 2019 are more circa 2011/2010 than circa 2015.

Oh...as for the won 40% of his games...if you exclude the 1st season (which y'all tell me is a "rebuilding year" so it doesn't count...therefore we must apply that logic to Bowden as well) he won 49%.  One more winning season would have gotten that over 50%. 

For Context (because it matters) Frank Solich, has won 57% of his games in his 14 year tenure at Ohio.  In his first 6-years (to compare to Bowden) he was 40-36 with two Bowl appearances (no wins) and one MAC Championship appearance.  Bowden (excluding his first year) was 34-41 with two Bowl Appearances (one win) and one MAC Championship Appearance.  

I personally believe Frank Solich and Ohio's last 14-years SHOULD be what we would Want here in Akron.  Stability, and a CHANCE to shine every couple of years to every year.  Using the logic being presented here Frank Solich would have been jettisoned in 2008 after going 4-8 , two years removed from a Bowl game and a year prior to them going 9-5 with a MACC and third bowl appearance (Bowden was 4-8 and only ONE year removed from a MACC appearance and Bowl-game).

All we bitter people are trying to point out is that perhaps, maybe, the decision was made prematurely.  Especially when he had two more years on his contract (that we are still paying him for right now).  Did we really gain ANYTHING by jettisoning him and Bringing in 0-5 Arth?  We don't think so.  And we are objectively correct.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Balsy

[Dr Z]

42 minutes ago, Balsy said:

 All we bitter people are trying to point out is that perhaps, maybe, the decision was made prematurely. 

Point made. 

[Balsy]

55 minutes ago, Dr Z said:

Point made. 

 

Oh so Arth defenders get to rant away, but Arth detractors need to shorten themselves to a sentence...

Edited October 5, 2019 by Balsy

[DannyHoke]

On 10/2/2019 at 3:23 PM, Captain Kangaroo said:

 

If it is indeed true that - "You improve through criticism.  You do not improve from sunshine and rainbows and apathy" then I'll offer the following candid thoughts - 

 

You have 3,870 posts on ZipsNation. I am still waiting for the first good one. You started off strong in 2012 with your avatar, and everything since then has been a banal, verbose waste of space. 

 

You offer a stunning combination of ignorance and self-importance.

 

#Facts.  Tough Love.

 

This. Is. Pretty.  Strong.  Bravo Amigo

[DannyHoke]

Peeps, at the end of the day, the facts are what they are. The Zips are 0-fer.  I seriously doubt anyone here wants to see any Zip coach, athlete or admin fail.

 

[ewbrooman1]

Last year's roster had around 35 players from NE Ohio. Seems like somebody was focusing on recruiting here.

[Zippyroo]

49 minutes ago, ewbrooman1 said:

Last year's roster had around 35 players from NE Ohio. Seems like somebody was focusing on recruiting here.

35 players from NE Ohio out of over a 100 players is not a focus in NE Ohio in my mind. NE Ohio is loaded with talent. The top 3 division high school state champions in Ohio all came from NE Ohio last year (Saint Ed's, Hoban, and Kenston).  Throw in D6 state champs, Kirtland,  gives 4 out of the 7 division state champs all came from NE ohio.  Add in some players from St Ignatius, Mentor, Solon, Avon, Perry, Euclid, Maple Heights,  and others and I think you could put together one hell if a team plus you would fill the stands with all the local fans. That's why they should really concentrate on recruiting local talent.  Well over half the roster should be from NE Ohio.....

[dre22era]

15 minutes ago, Zippyroo said:

35 players from NE Ohio out of over a 100 players is not a focus in NE Ohio in my mind. NE Ohio is loaded with talent. The top 3 division high school state champions in Ohio all came from NE Ohio last year (Saint Ed's, Hoban, and Kenston).  Throw in D6 state champs, Kirtland,  gives 4 out of the 7 division state champs all came from NE ohio.  Add in some players from St Ignatius, Mentor, Solon, Avon, Perry, Euclid, Maple Heights,  and others and I think you could put together one hell if a team plus you would fill the stands with all the local fans. That's why they should really concentrate on recruiting local talent.  Well over half the roster should be from NE Ohio.....

BINGO

via GIPHY

[kreed5120]

6 hours ago, Balsy said:

 
You're damn right 8-5 with a first Bowl-Win in school History is a "good season" because WE'D NEVER HAD IT BEFORE!  If you think Akron is going to do any better than that under Arth, you're flat out delusional.  Because there is ZERO indication the Zips will approach anywhere near that level of "success" before Arth is jettisoned.  And NO I'M NOT SAYING THAT TO HURT THE PROGRAM: I'm saying it because it's objectively true until Arth et al. Prove otherwise.  The Zips 2019 are more circa 2011/2010 than circa 2015.

