Smaller, Leaner athletic program...

[LZIp]

Looking at those figures, we've ramped up football spending, but are only slightly above conference median. Those figures also don't show any student fees going to athletics, which we know isn't correct.

Edited April 25, 2020 by LZIp

[kreed5120]

If you cut football, you're also cutting all the revenue that comes with football (cfp money, tv deal, buy game guarantees, ticket sales, advertisements, etc). Football probably is responsible for 70%, if not more, of the athletics non-subsidy revenue. Outside of Infocision, which we're stuck paying regardless of what we do, football is the closest thing we have to a revenue neutral sport.

 

There is still plenty of fat to trim from the football program though. For one our coach shouldn't be making $500k. Assistant salaries are bloated too. At a $500k salary a coach should be packing Infocision. We haven't been getting that.

 

The athletic student aid section is heavily inflated IMO. The school charges the athletic department the full cost of attendance, but the marginal cost of rooming and boarding ~400 extra scholarship athletes is less than ~30k per student. Besides schools are in the business of educating. What bothers me is the money that gets blown on coaches, administration, and over the top facility upgrades. 

[DannyHoke]

11 minutes ago, LZIp said:

Looking at those figures, we've ramped up football spending, but are only slightly above conference median. Those figures also don't show any student fees going to athletics, which we know isn't correct.

 

Student Fees are there - it's called institutional support.

 

Athletics Donors give 1.87m (5%) annually

Ticket Sales are 1.38m (4%) annually

 

Student Fees provide $24.29m (70%) annually

Yeah, Student Fees are 7x the amount of total donors and tickets sold.

 

Perhaps the U of A should be more concerned with keeping students in a period of declining enrollment, and not loading the students down with fees to fund the athletics department.

 

Move to D2 and be the best at it in the nation.  

 

 

 

 

 

[DannyHoke]

8 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

If you cut football, you're also cutting all the revenue that comes with football (cfp money, tv deal, buy game guarantees, ticket sales, advertisements, etc). Football probably is responsible for 70%, if not more, of the athletics non-subsidy revenue. Outside of Infocision, which we're stuck paying regardless of what we do, football is the closest thing we have to a revenue neutral sport.

 

There is still plenty of fat to trim from the football program though. For one our coach shouldn't be making $500k. Assistant salaries are bloated too. At a $500k salary a coach should be packing Infocision. We haven't been getting that.

 

The athletic student aid section is heavily inflated IMO. The school charges the athletic department the full cost of attendance, but the marginal cost of rooming and boarding ~400 extra scholarship athletes is less than ~30k per student. Besides schools are in the business of educating. What bothers me is the money that gets blown on coaches, administration, and over the top facility upgrades. 

 

 

Do you have these big figures that you speak of?

 

cfp money/tv deal >  3.47m = NCAA/Conference Distributions

buy game guarantees > 1m for football out of the 1.3 on the chart

ticket sales > I will give you 100% of the total listed, 1.38m on the chart 

advertisements? We will round up to $1m

 

That's 6.85m, and that's assuming we have no $ for ticket sales for basketball and soccer.  And please, if the football total here is likely less than 400K... no one goes to the games.

 

Football Expenses are around 12m.

 

Hmmm. 12m - 6.85m = 5.15M of net savings.

 

Focus on Basketball and Soccer.  Heck, you can even give Baseball some scholarships and they can go .500 and play in front of absolutely no paying fans.  Great use of funds there Larry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kreed5120]

18 minutes ago, DannyHoke said:

 

 

Do you have these big figures that you speak of?

 

cfp money/tv deal >  3.47m = NCAA/Conference Distributions

buy game guarantees > 1m for football out of the 1.3 on the chart

ticket sales > I will give you 100% of the total listed, 1.38m on the chart 

advertisements? We will round up to $1m

 

That's 6.85m, and that's assuming we have no $ for ticket sales for basketball and soccer.  And please, if the football total here is likely less than 400K... no one goes to the games.

 

Football Expenses are around 12m.

 

Hmmm. 12m - 6.85m = 5.15M of net savings.

 

Focus on Basketball and Soccer.  Heck, you can even give Baseball some scholarships and they can go .500 and play in front of absolutely no paying fans.  Great use of funds there Larry.

