CSU dominating Can't

[zippyfan34]

Just got home and watching the game online and CSU is up 20 with 12 minutes to go. Looks like Evans isn't going to save their season that easily.

[RowdyZip]

Just got home and watching the game online and CSU is up 20 with 12 minutes to go. Looks like Evans isn't going to save their season that easily.

67-41 final. I liked watching it.

[RowdyZip]

Oh...and aside from that, the MAC sustained a pair of other double-digit losses tonight.Buffalo lost by 11 at 6-4 Siena of the MAAC.Toledo lost at home by 10 to 9-3 UIC of the Horizon League.This is an awful year for the conference, and a great year to be bringing up a talented young team. The conference is there for the taking.

[ZipAlumn]

A 26 point loss to CSU. I understand that CSU has a good team this year but what in the world has happened to Can't. What did Evans do in this spanking?

[w00t]

Evans had 12 on 4-of-13 shooting. Fisher had a particularly rough game (1-7, 2 points). Well done to the Vikes.I have to admit I thought that the three-headed monster of Fisher, Singletary, and Evans would end up bringing Can't another MAC title... this proves that at the very least they've got a lot of progress to make. It might be anybody's tournament in March up at the Q.

[Z.I.P.]

Evans had 12 on 4-of-13 shooting. Fisher had a particularly rough game (1-7, 2 points). Well done to the Vikes.I have to admit I thought that the three-headed monster of Fisher, Singletary, and Evans would end up bringing Can't another MAC title... this proves that at the very least they've got a lot of progress to make. It might be anybody's tournament in March up at the Q.

Beat the Sweaters, Save the World! Let that be our rallying cry.

[Quickzips]

Not ready to predict the end of the world for Can't yet (though by reading their board some of their fans seem to be). They still have a lot of talent in that backcourt and their frontcourt deficiencies will at least be masked a bit by everyone else in the MAC having the same problem. The thing that I would be concerned about right now as a Can't fan is that they don't look to be playing like a team at all. They look more like a group of individual players each trying to take over the game on their own. We've seen some puzzling OOC performances from Can't teams in the past, but you always looked at it and felt that they were pushing forward as a team and learning from it. This year they seem to be forcing the issue and not really learning much from it. I don't know if it is the coaching change, the high risk recruiting strategy, the graduation of two very good frontcourt players or what it is, but this Can't team suddenly seems very mediocre. Not to mention the fact that the defending conference POTY looks like a shell of his former self. The MAC truly is wide open this year. I like how our guys seem to be learning and adjusting every game. If we can keep that up through the MAC schedule anything is possible.

[GoZips88]

LOVE IT! Glad I checked the board real quick before heading to bed. Gary Waters is a jerk for not scheduling Akron (should be an automatic game every year; afraid of a beat-down yourself Waters?). That takes a back seat if his team or anyone else beats the crap out of Can't. ... good night all!

[Charlotte_49]

Oh...and aside from that, the MAC sustained a pair of other double-digit losses tonight.Buffalo lost by 11 at 6-4 Siena of the MAAC.Toledo lost at home by 10 to 9-3 UIC of the Horizon League.This is an awful year for the conference, and a great year to be bringing up a talented young team. The conference is there for the taking.

Agreed.That was a bad loss for Buffalo.Bad loss for Can't State, too. This game was key if they wanted to turn their season around. Still, I will say Cleveland State is underrated this year. They upset #11 Syracuse a few days ago, and are probably the best team in their league after Butler. They're digging themselves into a hole, but lucky for them, so is everyone else in the MAC this year.

[jeaglet1]

Agreed.That was a bad loss for Buffalo.

There have been a lot of bad losses for the MAC this year, but Buffalo losing on the road to Siena (RPI 49, SOS 15) isn't one of them. Siena would be the second highest ranked team in the MAC right now.Now Central losing at home to 3-7 Detroit (RPI 232) by 12 on the other hand...

[GP1]

(should be an automatic game every year; afraid of a beat-down yourself Waters?).

Be cautious of what you wish for. Waters is the best college coach in NE Ohio and he can recruit better players at CSU because of their laughable academic standards.....and when I say laughable, I mean side splitting laughter or even liquid shooting out of your nose laughter. We may want to duck them while he is there. After all, we are "building" a program here (for how long now? will we beat the completion of the bridge to China?) through beating teams we should easily beat and losing to good teams. I'm not sure how all of that works, but I read on the board we are "building" it. Now that CSU is good, we may not want to break that formula. Keep the cupcakes coming....I guess. For those of you who have season tickets, I'll say it for you...... Let's see some results from all of this "building".....this year.

