Staying Close to the Vest - Coach Groce-related News and Views

[Zippy87]

 

Leiendecker was determined to hire someone he knew, someone from Butler. And he hired his former teammate. Look at the search. The other finalist was one of Matta's Butler assistants in 2001, John Groce, a mid-major coach with solid results and a large NIL fund, which means he’s competing with more resources than most of the MAC.

[kreed5120]

21 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

Leiendecker was determined to hire someone he knew, someone from Butler. And he hired his former teammate. Look at the search. The other finalist was one of Matta's Butler assistants in 2001, John Groce, a mid-major coach with solid results and a large NIL fund, which means he’s competing with more resources than most of the MAC.

 

That last bit doesn't seem to do Groce justice IMO. Akron finished #54 in NET and currently sits at #69 in Kenpom. There are 85 schools in the P4 + Big East. I imagine it's fair to say all of them had more NIL than Akron. Probably 3x-10x as much. Add in many teams from the A10, MWC, MVC, AAC, WCC, and some one offs like High Point/Liberty that outspent Akron and Akron might have had ~130-150 highest payroll in college basketball. Fielding a top 75 team while spending around the median amount in college hoops is still excellent. Very few programs likely got a better bang for their buck.

Edited 5 hours ago by kreed5120

[Zippy87]

25 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

That last bit doesn't seem to do Groce justice IMO. Akron finished #54 in NET and currently sits at #69 in Kenpom. There are 85 schools in the P4 + Big East. I imagine it's fair to say all of them had more NIL than Akron. Probably 3x-10x as much. Add in many teams from the A10, MWC, MVC, AAC, WCC, and some one offs like High Point/Liberty that outspent Akron and Akron might have had ~130-150 highest payroll in college basketball. Fielding a top 75 team while spending around the median amount in college hoops is still excellent. Very few programs likely got a better bang for their buck.

 

I agree, but I do think it is the perception in other fan bases outside of the MAC. 

[dirtyolcrowe]

1 hour ago, Zippy87 said:

I wonder how Bud Wentz factors into all of this. From afar, it seems he and Groce have become very close over the years. 

Money does wonders!!!

[kreed5120]

16 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

 

I agree, but I do think it is the perception in other fan bases outside of the MAC. 

If it keeps Groce in Akron I won't fight the narrative.

[ZippyRulz]

1 hour ago, Zippy87 said:

 

Leiendecker was determined to hire someone he knew, someone from Butler. And he hired his former teammate. Look at the search. The other finalist was one of Matta's Butler assistants in 2001, John Groce, a mid-major coach with solid results and a large NIL fund, which means he’s competing with more resources than most of the MAC.

 

I know Butler has had some success but are they truly a high major?

[UAZipster0305]

48 minutes ago, ZippyRulz said:

 

I know Butler has had some success but are they truly a high major?

Not since Brad Stevens left, and the days of high majors running to the Final Four or NCAA Championship are long gone and not coming back.

Edited 3 hours ago by UAZipster0305

[kreed5120]

Thad Matta was getting paid $2.6 million/yr. They might appear poor compared to UConn, but they have a lot more resources at their disposal compared to a mid-major program like Akron or Kent. If a program like Nebraska/Iowa can make a run to the Elite 8 I wouldn't see why Butler couldn't.

 

They might not be able to keep their coach after doing it so it might not be sustainable year over year and certainly not the standard, but they can still get there.

[Zippy87]

37 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

Thad Matta was getting paid $2.6 million/yr. They might appear poor compared to UConn, but they have a lot more resources at their disposal compared to a mid-major program like Akron or Kent. If a program like Nebraska/Iowa can make a run to the Elite 8 I wouldn't see why Butler couldn't.

 

They might not be able to keep their coach after doing it so it might not be sustainable year over year and certainly not the standard, but they can still get there.

 

 

[kreed5120]

4 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

 

 

$9 million NIL yet some on this board think it's a mid-major job lol. For comparison it's believed UMass led the MAC with $1.3M-$1.5M spend.

Edited 2 hours ago by kreed5120

[Let'sGoZips94]

Edited 2 hours ago by Let'sGoZips94

[AkronAlumnus]

51 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

Thad Matta was getting paid $2.6 million/yr. They might appear poor compared to UConn, but they have a lot more resources at their disposal compared to a mid-major program like Akron or Kent. If a program like Nebraska/Iowa can make a run to the Elite 8 I wouldn't see why Butler couldn't.

 

They might not be able to keep their coach after doing it so it might not be sustainable year over year and certainly not the standard, but they can still get there.

Nebraska and Iowa aren’t comparable to Butler in terms of scale:

 

Butler has ~5.8k students

Iowa has ~30k students

Nebraska has ~ 50k students

 

That’s 5–8x the enrollment, which translates directly into much larger alumni bases and NIL donor pools.

 

I somewhat agree that Butler can make a run, but it’s not operating with anything close to the same structural resources as a B1G program.

[kreed5120]

11 minutes ago, AkronAlumnus said:

Nebraska and Iowa aren’t comparable to Butler in terms of scale:

 

Butler has ~5.8k students

Iowa has ~30k students

Nebraska has ~ 50k students

 

That’s 5–8x the enrollment, which translates directly into much larger alumni bases and NIL donor pools.