 

That 12 million includes 4.3 million for the football stadium. Eliminating the football program in its entirety reduces 7.7 million in expenses, not 12 million. A buy game is going for 1.25 million. We could and should be scheduling 2 of those per year. That would be an additional 1.25 million in revenue above the numbers you posted. I also mentioned cutting coaching salaries.

 

Edit: Not to mention the additional travel costs for the other sports If we left the MAC as no other conference is as good as a regional fit for us as the MAC.

Edited April 25, 2020 by kreed5120

[LZIp]

Obviously this is a very passionate discussion for most on here. Unsure how much of a difference, if any, it might make right now, but if anyone wants their voice heard I might recommend considering making a restricted donation to the sport(s) of your preference.

https://gozips.com/sports/2017/5/25/zfund-Ways-to-Give-Sport-Specific.aspx 

Edited April 26, 2020 by LZIp

[ZippyRulz]

3 hours ago, UA1987 said:

I didn't want to say it as it is a good program, but track and field has to be on the chopping block. 

 

Can someone remind me, did the outdoor track ever get fixed up? If not, that would be a factor.

 

[LZIp]

6 minutes ago, ZippyRulz said:

 

Can someone remind me, did the outdoor track ever get fixed up? If not, that would be a factor.

 

Not to my knowledge. An estimate repair cost of $1mm, IIRC.

Edited April 26, 2020 by LZIp

[NWAkron]

12 minutes ago, LZIp said:

Not to my knowledge. An estimate repair cost of $1mm, IIRC.

Track and Field is very successful.  Two pole vaulting Olympians.  But they also use up a lot of scholarship money.  Rifle, women's VB, men's golf seem like low hanging fruit.

[LZIp]

8 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

Track and Field is very successful.  Two pole vaulting Olympians. 

Not to mention 800m Olympic medalist Clayton Murphy.

[72 Roo]

I hate the idea of cutting T & F. It makes me sick. We have a top 25 program with a great coaching staff and a great indoor facility. Their indoor meets do generate revenue and with a repaired outdoor facility we could also generate some income. Before I touch Track I would cut baseball, softball, W Lacrosse and Golf. If title IX allows I'd cut volley ball or tennis too. Granted that's a big "if". That may put us at the bare minimum of sponsored sports, but I fear it won't save enough money. 

 

There will be no help or sympathy from the P5 schools or the NCAA. I would love to see the G5 schools break away, but it will only work if they all go. So it won't happen. We are looking at a fundamental and irreversible change in Akron athletics. One that I fear will destroy any across the board following Akron now enjoys.

[ziptrumpet87]

The Akron Men's University.

[DannyHoke]

14 hours ago, NWAkron said:

If they eliminate tennis, swim team, volleyball, most the good looking women will be eliminated as well.  Another factor to consider?

 

Athletics Donors give 1.87m (5%) annually

Ticket Sales are 1.38m (4%) annually

 

Student Fees provide $24.29m (70%) annually

Yeah, Student Fees are 7x the amount of total donors and tickets sold.

 

Perhaps the U of A should be more concerned with keeping students in a period of declining enrollment, and not loading the students down with fees to fund the athletics department.

 

[DannyHoke]

11 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

I hate the idea of cutting T & F. It makes me sick. We have a top 25 program with a great coaching staff and a great indoor facility. Their indoor meets do generate revenue and with a repaired outdoor facility we could also generate some income. Before I touch Track I would cut baseball, softball, W Lacrosse and Golf. If title IX allows I'd cut volley ball or tennis too. Granted that's a big "if". That may put us at the bare minimum of sponsored sports, but I fear it won't save enough money. 

 

Your plan will put Akron in Title IX Jail.  You cannot cut 3 scholarship women's sports and non scholarship baseball.

