Smaller, Leaner athletic program...

[clarkwgriswold]

Akron's student teacher ratio is 20:1.  More student athletes arguably require more faculty.  It is certainly an economy of scale, but they cost the University something.

 

Blue & Gold- is your dad interested in adopting? 

[NWAkron]

25 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

Okay, stupid question.  But scholarships don't really cost the U any tangible $$, do they?  Just on paper, right?.  Sure, you can say the scholarship is worth $xx,xxx.xx, - and it is to the student; the diploma they receive is in fact worth that much $$.  But from the U's perspective isn't the scholarship simply letting a student sit at a desk which would otherwise be empty?  

 

My dad was friends with someone who owned a country club.  He let my family use the facilities free of charge.  It was a great deal for us - and worth about $8,000/year from our perspective.  But it didn't actually cost him anything because we wouldn't be going to the CC otherwise.  

 

Edit: @kreed5120 hit on this while I was typing. 

That's a really good point.  Never thought of it that way.  

[Spin]

 

reboot

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Spin

[DannyHoke]

2 hours ago, zippy5 said:

Just because you keep saying it doesn't mean it's true. Link?

 

 

Just because it's not on the web does not mean it's not being discussed.  I'll share in BROAD terms what I know to be true from multiple sources.  Watch.

[DannyHoke]

If you try and apply logic or business principles to the operations of a University you will be forever lost.  The costs of scholarships are REAL in terms if how U of A does budgeting across the board, so yeah, the costs are the costs. Only Football (85), Men's Basketball (13), Women's Basketball (15) and Volleyball (12) are full scholarship sports by NCAA rule, all others are partial scholarships.  Akron Athletics is looking at mandating that all student-athletes live on campus for 3 years, which would save money as if they choose to live off campus they get the room & board part of their full scholarships in a cash check.  Athletes also get a cost of attendance stipend from the U of A, and then are eligible for Pell Grants and other NCAA based financial props that can add up to as much as $18K a year, tax free.  Don't forget that every full scholarship is also inclusive of the exhaustive number of student fees. https://www.uakron.edu/admissions/undergraduate/tuition_fees.dot

 

 

 

[Blue & Gold]

2 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Blue & Gold- is your dad interested in adopting? 

The club is now under different ownership.  So it's back to the unwashed masses for me ??

[NWAkron]

2 hours ago, DannyHoke said:

If you try and apply logic or business principles to the operations of a University you will be forever lost.  The costs of scholarships are REAL in terms if how U of A does budgeting across the board, so yeah, the costs are the costs. Only Football (85), Men's Basketball (13), Women's Basketball (15) and Volleyball (12) are full scholarship sports by NCAA rule, all others are partial scholarships.  Akron Athletics is looking at mandating that all student-athletes live on campus for 3 years, which would save money as if they choose to live off campus they get the room & board part of their full scholarships in a cash check.  Athletes also get a cost of attendance stipend from the U of A, and then are eligible for Pell Grants and other NCAA based financial props that can add up to as much as $18K a year, tax free.  Don't forget that every full scholarship is also inclusive of the exhaustive number of student fees. https://www.uakron.edu/admissions/undergraduate/tuition_fees.dot

 

 

 

That is useful information.  Thank you for sharing that regarding the scholarships.  As for what the university is "planning" or "thinking" of doing, I will wait until there is official word.  I don't want to be someone calling for elimination of programs just for the sake of "I told you so."

Edited May 7, 2020 by NWAkron

[Cykron]

2 hours ago, DannyHoke said:

 

 

Just because it's not on the web does not mean it's not being discussed.  I'll share in BROAD terms what I know to be true from multiple sources.  Watch.

 

From what I can tell, I doubt you have many contacts who are in current positions of authority.  I'm guessing you have a club of retirees who meet (probably still do) for coffee and talk about what it was like in the olden days.  These guys all share their opinions based on what they would have done decades ago.  Maybe they even are communicating with current stakeholders, but I'll bet it is one-way communication.  If you had a reputable source, I have no doubt that you would be flaunting it.  I can't imagine any current stakeholder telling you anything lest you out them on this forum.  

[Spin]

So if/when the university decides to drop X number of programs, what happens next?

 

The programs have awarded scholarships, are those rescinded?

 

What about the contracts to play non-conference games against other programs, do they need to fulfill those? How many years out are there games scheduled?

 

Is there a requirement to play X number of seasons in the MAC after announcing closure? Is there a substantial penalty for early withdrawal?

 

Or is it all over effective immediately? What are the costs of the broken contracts with the conference and other competitors?

 

I assume with the contributions recently made, and the upcoming construction at the ballpark, that non-scholarship (from the university itself) baseball would continue. 