Oh...as for the won 40% of his games...if you exclude the 1st season (which y'all tell me is a "rebuilding year" so it doesn't count...therefore we must apply that logic to Bowden as well) he won 49%.  One more winning season would have gotten that over 50%. 

For Context (because it matters) Frank Solich, has won 57% of his games in his 14 year tenure at Ohio.  In his first 6-years (to compare to Bowden) he was 40-36 with two Bowl appearances (no wins) and one MAC Championship appearance.  Bowden (excluding his first year) was 34-41 with two Bowl Appearances (one win) and one MAC Championship Appearance.  

I personally believe Frank Solich and Ohio's last 14-years SHOULD be what we would Want here in Akron.  Stability, and a CHANCE to shine every couple of years to every year.  Using the logic being presented here Frank Solich would have been jettisoned in 2008 after going 4-8 , two years removed from a Bowl game and a year prior to them going 9-5 with a MACC and third bowl appearance (Bowden was 4-8 and only ONE year removed from a MACC appearance and Bowl-game).

All we bitter people are trying to point out is that perhaps, maybe, the decision was made prematurely.  Especially when he had two more years on his contract (that we are still paying him for right now).  Did we really gain ANYTHING by jettisoning him and Bringing in 0-5 Arth?  We don't think so.  And we are objectively correct.

You must have missed the part where I said I'm not completely sold on Arth.

 

Bowden wasn't going to have a winning record with this team. Have you not seen how little talent we have? This season would have lowered his winning percentage, not raised it.

 

Once again you're back to comparing apples to oranges. If you want to exclude Bowden 1st year then you also need to exclude Solich first year not to mention you excluded his 7th season. In years 2-7 Solich record was 46-33 and he had a 10 win season. In those 6 years Solich had 4 winning seasons. Bowden had 1...

 

The point I'm making is firing Bowden and hiring Arth are two completely different decisions. If Arth ends up sucking that doesn't mean firing Bowden was a bad decision. It means hiring Arth was the bad decision. 

[Blue & Gold]

FIU beat UMass today 44-0.

 

Does Gibson get the start vs. KSUcks?

[zzx]

5 hours ago, Zippyroo said:

35 players from NE Ohio out of over a 100 players is not a focus in NE Ohio in my mind. NE Ohio is loaded with talent. The top 3 division high school state champions in Ohio all came from NE Ohio last year (Saint Ed's, Hoban, and Kenston).  Throw in D6 state champs, Kirtland,  gives 4 out of the 7 division state champs all came from NE ohio.  Add in some players from St Ignatius, Mentor, Solon, Avon, Perry, Euclid, Maple Heights,  and others and I think you could put together one hell if a team plus you would fill the stands with all the local fans. That's why they should really concentrate on recruiting local talent.  Well over half the roster should be from NE Ohio.....

 

You forgot 2018 division 5 champion Orrville in Wayne County which is in Northeastern Ohio. The University of Akron even has a branch there: Wayne College.

 

In addition, Girard, the 2018 division 4 champion, is in Trumbull County which also in Northeastern Ohio.

 

Therefore, six out of seven 2018 football champions were from Northeastern Ohio.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by zzx

[Zippyroo]

9 minutes ago, zzx said:

 

You forgot division 5 champion Orrville in Wayne County which is in Northeastern Ohio. Akron even has a branch there: Wayne College

 

Oh shoot, your right. 5 out of 7 HS division state champions from NE Ohio.  Even more reason to recruit here.  Good find!

[ZipsVoice]

6 hours ago, Zippyroo said:

6 hours ago, Zippyroo said:

Oh shoot, your right. 5 out of 7 HS division state champions from NE Ohio. 

 

I don't know the answer to this, and I'm too lazy to check it out, but how many of the 130 NCAA D1 schools have kids on their current roster hailing from say, I-70 as the southern border and Sandusky as the western border, as an indication of how the rest of the nation views NEOhio high school football talent?  I mean, Zippyroo, this board has been full of the same boasts since Akron moved to D1, that the talent was in our backyard, and if we just recruit them the fans would come.  History proves it hasn't happened, when we did just that, as far as attendance goes.  I would think 35 players on a D1 roster from a radius of 60 to 70 miles is pretty significant.  Now, I know the argument is going to come "Yeah, but they're recruiting the WRONG NEO kids....are we ever going to go toe-to-toe with OSU, MICH, Penn State, WVU, hell even Pitt, and come home with the real talent from NEO?

