Smaller, Leaner athletic program...

[72 Roo]

3 hours ago, Zipmeister said:

 

UofA's board members would not be eligible for committee membership given your requirement that the members be smart.

Couldn't agree  with the Meister more. Lots of criticism has fallen at the feet of our presidents and AD's. Sure they deserve some of it, but who hired them? Our turnaround will start when we get a board of trustees that is totally invested and committed to UA and not in their professional careers. They are flat out incompetent. Not because they are not smart people, but rather because they are people who don't care and do not invest their time, hearts and futures in UA. When I look at our board versus those appointed to OSU, UC, Miami and OU I get sick to my stomach. 

[Zipmeister]

There is hope that the composition of Akron's BOT (and others) will improve over time.

Think of what university security guards looked like when you were an undergrad; a couple of unarmed old guys roaming around campus carrying a bunch of building keys and wearing uniforms that looked kike they were obtained from Goodwill. But once events demonstrated that security had to be improved, it was.

Recent financial difficulties have demonstrated that individuals with the financial acumen to address such difficulties would be better board members than those who view the position as some kind of honorarium.

[gozips19]

https://www.cleveland.com/education/2020/07/university-of-akron-faculty-union-spar-over-funding-for-athletics.html

[clarkwgriswold]

Here's the Beacon article about the union's statement-

 

 https://www.beaconjournal.com/news/20200706/university-of-akron-administration-faculty-spar-over-athletics-budget

 

Sigh.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Make the pain stop....

 

Since we cut down the nets after the MAC basketball championship in early March, being a Zips fan has absolutely sucked. One depressing, embarrassing news release after another... 

[GP1]

https://akronaaup.org/app/uploads/2020/07/athletics.pdf

 

Here is the union's actual position statement. I took the time to read it. It isn't asking unreasonable questions.  They hint around the question of what to do with not just Akron, but MAC schools, which is a good thing because it gets them close to the greater question of....What do ALL MAClike schools do moving forward and should this be collective action and not UofA acting unilaterally?  Instead, they propose, "Let’s ask our athletics director to come up with a plan for conference participation that would maximize our teams’ strengths and immediately reduce support from the general fund from $26M to $12M." I do not know where to even start with this. Are there no history professors in this organization who could explain to the rest the failures in athletics the University has participated in when acting unilaterally? A Union should know the benefits of collective action and give it some consideration.  Wait, consideration is the wrong word. They should encourage it. They should want to be part of something that big.

 

The quote above should read, "Let's immediately organize a collective committee composed of interested participants in G5 schools, excluding athletic directors, and come up with a plan for conference participation that would bring our schools closer to the alumni, students and surrounding communities in a way that would make our schools a beacon of pride worthy of state funding for our athletic departments and public universities."

 

I would also encourage the AAUP to consider the FACT that those who play NCAA sports are actually "students" within the student body of the University. Don't describe them as something else. I would also further remind them that many of these young adults come from minority and disadvantaged backgrounds. Athletics are the only chance many of these people have to attend and get a degree from a university. Limousine liberalism isn't going to help them.

 

[clarkwgriswold]

35 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

Make the pain stop....

 

Since we cut down the nets after the MAC basketball championship in early March, being a Zips fan has absolutely sucked. One depressing, embarrassing news release after another... 

 

Basketball season can't get here fast enough.

[NWAkron]

2 hours ago, GP1 said:

https://akronaaup.org/app/uploads/2020/07/athletics.pdf

 

Here is the union's actual position statement. I took the time to read it. It isn't asking unreasonable questions.  They hint around the question of what to do with not just Akron, but MAC schools, which is a good thing because it gets them close to the greater question of....What do ALL MAClike schools do moving forward and should this be collective action and not UofA acting unilaterally?  Instead, they propose, "Let’s ask our athletics director to come up with a plan for conference participation that would maximize our teams’ strengths and immediately reduce support from the general fund from $26M to $12M." I do not know where to even start with this. Are there no history professors in this organization who could explain to the rest the failures in athletics the University has participated in when acting unilaterally? A Union should know the benefits of collective action and give it some consideration.  Wait, consideration is the wrong word. They should encourage it. They should want to be part of something that big.

 

The quote above should read, "Let's immediately organize a collective committee composed of interested participants in G5 schools, excluding athletic directors, and come up with a plan for conference participation that would bring our schools closer to the alumni, students and surrounding communities in a way that would make our schools a beacon of pride worthy of state funding for our athletic departments and public universities."