 

Athletics programs are considered educational programs and activities. There are three basic parts of Title IX as it applies to athletics: 

 

Participation: Title IX requires that women and men be provided equitable opportunities to participate in sports. Title IX does not require institutions to offer identical sports but an equal opportunity to play;                          

 

Scholarships: Title IX requires that female and male student-athletes receive athletics scholarship dollars proportional to their participation;  (Akron is more or less 50/50 gender split)        

               

Other benefits: Title IX requires the equal treatment of female and male student-athletes in the provisions of: (a) equipment and supplies; (b) scheduling of games and practice times; (c) travel and daily allowance/per diem; (d) access to tutoring; (e) coaching, (f) locker rooms, practice and competitive facilities; (g) medical and training facilities and services; (h) housing and dining facilities and services; (i) publicity and promotions; (j) support services and (k) recruitment of student-athletes.

 

Division I member institutions have to sponsor at least seven sports for men and seven for women (or six for men and eight for women) with two team sports for each gender. Each playing season has to be represented by each gender as well. There are contest and participant minimums for each sport, as well as scheduling criteria. Football Bowl Subdivision schools are usually fairly elaborate programs. Football Bowl Subdivision teams have to meet minimum attendance requirements (average 15,000 people in actual or paid attendance per home game), which must be met once in a rolling two-year period. NCAA Football Championship Subdivision teams do not need to meet minimum attendance requirements. Division I schools must meet minimum financial aid awards for their athletics program, and there are maximum financial aid awards for each sport that a Division I school cannot exceed.

 

Division II institutions have to sponsor at least five sports for men and five for women, (or four for men and six for women), with two team sports for each gender, and each playing season represented by each gender. There are maximum financial aid awards for each sport that a Division II school must not exceed. Division II teams usually feature a number of local or in-state student-athletes. Many Division II student-athletes pay for school through a combination of scholarship money, grants, student loans and employment earnings. Division II athletics programs are financed in the institution's budget like other academic departments on campus. Traditional rivalries with regional institutions dominate schedules of many Division II athletics programs.

 

Division III institutions have to sponsor at least five sports for men and five for women, with two team sports for each gender, and each playing season represented by each gender. There are minimum contest and participant minimums for each sport. Division III athletics features student-athletes who receive no financial aid related to their athletic ability and athletic departments are staffed and funded like any other department in the university. Division III athletics departments place special importance on the impact of athletics on the participants rather than on the spectators. The student-athlete's experience is of paramount concern. Division III athletics encourages participation by maximizing the number and variety of athletics opportunities available to students, placing primary emphasis on regional in-season and conference competition.

 

 

[DannyHoke]

https://www.sportsmanagementresources.com/library/proper-use-and-abuse-roster-management

 

Men's Basketball - 13             Women's Basketball - 15

Men's Soccer - 25                   Women's Soccer - 23

Men's Baseball - 33                Women's Softball  - 21          

Men's Golf - 8                          Women's Golf - 10

Men's Tennis - 8                      Women's Tennis - 10

Men's Rifle - 7                          Women's Rifle - 9

 

If the NCAA would allow schools to restructure with FOOTBALL, BASKETBALL, BASEBALL, SOFTBALL, ICE HOCKEY and VOLLEYBALL being the only Varsity Level Sports and all others reclassifying to CLUB SPORT STATUS that would work as well.  Akron currently sponsors 31 club sports... https://www.uakron.edu/rec/club-sports/current-sports

  

Edited April 26, 2020 by DannyHoke

[a-zip]

16 hours ago, DannyHoke said:

 

Perhaps you can learn mouse math, understand how budgets work, and how NCAA rules apply.  I give you facts and you do not like them, so you attack the reality.

 

Budget is $34,900,000

 

You need to cut $6.98 million per the President's directive.

 

You are already dealing with an $8 million reduction in subsidies from the university under the previous “Action Plan", which has not been transparent and no one knows what all has been cut.  To Brother Lee Adams' post, there is no fat on the bone, and the current athletics management personnel have run in the red every year they have been in charge.  In fact, the last balanced budget at Akron Athletics was in 1999-00 so it's closing in on 20 years of running in the red.  

 

Reality is D1 Athletics is not working at Akron, fiscally speaking.

 

Counter that with facts...

 

 

????

[clarkwgriswold]

26 minutes ago, DannyHoke said:

 

Athletics Donors give 1.87m (5%) annually

Ticket Sales are 1.38m (4%) annually

 

Student Fees provide $24.29m (70%) annually

Yeah, Student Fees are 7x the amount of total donors and tickets sold.