[kreed5120]

12 minutes ago, ZipsVoice said:

I don't know the answer to this, and I'm too lazy to check it out, but how many of the 130 NCAA D1 schools have kids on their current roster hailing from say, I-70 as the southern border and Sandusky as the western border, as an indication of how the rest of the nation views NEOhio high school football talent?  I mean, Zippyroo, this board has been full of the same boasts since Akron moved to D1, that the talent was in our backyard, and if we just recruit them the fans would come.  History proves it hasn't happened, when we did just that, as far as attendance goes.  I would think 35 players on a D1 roster from a radius of 60 to 70 miles is pretty significant.  Now, I know the argument is going to come "Yeah, but they're recruiting the WRONG NEO kids....are we ever going to go toe-to-toe with OSU, MICH, Penn State, WVU, hell even Pitt, and come home with the real talent from NEO?

I'm in agreement with you that ~35 kids is a decent number to have. I have no problem losing out on 4* & 5* recruits to OSU, UM, etc. It's the fact other MAC schools are out recruiting us in our own backyard that I find frustrating. I'm seeing in 2017 the highest rated Ohio recruit we got was #96 in the state. I'm counting 10-11 NEO guys who committed to other MAC schools and have a higher grade than Akron's best recruit. I get we're not going to get everyone, but we have to do better than that.

 

 https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=highschool&State=OH

[Blue & Gold]

3 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

It's the fact other MAC schools are out recruiting us in our own backyard that I find frustrating.

 

 https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=highschool&State=OH

 

+1.  If we could put an end to that I think we could be a monster in the MAC & an occasional, perhaps even regular, #22-#25-ish member of the Top 25. 

 

[clarkwgriswold]

There are some kids that will always want to go away to school that you'll never get and you'll never get the 4 and 5 star guys.  After that, other than a kid who may opt to go to UC, they're no reason Akron shouldn't be in the mix for any Ohio kid.  I'll give Arth a slight pass on his first recruiting class as they got a late start but they'll have no excuses next year and we'd better see his NEO connections starting to make an impact.  Also, I hope to see some solid kids from the area who have gone off to big schools and not succeeded and decide to come home.

[dre22era]

Put it this way

For example our most celebrated Akron Alum Basketball players are from where? Shrugs 

[Balsy]

23 hours ago, Zippyroo said:

35 players from NE Ohio out of over a 100 players is not a focus in NE Ohio in my mind. NE Ohio is loaded with talent. The top 3 division high school state champions in Ohio all came from NE Ohio last year (Saint Ed's, Hoban, and Kenston).  Throw in D6 state champs, Kirtland,  gives 4 out of the 7 division state champs all came from NE ohio.  Add in some players from St Ignatius, Mentor, Solon, Avon, Perry, Euclid, Maple Heights,  and others and I think you could put together one hell if a team plus you would fill the stands with all the local fans. That's why they should really concentrate on recruiting local talent.  Well over half the roster should be from NE Ohio.....

 

22 hours ago, dre22era said:

BINGO

via GIPHY

 

You guys are delusional if you think any of the good NE Ohio Football players are going to come to Akron when it's 0-12, and  have a history of not being good, and look like they're going anywhere but up.

It doesn't matter how much talent is in an Area if you can't attract any of it.  Number of guys on a roster from a region do not reflect if they actually have the talent or not.

[dre22era]

14 hours ago, Balsy said:

 

 

You guys are delusional if you think any of the good NE Ohio Football players are going to come to Akron when it's 0-12, and  have a history of not being good, and look like they're going anywhere but up.

It doesn't matter how much talent is in an Area if you can't attract any of it.  Number of guys on a roster from a region do not reflect if they actually have the talent or not.

These days its about Exposure, Legacy and Family Access to games. With the right staff in in place we can indeed attract local talent. 

We have a history of drafting players to the NFL who have won Superbowls and Hall of Fame. THAT MATTERS 

Edited October 7, 2019 by dre22era

[Balsy]

48 minutes ago, dre22era said:

These days its about Exposure, Legacy and Family Access to games. With the right staff in in place we can indeed attract local talent. 

We have a history of drafting players to the NFL who have won Superbowls and Hall of Fame. THAT MATTERS 

 

Attracting local talent is not the problem: its attracting GOOD local talent.  

As a history of drafting players ot the NFL who have been in Superbowls; so has Kent, Toledo, Ohio and Ohio State; Hall of Fame, Just one player...who played here almost two decades ago.  Sure I'll even throw in John Heisman himself coached here AND developed the under-center snap at Akron.  Those things might matter to Zips Alumni; they don't really matter to anyone else, that's just being honest.