 

I would also encourage the AAUP to consider the FACT that those who play NCAA sports are actually "students" within the student body of the University. Don't describe them as something else. I would also further remind them that many of these young adults come from minority and disadvantaged backgrounds. Athletics are the only chance many of these people have to attend and get a degree from a university. Limousine liberalism isn't going to help them.

 

No limousines in Akron.  This isnt about liberal v conservative.  Union leaders are elected to see only one side and that's the union side and to oppose anything that hurts or takes something away from the union members.   But 100% agree that the athletes are students as well and her attitude is condescending towards them.  However, she's doing what is her job and that's to fight for her members. Its high stakes negotiations. 

[GP1]

46 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

No limousines in Akron.  This isnt about liberal v conservative.  Union leaders are elected to see only one side and that's the union side and to oppose anything that hurts or takes something away from the union members.   But 100% agree that the athletes are students as well and her attitude is condescending towards them.  However, she's doing what is her job and that's to fight for her members. Its high stakes negotiations. 

They should elect someone else because she presented such a bad case. Further, she is completely absent of any reality of college athletics and while she thinks she may be helping her membership, she is actively harming them. In European countries, unions look to boost up the organizations where their members work.

[NWAkron]

33 minutes ago, GP1 said:

They should elect someone else because she presented such a bad case. Further, she is completely absent of any reality of college athletics and while she thinks she may be helping her membership, she is actively harming them. In European countries, unions look to boost up the organizations where their members work.

Yes.  Police Unions have the same problem (and I don't mean politically or to take a side in the police situations), but they also are at times so blinded by loyalty and the desire to not ever give ground that they stay stupid things and hurt those whom they serve.  However, the union members see someone fighting for them and often miss the nuance especially when it comes to their jobs, salaries, or benefits.

[JZIP]

As a current student at the university, I see both sides of the argument. Losing money every single year is not fiscally responsible or survivable. I fear that I may not have a university to graduate from if drastic changes are not made. I love sports, and I even used to play on one of the university sponsored teams. BUT, the reality is, I would have sacrificed sports for my degree had it come to that. 

 

I think a good plan needs to be established. I don't know if DII is that plan, as it literally destroys every program Akron has. The reality is that Akron is a University, and students like me shouldn't have to fear our major getting cut so that sports can lose more money. I personally know of 2 students that have had their majors ELIMINATED a year before they were set to graduate. How is this acceptable? 

[GP1]

14 minutes ago, JZIP said:

The reality is that Akron is a University, and students like me shouldn't have to fear our major getting cut so that sports can lose more money. I personally know of 2 students that have had their majors ELIMINATED a year before they were set to graduate. How is this acceptable? 

It isn't. I'm not sure one has anything to do with the other. Were the students told they were going to cut their major in order to fund athletics? The Athletic Department is approximately 1% of the University's annual budget. They seem to be taking a disproportionate blame for the problems facing the University.  

[JZIP]

3 minutes ago, GP1 said:

It isn't. I'm not sure one has anything to do with the other. Were the students told they were going to cut their major in order to fund athletics? The Athletic Department is approximately 1% of the University's annual budget. They seem to be taking a disproportionate blame for the problems facing the University.  

Why would they ever tell us that they were cutting a major to fund athletics. They are totally related, a budget is allocated to what is deemed most important. I am pretty sure that we can both agree that if 2 majors that definitely do not cost 25 million a year are cut, the university is allocating those funds elsewhere. The fact of the matter is that athletics were chosen as priority over those 2 majors.

 

If a university is going to cut majors, they should at least be granfathered out. The 2 people I mentioned are crap out of luck. Not many universities accept transfer credits from akron because of how poor of a reputation we have.

 

If we have 2 things that are causing a deficit at a university, and we choose to eliminate 1 of them, clearly we see funding bias and priority. Don't tell me those 2 things don't hold any relation to one another.

[GP1]

55 minutes ago, JZIP said:

If we have 2 things that are causing a deficit at a university, and we choose to eliminate 1 of them, clearly we see funding bias and priority. Don't tell me those 2 things don't hold any relation to one another.

I struggle with either/or propositions. Too Conflict Theory for me and life is much more complicated than the drivel Marx delivered to the world. I can't say one has no impact on the other. Nor can I say one is completely causing the other. I don't like looking at public education as a business because a public university should benefit the greater public. The business only has to benefit the shareholders and consumers. 

 

I will say many of the failures of G5 schools is treating their athletic departments like businesses in the past 15-20 years. It has caused many of them to lose sight of what is really important such as developing students, the overall student population, alumni and greater communities as well as they could. If they did these things well, the public would be more accepting of money being spent in college athletics. Treating athletic departments as businesses has also caused universities to make horrible spending and contract decisions that the schools are paying for now.