 

I somewhat agree that Butler can make a run, but it’s not operating with anything close to the same structural resources as a B1G program.

 

Those schools also heavily invest in football whereas Butler doesn't. For every dollar Nebraska is fundraising for MBB they're likely fundraising $2-$3 for FBS football.  Butler doesn't need to fundraise as much as Iowa or Nebraska to have a comparable MBB NIL budget as it's making hoops it's primary sport while those others are making it their distant secondary. 

 

@Zippy87 shared a post that said Butler plans to have $9 million NIL spend next year, which is more than what Nebraska or Iowa spent on this years MBB team.

Edited 2 hours ago by kreed5120

[NWAkron]

A weary ZipsNation looks to Charleston.

[zippy5]

13 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Phew, I guess "Samurai Hoops" and "Halal Higgins" weren't great sources. Who could have guessed

[AkronAlumnus]

8 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

Those schools also heavily invest in football whereas Butler doesn't. For every dollar Nebraska is fundraising for MBB they're likely fundraising $2-$3 for FBS football.  Butler doesn't need to fundraise as much as Iowa or Nebraska to have a comparable MBB NIL budget as it's making hoops it's primary sport while those others are making it their distant secondary. 

 

@Zippy87 shared a post that said Butler plans to have $9 million NIL spend next year, which is more than what Nebraska or Iowa spent on this years MBB team.

I'm with you 100% on the revenue sharing as I understand schools divide it amongst all sports.  I'd think the NIL coffers would be bigger for a litany of reasons.  

 

Even at a 3-1 football to hoops donation ratio, I'd still think B1G programs would far and away surpass - it's so hard to determine bc this stuff isn't publically accessible. 

[Westie]

17 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

A weary ZipsNation looks to Charleston.

Wouldn’t it be nice if Coach just sent us all a nice message that he’s staying? Come on Coach, end the drama!

[kreed5120]

24 minutes ago, AkronAlumnus said:

I'm with you 100% on the revenue sharing as I understand schools divide it amongst all sports.  I'd think the NIL coffers would be bigger for a litany of reasons.  

 

Even at a 3-1 football to hoops donation ratio, I'd still think B1G programs would far and away surpass - it's so hard to determine bc this stuff isn't publically accessible. 

 

Revenue share makes up a huge portion of these budgets, perhaps close to 50% of the overall player spend at these P5 schools. At least in the present state.

 

I don't feel all B1G programs are the same. What OSU or Michigan are able to collect in NIL donations is going to differ from what Nebraska or Iowa can. I guess I don't know what you mean by far and away surpass. If Nebraska has a $10 million roster spend next year and Butler has $9 million I wouldn't view that as far surpassing or be a dollar value that Butler couldn't overcome. If Butler spends $9M I'm not sure how Nebraska could 2.5x it's current figure to get to a number of close to $15M, which is around when I'd say far surpasses. At least under the current parameters.

 

Edit: If we see an increase to the revenue share cap I would be more inclined to agree. I feel an increased revenue share is where B1G and SEC programs could really flex their money. More so than donations.

Edited 1 hour ago by kreed5120

[ZippyRulz]

7-13 in the big east doesn't seem very 'high major'

[Zippy87]

58 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

HUGE!

[AkronAlumnus]

24 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

Revenue share makes up a huge portion of these budgets, perhaps close to 50% of the overall player spend at these P5 schools. At least in the present state.

 

I don't feel all B1G programs are the same. What OSU or Michigan are able to collect in NIL donations is going to differ from what Nebraska or Iowa can. I guess I don't know what you mean by far and away surpass. If Nebraska has a $10 million roster spend next year and Butler has $9 million I wouldn't view that as far surpassing or be a dollar value that Butler couldn't overcome. If Butler spends $9M I'm not sure how Nebraska could 2.5x it's current figure to get to a number of close to $15M, which is around when I'd say far surpasses. At least under the current parameters.

 

Edit: If we see an increase to the revenue share cap I would be more inclined to agree. I feel revenue share is where B1G and SEC programs could really flex their money.

Based off this year's success, I wouldn't be surprised if both schools surpass $25M next season.  I can't find any numbers but I'd guess Iowa's roster spend was north of $20M this season

 

Edit: Iowa Swarm collective website is down ATM

Edited 1 hour ago by AkronAlumnus

[AkronAlumnus]

Regardless, doesn't really matter.  Go Zips!! 

[clarkwgriswold]

I hear there's an ultralight flying of a remote clearing of grass in Hudson tonight headed for Chapel Hill, North Carolina, under the radar.  I will continue to monitor and keep everyone advised.

[zippy5]

44 minutes ago, Westie said:

Wouldn’t it be nice if Coach just sent us all a nice message that he’s staying? Come on Coach, end the drama!

There is no drama outside of this board 

[kreed5120]

15 minutes ago, AkronAlumnus said:

Based off this year's success, I wouldn't be surprised if both schools surpass $25M next season.  I can't find any numbers but I'd guess Iowa's roster spend was north of $20M this season

 

Edit: Iowa Swarm collective website is down ATM

These are the figures that I saw. No school was close to $20M player spend this year. I'm guessing top schools next year will be around ~$15 million. I'm not sure if any school hits $20 million.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by kreed5120