Akron is IMHO, a third tier of where local talent would go:

Tier 1: Ohio States, Big-Tens, Alabamas of the World.
Tier 2: Cincinnatis, West Virginias (Bigger Schools away from here) the OUs of the world.
Tier 3: The Akrons, Kents, BGSUs of the world.

The players Akron would be getting are those that can't get to Tier 1 or Tier 2s, or the rare...and I mean RARE individual who could get into Tiers 1,2 and choose not to be there.  

The Best Shot Akron has is to get what decent recruits it has, from where-ever it can, with a healthy diet of transfers who go to those Tier-1s that don't crack the starting lineup and want to play other than being benchwarmers.  I think it's delusional to think Talent is going to come to Akron on their own...regardless of who is the coach (except a big name WOULD help...).

Edited October 7, 2019 by Balsy

[dre22era]

3 minutes ago, Balsy said:

 

Attracting local talent is not the problem: its attracting GOOD local talent.  

As a history of drafting players ot the NFL who have been in Superbowls; so has Kent, Toledo, Ohio and Ohio State; Hall of Fame, Just one player...who played here almost two decades ago.  Sure I'll even throw in John Heisman himself coached here AND developed the under-center snap at Akron.  Those things might matter to Zips Alumni; they don't really matter to anyone else, that's just being honest.

Akron is IMHO, a third tier of where local talent would go:

Tier 1: Ohio States, Big-Tens, Alabamas of the World.
Tier 2: Cincinnatis, West Virginias (Bigger Schools away from here) the OUs of the world.
Tier 3: The Akrons, Kents, BGSUs of the world.

The players Akron would be getting are those that can't get to Tier 1 or Tier 2s, or the rare...and I mean RARE individual who could get into Tiers 1,2 and choose not to be there.  

The Best Shot Akron has is to get what decent recruits it has, from where-ever it can, with a healthy diet of transfers who go to those Tier-1s that don't crack the starting lineup and want to play other than being benchwarmers.  I think it's delusional to think Talent is going to come to Akron on their own...regardless of who is the coach (except a big name WOULD help...).

Ohio U gets great Talent 
Buffalo Gets Great Talent 
Western Michigan Gets Great Talent 
And yes we had great players come through here at a time when we had no tv contract and no on campus stadium but still got them. 

We have the facilities, an exposure to attract and compete. 

[dre22era]

Maryland for example is now in a Power 5 Conference and has the 2nd biggest booster in all of sports Kevin Plank and still cant get over the hump. 

Everything isn't about $$$ and Tiers 

[Balsy]

1 hour ago, dre22era said:

Ohio U gets great Talent 
Buffalo Gets Great Talent 
Western Michigan Gets Great Talent 
And yes we had great players come through here at a time when we had no tv contract and no on campus stadium but still got them. 

We have the facilities, an exposure to attract and compete. 

That's why I put OU in a different category, I put them as a Tier 2.  Ohio is far more attractive than Akron is.  They have a history of winning.  They have a culture of fan support (two things Akron DOES NOT have).  Therefore we aren't in the same tier as the WMUs, Buffalos and Ohio Universities.  All the other schools also have Facilities.  This argument about "facilities" is not a factor in 2019.  It just isn't.  YSU now has facilities equal (if not better by virtue of being new) to ours.  It's not the factor you think it is.

Yeah we got those good players, when College Football was a completely different thing.  Some kid might go unnoticed and develops into a Star in the NFL like Baker Mayfield did...oh wait, even Baker decided to believe in himself enough to go walk-on at Oklahoma instead of transferring to a lower Tier school like Akron and shining.  It's 2019.  It's not gonna happen.  

Edited October 7, 2019 by Balsy

[dre22era]

3 minutes ago, Balsy said:

That's why I put OU in a different category.  They have a history of winning.  They have a culture of fan support (two things Akron DOES NOT have).  Therefore we aren't in the same tier as the WMUs, Buffalos and Ohio Universities.  All the other schools also have Facilities.  This argument about "facilities" is not a factor in 2019.  It just isn't.  YSU now has facilities equal (if not better by virtue of being new) to ours.  It's not the factor you think it is.

Yeah we got those good players, when College Football was a completely different thing.  Some kid might go unnoticed and develops into a Star in the NFL like Baker Mayfield did...oh wait, even Baker decided to believe in himself enough to go walk-on at Oklahoma instead of transferring to a lower Tier school like Akron and shining.  It's 2019.  It's not gonna happen.  

With the right staff in place the culture can change. Writing it off saying we will never compete and nothing will ever change is asinine 

Hell im scared to ask how you feel about HBCU football programs