 

Before G5 universities make further horrible bad decisions in the name of treating their universities like businesses, they should see if they can utilize their athletic departments to benefit students, alumni and the surrounding communities.  It's a good bet to make. I believe if they can find a way to do this successfully, taxpayers will be more accepting when it comes to spending money within the overall university because it will show the university to be functional.  Right now, all the public sees from public universities is malfunction and taxpayers won't stand for malfunction.  

 

Sorry for the long winded response. I got swept away in typing and a good few songs on Yacht Rock Radio.

[Spin]

1 hour ago, GP1 said:

I struggle with either/or propositions. Too Conflict Theory for me and life is much more complicated than the drivel Marx delivered to the world. I can't say one has no impact on the other. Nor can I say one is completely causing the other. I don't like looking at public education as a business because a public university should benefit the greater public. The business only has to benefit the shareholders and consumers. 

 

College athletics are a convenient target right now, and a big reason for that is a LOT of the faculty is very jealous of sports. My high school was the same way. But college athletics are a drop in the bucket as far as university spending goes.

 

It's easy to take what is budgeted, and divide that by what 450? 500? student athletes. To be honest you also need a head count of student sports fans who attend the games for recreation, and try to factor in the name recognition and publicity it brings.  But you also have to consider the network TV money football brings in, the away games at FB$ stadiums, and ticket revenue. Football revenue covers a substantial part of the athletic department's budget. Imagine if the team were successful and the university had the foggiest idea about advertising and marketing it... 

 

Then we could compare that to the costs and student utilization of (for starters) the busses, the bowling alley, the pool hall, the theater, the workout facility, the rock climbing wall, the indoor pool. That's a good start.

 

Then we can look into things like, why the University spent $22,679,000 on Quaker Square, so they could evict all of the small businesses in there. Then spend an untold amount of money converting the hotel into dorms that would only be used a couple years before they locked the doors and left it sit empty.  We could go on questioning university spending all week, without even getting started on the Scar's spending.

 

Athletics are a drop in the budget. Bucket. Something like that...

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Spin

[adzip]

To JZIP- the credits from Akron are quite transferrable. It is not difficult to transfer credits. Akron accepts credits routinely from institutions where the education is no where near as solid as Akron. The University of Akron is a strong institution of higher learning with many outstanding programs- too many to outline in this post ( I do not currently work for The University although I did). In fact, it is stronger today than it has been in earlier eras. The University of Akron's "image" suffers from a lack of ambition on the part of some University leaders (and some students) in telling its story. Hopefully that is over. Its "image" will improve if we can win some football games. Its a shame that football wins figure into this but it does. Akron grads are often preferred by employers because of their pragmatic attitude, strong work ethic, and their solid knowledge. No sense of "entitlement"- no excuses just a willingness to work hard and a get a job done.

I believe GP1 has the right outlook on the athletic issue. The pandemic has forced the issue as he points out. This is not a problem at The University of Akron- it is a national issue that affects scores of institutions. There are hints that collective action is being considered by groups of colleges. Hopefully they will come to some common solution that will have to be considered by the NCAA. When the NCAA allowed Central Michigan a TWO YEAR waiver on the minimum number of male sports, it suggests a necessary crack in their absurd policies. 

[ZipsVoice]

2 hours ago, JZIP said:

Not many universities accept transfer credits from akron because of how poor of a reputation we have.

Tell me what universities will not accept transfer credits from Akron, please.  Also, what degree paths they will not accept credits from.  And while at it, please post the majors of your friends that were cut by U of A.  This statement seems disingenuous.  Please provide facts. 

[72 Roo]

4 hours ago, Spin said:

 

College athletics are a convenient target right now, and a big reason for that is a LOT of the faculty is very jealous of sports. My high school was the same way. But college athletics are a drop in the bucket as far as university spending goes.

 

It's easy to take what is budgeted, and divide that by what 450? 500? student athletes. To be honest you also need a head count of student sports fans who attend the games for recreation, and try to factor in the name recognition and publicity it brings.  But you also have to consider the network TV money football brings in, the away games at FB$ stadiums, and ticket revenue. Football revenue covers a substantial part of the athletic department's budget. Imagine if the team were successful and the university had the foggiest idea about advertising and marketing it... 

 

Then we could compare that to the costs and student utilization of (for starters) the busses, the bowling alley, the pool hall, the theater, the workout facility, the rock climbing wall, the indoor pool. That's a good start.

 

Then we can look into things like, why the University spent $22,679,000 on Quaker Square, so they could evict all of the small businesses in there. Then spend an untold amount of money converting the hotel into dorms that would only be used a couple years before they locked the doors and left it sit empty.  We could go on questioning university spending all week, without even getting started on the Scar's spending.