[unZIPped]

(should be an automatic game every year; afraid of a beat-down yourself Waters?).

Be cautious of what you wish for. Waters is the best college coach in NE Ohio and he can recruit better players at CSU because of their laughable academic standards.....and when I say laughable, I mean side splitting laughter or even liquid shooting out of your nose laughter. We may want to duck them while he is there. After all, we are "building" a program here (for how long now? will we beat the completion of the bridge to China?) through beating teams we should easily beat and losing to good teams. I'm not sure how all of that works, but I read on the board we are "building" it. Now that CSU is good, we may not want to break that formula. Keep the cupcakes coming....I guess. For those of you who have season tickets, I'll say it for you...... Let's see some results from all of this "building".....this year.

Oh here we go again. GP1 as a notorious JD lover and a closet KD hater comes out again. May I repeat myself again. All KD has done is win games. Cupcakes? Only one school in the Mac has a better MAC record and overall record since he has been here. If not for a timing error and a missed ft we would have been in the post season three straight years and have two wins on the road over cupcakes Temple and Florida St. If you have these feelings then you are not objective and credible. KD has done it with good people and crappy facilities yet all you do is criticize. While we havent won all these games we have played Louisville, California, Clemson, Creighton, UMass, Mississippi St, Nevada twice , Temple twice, Niagara twice, Dayton three times, Vcu twice,etc. The only school of these that has a worst situation is Niagara. It is ok for you that JD is .500 but KD has been 11-7, 13-3, 14-4, 11-5 in the MAC. And of course never won a big game----regular season finale at Can't to win the league and the only two post season wins in school history. You would have been all over Roy Williams and Bill Self too before they won the NCAA Championship. Be thankful for what you have after years of crap, and go back into your closet.

[w00t]

Yeah, I'm with GP1, bring back Hipsher!

[Captain Kangaroo]

Can someone come up with something relevant to dispute GP1's statement:

Be cautious of what you wish for. Waters is the best college coach in NE Ohio and he can recruit better players at CSU because of their laughable academic standards.

How can anyone ridicule someone's contention that Waters is the best coach in NE Ohio? He built the foundation for K.e.n.t.'s 10+ year roughshod romp through the MAC. There, he won multiple NIT games and not only took K.e.n.t. to the NCAA tourney...he won a game. His recruits made it to the Elite 8 under Heath the following season.Now he's at CSU. In year #2 of his tenure he took CSU to the the NIT!? The same CSU who hadn't sniffed the post season since Huggins was coaching the Zips and I was 20 years old! Now in year #3 he's beaten Top 15 Syracuse and mopped the floor with the MAC's basketball "flagship."JD is irrelevant to the conversation. Hipsher is irrelevant to the conversation.The argument can be made, and easily supported, that Waters is the premiere coach in NE Ohio. And that, while the Zips have had an impressive 5+ year run under KD, we have blown every opportunity for a legitimate head-turning win that captures the imagination and attention of NE Ohio hoops fans. The MAC is there for the taking in 2008-9. The Zips have as much talent as anyone. It would be fun to be making confetti in March instead of making excuses. And waiting to see our NCAA tourney seed, instead of waiting for Zeke.At some point the Zips need to break through. Why not this season?

[Captain Kangaroo]

KD has done it with good people and crappy facilities

Compare K.e.n.t.'s facilities out in Portage county to Akron's. Tell me where K.e.n.t. has ANY advantage.I love KD. Sign him up for a 10-year extension and I'll throw a party. But please don't tell me Gary Waters isn't a solid coach. The guy has proven it. That's the truth. No hyperbole.

[w00t]

CK, I don't think that's the part that anyone would take issue with. This, on the other hand is nonsense from a jaded Dambrot hater who's happy to ignore the fact that KD has improved the Akron basketball program across the board and that its future has never been brighter...

After all, we are "building" a program here (for how long now? will we beat the completion of the bridge to China?) through beating teams we should easily beat and losing to good teams. I'm not sure how all of that works, but I read on the board we are "building" it. Now that CSU is good, we may not want to break that formula. Keep the cupcakes coming....I guess. For those of you who have season tickets, I'll say it for you...... Let's see some results from all of this "building".....this year.

[Zip Watcher]

(should be an automatic game every year; afraid of a beat-down yourself Waters?).