 

Perhaps the U of A should be more concerned with keeping students in a period of declining enrollment, and not loading the students down with fees to fund the athletics department.

 

 

Is that the total of Student Fees or the portion that goes to athletics?

[LZIp]

21 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

Is that the total of Student Fees or the portion that goes to athletics?

That is neither....that is the total amount of institutional support the University provides the athletic programs. Hoke is certainly doing some embellishing pushing the student fees narrative.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by LZIp

[LZIp]

Some more numbers: https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/2020/02/why-university-of-akron-outpaces-other-ohio-schools-in-subsidizing-its-sports-program.html

 

[LZIp]

#1 priority should be increasing enrollment. We had 19k in enrollment in fall of 2019 as opposed to 26k in fall of 2014 and 30k in 2010. The U spent all that money expecting 30k+ enrollment and now we are down close to half of our peak. Its no wonder we are in the position we are now. Increasing enrollment fixes everything. Unfortunately the constant turnover and bad PR over the past ~7 years makes it a hell of a lot harder than it needs to be!

[DannyHoke]

1 hour ago, LZIp said:

That is neither....that is the total amount of institutional support the University provides the athletic programs. Hoke is certainly doing some embellishing pushing the student fees narrative.

 

I push no narrative, I give you facts.  

 

The University of Akron paid for its $34.9 million sports program last year in large part with a $24.3 million university contribution from non-athletic sources, the school reported in its financial filing with the NCAA for the 2017-2018 school year.

 

The subsidy was reported as “direct institutional support.” This includes, according to NCAA reporting requirements, any support the school provided to the athletic department from state money, tuition, tuition discounts, federal work study programs and more.

 

The subsidy amounted to 70 percent of Akron’s sports budget.

 

Based on Akron’s total enrollment, the $24.3 million subsidy amounted to $1,359 per student. Ohio State is the only public university in Ohio that operates its athletic program without a subsidy from non-athletic sources.

 

No matter how you spin this Akron Athletics is losing money, has been losing money since the move to Division I, and without this ATHLETICS TAX on the students there would not be enough money to fund the program at the current levels.  If you cannot see this, you are blind and cannot add and subtract. Low ticket sales and low donations = low interest.  Truth hurts.

 

 

 

[Spin]

17 hours ago, NWAkron said:

Here's a fact: U of A moves to D2, there goes soccer, basketball, and a huge donor base.  

And network TV revenue, pay from games against big schools, non-alumni attendance, radio and TV coverage, and lower travel expenses by having most of the conference foes a short drive away...

[Spin]

1 hour ago, LZIp said:

#1 priority should be increasing enrollment. We had 19k in enrollment in fall of 2019 as opposed to 26k in fall of 2014 and 30k in 2010. The U spent all that money expecting 30k+ enrollment and now we are down close to half of our peak. Its no wonder we are in the position we are now. Increasing enrollment fixes everything. Unfortunately the constant turnover and bad PR over the past ~7 years makes it a hell of a lot harder than it needs to be!

Competition has hurt too. Having a community college “right next door” (and in Barberton) has done a number on enrollment. Both for the two year programs, and for four year students looking at a more cost conscious first two years (I went to Wayne and Medina to save money).
 

These students who go to Stark don’t feel a bond with Akron like Wayne/Medina/Polsky students. KSU and CSU are just as much in their decision making as Akron.
 

 

 

[zips1989]

Can someone answer this.. can you play Football at DIv 2 or 3 and till play Div one in all other sports?

[NWAkron]

26 minutes ago, Spin said:

And network TV revenue, pay from games against big schools, non-alumni attendance, radio and TV coverage, and lower travel expenses by having most of the conference foes a short drive away...

If two athletic programs need to be cut, so be it.  But moving to D2 as someone keeps mentioning on here would be a non-starter for the community and alumni much like "OPU" was back in the day.   Being a D1 school is a selling point.   Miller was probably figuring out a diplomatic way to make cuts through his 5 year plan.  Now, he doesn't have to be so diplomatic and has the excuse to make the tough changes quickly.