Week 9 vs Buffalo - 12pm EST (TV - CBSSN)

[Lee Adams]

On 11/3/2024 at 8:57 PM, catdaddyp said:

The 2022 recruiting class has already produced 6 All-MAC players. More than any other school in the conference from that class. The 2023 class has so far produced Nunnally and soon to be Norton, barring something drastic. That’ll already be 8 All-MAC players from his first two classes that he brought in. Might want to find a different spin on why the team isn’t winning. 

I am constantly confused.Not questioning the stats. But if there is that much 'talent' on the team what is causing that talent to not win games? Is the talent being 'used' properly? When I watch the games I think I see individuals who are good ball players at this level. Whats missing? Help.

[Lee Adams]

On 11/4/2024 at 9:15 AM, GP1 said:

I don't know if I'm coming around, just observing. 

 

I'm starting to think that Zips fans are becoming more and more like Browns fans. I realize there are crossovers. I remember when the Browns just weren't good, they were World Championship contenders. They had great players all over the field. They were a play or two from going to the Super Bowl with a level of talent to win it all, but that was 2-3 generations now. 

 

I'm old enough to remember when the Zips were good. They weren't great like Marshall, NIU and Miami back in the day, but they were close. In fact, they were close enough to win the MAC once. Akron has had lots of very good players....I can't believe I forgot to name Matt Cherry and Butchie Washington above...shame on me, but there are lots of good players I probably forgot or the list is too long to name them all. Want to feel old and realize how long ago that was? Charlie Frye and Luke Getsy are now 43 and 40 respectively. For those of you who are old enough to remember them and watch the Zips now, can you say with a straight face that what you watched Saturday is the same level of ability to compete in the MAC for four quarters as back then? To me, the talent isn't nearly the same. The ability to compete physically and mentally isn't the same. 

 

Before anyone starts leaving stats again, I'll leave you with your crutch. I know what I see and it isn't good. 

If you really want to feel old, tell me you were at the 2 DII playoff games at the Bowl back in the '70s. Tell me you saw teams that Gordon Larson coached. Those teams won at the level they were playing at. Always at least competitive. They had the talent and coaching to compete at that level. Shoot, Lee Owens was at least competitive when he was here. Had a losing record overall but had some good seasons. JD was able to gather enough talented players to win a MAC championship and beat some legit DI programs. I just don't get not being able to at least be more competitive.

Edited November 5 by Lee Adams
typo

[Hilltopper]

28 minutes ago, Lee Adams said:

If you really want to feel old, tell me you were at the 2 DII playoff games at the Bowl back in the '70s. Tell me you saw teams that Gordon Larson coached. Those teams won at the level they were playing at. Always at least competitive. They had the talent and coaching to compete at that level. Shoot, Lee Owens was at least competitive when he was here. Had a losing record overall but had some good seasons. JD was able to gather enough talented players to win a MAC championship and beat some legit DI programs. I just don't get not being able to at least be more competitive.

I witnessed all those teams you are speaking of. The game has changed at a remarkable pace. All the way from youth football to the pros. UA should have never entered the arms race of major college football. We were never going to be able to compete, nor did we have the willpower. Even in those bygone eras we were always a basketball school. If you want to place blame, put it on Bill Muse. That started this pipedream.

[GP1]

2 hours ago, Lee Adams said:

I just don't get not being able to at least be more competitive.

I get it. It's plainly obvious to me. The way the program is viewed and managed from the Athletic Director up to and including the President level is not designed to win. They treat the football program as the fundraising arm of the athletic department. 

[GP1]

2 hours ago, Hilltopper said:

 UA should have never entered the arms race of major college football. We were never going to be able to compete, nor did we have the willpower.

Looking back, you are correct. I think it was more than willpower.... The University didn't have a single person in it who had any idea what it would take to jump a level. The weight room was in the basement of the basketball arena. The NCAA basically begged Akron not to make the jump by restricting scholarships. Dennison was never the person we needed as AD. There was zero money. The Rubber Bowl was already a mess in 1987. 

 

This is a question I would love to have answered. Who was the first person at the University to think hiring Faust and moving up was a good idea?  My follow up question would be, who did that person run the idea by and what was was the response? I guess that's two more questions. There had to be a core group of people who thought it was a good idea. Who were they?

 

I wonder if guys like Joe Dunn or Steve French would know this. 

Edited November 6 by GP1

[catdaddyp]

16 hours ago, Lee Adams said:

I am constantly confused.Not questioning the stats. But if there is that much 'talent' on the team what is causing that talent to not win games? Is the talent being 'used' properly? When I watch the games I think I see individuals who are good ball players at this level. Whats missing? Help.

I think it’s an accountability and attention to detail problem. Or that could be summed up as discipline. Here are a few examples:

 

- No matter the name on the back of the jersey from 2022-2024, we still consistently see pre and post snap penalties - and usually at crucial times. It will seemingly get cleaned up for a game and then pop right back up shortly thereafter.