 

Athletics are a drop in the budget. Bucket. Something like that...

 

Spin, you hit on a good point here. U of A seems to repeatedly make bad decisions that go back to the board of trustees accepting w/o question what the administration recommends. It has gone on for decades such as, but not limited to:

• The design of the JAR. The architect had never designed an arena and it showed.
• The design of the business building. Only one elevator, low hall ceilings, one back stair that no one can find, a front facade that looks like bricked up windows, a style (New Mexico abode) totally foreign to the university and the city, wasted space with an atrium that offered little usable space in the entrance.
• The purchase of the Polsky building that cost was doubled due to asbestos removal and then still went way over budget in renovation. It was a sweetheart deal for the city, but it took students away from the core of the university. A similar sized building could have been built across Exchange for 1/3 the cost.

Add Quaker Square and you see that the B of T's have no governance ability. They give the president whatever he wants because they have no stake in the university and don't care.

 

BTW, to GP1 if he has read this far (thanks), athletics does not represent 1% to UA. Last year it was 8% of the total budget.

 

[GP1]

10 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

BTW, to GP1 if he has read this far (thanks), athletics does not represent 1% to UA. Last year it was 8% of the total budget.

Yes.  Thank you.  I was in the fog of posting while listening to Yacht Rock Radio yesterday and got my numbers wrong. Thanks for the correction.

[Captain Kangaroo]

32 minutes ago, GP1 said:

Yes.  Thank you.  I was in the fog of posting while listening to Yacht Rock Radio yesterday and got my numbers wrong. Thanks for the correction.

How much Boz Scaggs and Orleans can one man take?

[NWAkron]

10 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

Spin, you hit on a good point here. U of A seems to repeatedly make bad decisions that go back to the board of trustees accepting w/o question what the administration recommends. It has gone on for decades such as, but not limited to:

• The design of the JAR. The architect had never designed an arena and it showed.
• The design of the business building. Only one elevator, low hall ceilings, one back stair that no one can find, a front facade that looks like bricked up windows, a style (New Mexico abode) totally foreign to the university and the city, wasted space with an atrium that offered little usable space in the entrance.
• The purchase of the Polsky building that cost was doubled due to asbestos removal and then still went way over budget in renovation. It was a sweetheart deal for the city, but it took students away from the core of the university. A similar sized building could have been built across Exchange for 1/3 the cost.

Add Quaker Square and you see that the B of T's have no governance ability. They give the president whatever he wants because they have no stake in the university and don't care.

 

BTW, to GP1 if he has read this far (thanks), athletics does not represent 1% to UA. Last year it was 8% of the total budget.

 

I love the J.A.R.!!

[GP1]

39 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

How much Boz Scaggs and Orleans can one man take?

It's all worth it when a Steely Dan song comes on.

 

http://avidxchangemusicfactory.com/

 

One night the luckiest woman in the world, Mrs. GP1, and I went up to the NC Music Factory, or whatever they call it now to see Enrage Against The Machine at The Underground (below is a video of them playing at The Fillmore). We went to Small Bar for a couple of beers before the show and there were a bunch of people walking around in sailors caps, and I mean a ton of people. Obviously not a group of people looking to go see a Rage Against the Machine cover band. As it turns out, they were there to see Yacht Rock Review at The Fillmore. The show was completely sold out and there were middle age people, probably the swingers crowds from Lake Norman, paying a ton of money to scalpers to go. Very strange mix of people.

 

North Carolina has some great 90s tribute bands and every year the Music Factory has an all day event called Grunge Fest. If you like that kind of music, it is a must see. Throughout the year, they have Saturday night concerts with 1-2 of the bands that play it as entertainment/promotion called Road to Grunge Fest.  People from all over, including Ohio, should go.

 

[72 Roo]

4 hours ago, GP1 said:

Yes.  Thank you.  I was in the fog of posting while listening to Yacht Rock Radio yesterday and got my numbers wrong. Thanks for the correction.

Glad to help, especially to someone who has a grasp of our history and who has joined me in killing off a few brain cells with tasty beverages.

[clarkwgriswold]

4 hours ago, NWAkron said:

I love the J.A.R.!!

 

You are hereby sentenced to watching a game from the upper level through the glass railing for the entire 2020-21 season.

[NWAkron]

40 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

You are hereby sentenced to watching a game from the upper level through the glass railing for the entire 2020-21 season.

Who's to say i haven't done that?  Actually, during some tense moments when the Zips are down by 7 or 8 early in the second half I often remove myself to the bleachers.