 

This is all new to me. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Spin

[zippy5]

We just went through it with baseball.. I'm not sure the specifics but it's probably out there somewhere being so recent. It terminated immediately IIRC

[NWAkron]

27 minutes ago, Cykron said:

 

From what I can tell, I doubt you have many contacts who are in current positions of authority.  I'm guessing you have a club of retirees who meet (probably still do) for coffee and talk about what it was like in the olden days.  These guys all share their opinions based on what they would have done decades ago.  Maybe they even are communicating with current stakeholders, but I'll bet it is one-way communication.  If you had a reputable source, I have no doubt that you would be flaunting it.  I can't imagine any current stakeholder telling you anything lest you out them on this forum.  

Thank you!!  

[clarkwgriswold]

The scholarships as I understand them are essentially one year renewable agreements.  Each year, the school has the ability to not renew.  It's a **** move if they don't and it quickly impacts your program's reputation if you do it, but they can do it.  When programs shut down, the best thing they can do is help the kids find a landing spot.  I can't remember who it was, but the Zips a while back picked up a basketball player that left a program being shut down as I recall.

[clarkwgriswold]

29 minutes ago, Cykron said:

 

From what I can tell, I doubt you have many contacts who are in current positions of authority.  I'm guessing you have a club of retirees who meet (probably still do) for coffee and talk about what it was like in the olden days.  These guys all share their opinions based on what they would have done decades ago.  Maybe they even are communicating with current stakeholders, but I'll bet it is one-way communication.  If you had a reputable source, I have no doubt that you would be flaunting it.  I can't imagine any current stakeholder telling you anything lest you out them on this forum.  

 

All those contacts and connections were vital in retaining Bowden and canning Williams.

[kreed5120]

With baseball the program was terminated immediately a few years back. The university did agree to honor any and all scholarships if players decided to stick around. I imagine they would do the same now. Most players transferred anyways as they wanted to continue playing baseball. 

[zippy5]

7 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

The scholarships as I understand them are essentially one year renewable agreements.  Each year, the school has the ability to not renew.  It's a **** move if they don't and it quickly impacts your program's reputation if you do it, but they can do it.  When programs shut down, the best thing they can do is help the kids find a landing spot.  I can't remember who it was, but the Zips a while back picked up a basketball player that left a program being shut down as I recall.

Quincy Diggs

[clarkwgriswold]

5 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Quincy Diggs

I knew it was him or Giiliam.  I remembered it was a New Orleans program then figured it was Diggs but then saw they are still playing at New Orleans.  They must have started back up.

[NWAkron]

https://www.beaconjournal.com/news/20200507/university-of-akron-president-expects-to-reopen-campus-in-fall-continue-with-division-i-athletics

 

not much with details but promising.  Division 1 so assume football remains.  And get kids back on campus!!

[clarkwgriswold]

3 hours ago, NWAkron said:

https://www.beaconjournal.com/news/20200507/university-of-akron-president-expects-to-reopen-campus-in-fall-continue-with-division-i-athletics

 

not much with details but promising.  Division 1 so assume football remains.  And get kids back on campus!!

 

That doesn't exclude fewer teams or FCS football in time, however.

[NWAkron]

35 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

That doesn't exclude fewer teams or FCS football in time, however.

There's certainly going to be some pain and sad news, but this is decent news for now.

[LZIp]

 

[clarkwgriswold]

Some talking head on Doug Gottleib's show in discussing the financial plight of colleges today mentioned all of the money PCCC makes on away football games against powerhouses and how that could all be in peril if the landscape of college football changes. 

 

[NWAkron]

3 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Some talking head on Doug Gottleib's show in discussing the financial plight of colleges today mentioned all of the money PCCC makes on away football games against powerhouses and how that could all be in peril if the landscape of college football changes. 

 

I think so at least for this year.   But get the world moving again...and will get back to some normality.

[ZippyRulz]

5 hours ago, NWAkron said:

https://www.beaconjournal.com/news/20200507/university-of-akron-president-expects-to-reopen-campus-in-fall-continue-with-division-i-athletics

 

not much with details but promising.  Division 1 so assume football remains.  And get kids back on campus!!

We couldn't be cutting more than 1 or 2 sports and still be div. I amirite?

[NWAkron]

16 minutes ago, ZippyRulz said:

We couldn't be cutting more than 1 or 2 sports and still be div. I amirite?

Division I schools: Offer at least 14 sports: seven for men and seven for women, or six for men and eight for women. Offer at least two team sports for men and two for women. Can guarantee an audience of a specific size for football and basketball.  Akron has 19.  

[clarkwgriswold]

11 hours ago, NWAkron said:

Division I schools: Offer at least 14 sports: seven for men and seven for women, or six for men and eight for women. Offer at least two team sports for men and two for women. Can guarantee an audience of a specific size for football and basketball.  Akron has 19.  

 

I'd love to see a breakdown of expenses and revenues by sport.  I look at some of the sports and think "why?", but if they are not a substantial financial burden I could see keeping them (e.g. rifle).  At some point, someone will start looking at all of this like a business and finances will become the controlling factor.