- Off the top of my head, we’ve had at least 6 players (current staff recruits) transfer out due to grade issues. At least 3 of them would have been starters this year. 

- We see the young players and/or backups come in and flash their potential just to be followed by major gaffs. That means they either aren’t getting enough reps at practice, aren’t paying attention, or are not being held accountable.

- Turnovers and ball protection have been an issue more often than not. We’ve lost the turnover battle in MAC play 11 to 4. 

 

All of the above is correctable. Will it be? I don’t know. If it is, we’ll see some victories to close out the year. 

 

I didn’t see a Buffalo team any more talented than us. I saw a Buffalo team much more disciplined than us.

 

Edited November 6 by catdaddyp

[LZIp]

19 minutes ago, catdaddyp said:

I think it’s an accountability and attention to detail problem. Or that could be summed up as discipline. Here are a few examples:

 

- No matter the name on the back of the jersey from 2022-2024, we still consistently see pre and post snap penalties - and usually at crucial times. It will seemingly get cleaned up for a game and then pop right back up shortly thereafter.

- Off the top of my head, we’ve had at least 6 players (current staff recruits) transfer out due to grade issues. At least 3 of them would have been starters this year. 

- We see the young players and/or backups come in and flash their potential just to be followed by major gaffs. That means they either aren’t getting enough reps at practice, aren’t paying attention, or are not being held accountable.

- Turnovers and ball protection have been an issue more often than not. We’ve lost the turnover battle in MAC play 11 to 4. 

 

All of the above is correctable. Will it be? I don’t know. If it is, we’ll see some victories to close out the year. 

 

I didn’t see a Buffalo team any more talented than us. I saw a Buffalo team much more disciplined than us.

 

I'm in agreement with you. Sure some other teams in the conference may be marginally more talented than us - not unexpected, but our biggest issue is what I'd consider culture related. Attention to detail, using your head, accountability. Joe Mo seemed to have similar issues at Miss St.  Its on the coaching staff to change this, but isn't easy when most of these players have not had success in their college careers nd don't know what it takes to be winners. As Mike Tomlin says, the standard is the standard. The Steelers have lacked talent on the offensive side of the ball for a handful of years, but they find ways to win because they play smart and accountable football.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Years ago...maybe during the Brookhart era...we were playing Kent (at Kent). 

 

The Zips were forced to punt from their own endzone late in the 4th quarter. If Kent just let the punt drop on the field, they could run out the clock and win the game.

 

The Kent return man tried to field the ball, dropped it, the Zips recovered and won the game. Completely improbable.

 

This era of Zips football reminds me of that Kent team. Or the Morgan State team that could have beaten the Zips last year if they just took a knee instead of running it and giving the Zips a scoop 6 on the ensuing fumble.

 

The Zips do stupid things. Incomprehensibly botched executions of fundamentals. And it is repeatable. Dropped handoffs to close-out games against CMU and Buffalo 2 years ago. Missed 31 yard FG's to beat Indiana. Three turnovers + a turnover on downs against Buffalo last week...in the first quarter! Weekly fumbled punts...

 

If you're a Zips opponent, just hang around long enough against them and they'll beat themselves. 

[Lee Adams]

On 11/6/2024 at 9:10 AM, catdaddyp said:

I think it’s an accountability and attention to detail problem. Or that could be summed up as discipline. Here are a few examples:

 

- No matter the name on the back of the jersey from 2022-2024, we still consistently see pre and post snap penalties - and usually at crucial times. It will seemingly get cleaned up for a game and then pop right back up shortly thereafter.

- Off the top of my head, we’ve had at least 6 players (current staff recruits) transfer out due to grade issues. At least 3 of them would have been starters this year. 

- We see the young players and/or backups come in and flash their potential just to be followed by major gaffs. That means they either aren’t getting enough reps at practice, aren’t paying attention, or are not being held accountable.

- Turnovers and ball protection have been an issue more often than not. We’ve lost the turnover battle in MAC play 11 to 4. 

 

All of the above is correctable. Will it be? I don’t know. If it is, we’ll see some victories to close out the year. 

 

I didn’t see a Buffalo team any more talented than us. I saw a Buffalo team much more disciplined than us.

 

IF 'discipline' is as big an issue as it appears to be shouldn't that have been corrected by the coaching staff after almost 3 seasons? I would figure the answer would be 'yes'. As far as if anymore wins this year, there is NIU on the road. I have watched them twice on TV. Thats a tough, rugged football team. Their record probably isn't what it should be. But, they did beat ND and just beat WMU and BGSU. Not a likely win. End the season with Toledo who is still in the hunt. Ahhh...no.

KSU, now thats possible.

On top of this, a lot is going to depend on the attitude of the players. If they figure this coaching staff may be gone after this season, hard to tell what the level of motivation might be.