Be cautious of what you wish for. Waters is the best college coach in NE Ohio and he can recruit better players at CSU because of their laughable academic standards.....and when I say laughable, I mean side splitting laughter or even liquid shooting out of your nose laughter. We may want to duck them while he is there. After all, we are "building" a program here (for how long now? will we beat the completion of the bridge to China?) through beating teams we should easily beat and losing to good teams. I'm not sure how all of that works, but I read on the board we are "building" it. Now that CSU is good, we may not want to break that formula. Keep the cupcakes coming....I guess. For those of you who have season tickets, I'll say it for you...... Let's see some results from all of this "building".....this year.

Congratulations. A garbage post from one of ZN.O's top contributors.KD is every bit the coach Waters is. No one in their right mind would swap rosters with CSU right now. It is WATERS who's running scared here. KD would play every year. CSU ended this. Not UA.Building for "how long" now? This is year 5 of KD's tenure. He's won nearly 100 games (WAY ahead of the pace set by Huggins over the same period). He's won 2 postseason games .. that's more than Waters @ CSU. The Zips have been in the title game the last 2 years. Averaging 22 wins / season and improving every year.If you can't see progress here .. you're not watching the Zips .. oh I forgot .. you don't watch them.You can do better than that .. you usually do.Go Zips!

[zipsbandman]

This is the problem with MAC basketball. Unless you win the tournament in Cleveland there is really nothing to get excited about, and I fully understand why we cannot draw 4k+ on a consistent basis. I can't say I'm really excited about this team. This is far from the best team I have seen at Akron and those teams could not even get it done. Yay we beat NC A&T or whatever. I can understand that it's probably difficult to recruit when you play in the MAC. I say it's more of an issue with the conference we play in than Dambrot. Dambrot's probably the best coach we can get at Akron. It's a tall order when you have a 1 in 14 chance of getting in the tournament every year. If you want to compare Dambrot with JD consider that five MAC teams in football are going to bowl games. You win 6 games you are in the postseason. I am tired of waiting for the hoops team to finally take the next step though...

[Charlotte_49]

There have been a lot of bad losses for the MAC this year, but Buffalo losing on the road to Siena (RPI 49, SOS 15) isn't one of them. Siena would be the second highest ranked team in the MAC right now.Now Central losing at home to 3-7 Detroit (RPI 232) by 12 on the other hand...

I like Siena, and they're a good team, but they're not a Top 50 team. Can you name a single "impressive" win in Siena's resume?Losing to Siena was a bad loss for Buffalo in the sense that many have them listed as the top team in the MAC. They should've beaten Siena if they wanted to hold on to that title.

[ZZZips]

Captain -I'll take the challenge....."How can anyone ridicule someone's contention that Waters is the best coach in NE Ohio?"Ridicule may be to harsh of a verb. How about disagree. Not being an engineer I may not be up to your level of statistical analysis. but doesn't shrinking the pool of data allow for someone to be rated best who is only average in a larger universe. I think Gary is doing a fine job., but putting Waters on a pedestal of greatness when you define the universe as D1 programs in NE Ohio is a pretty small group for comparison. 4 coaches is pretty slim competition. One partial year of playing very well at CSU is a short period of time. Does he only do well in NE Oho? Ask the fans in New Jersey.As for the Zips.... I do believe UA is building a program. It doesn't matter much to me if it is better ths Can't State, CSU or YSU. It is better than it was when KD arrived and it needs to continue to get better. That is "growing the program " in my opinion. Last night Geno looked like a pathetic coach and Gary looked brilliant. One night and one game is all it is.

[Zips Win!]

(should be an automatic game every year; afraid of a beat-down yourself Waters?).

Be cautious of what you wish for. Waters is the best college coach in NE Ohio and he can recruit better players at CSU because of their laughable academic standards.....and when I say laughable, I mean side splitting laughter or even liquid shooting out of your nose laughter. We may want to duck them while he is there. After all, we are "building" a program here (for how long now? will we beat the completion of the bridge to China?) through beating teams we should easily beat and losing to good teams. I'm not sure how all of that works, but I read on the board we are "building" it. Now that CSU is good, we may not want to break that formula. Keep the cupcakes coming....I guess. For those of you who have season tickets, I'll say it for you...... Let's see some results from all of this "building".....this year.

Congratulations. A garbage post from one of ZN.O's top contributors.KD is every bit the coach Waters is. No one in their right mind would swap rosters with CSU right now. It is WATERS who's running scared here. KD would play every year. CSU ended this. Not UA.Building for "how long" now? This is year 5 of KD's tenure. He's won nearly 100 games (WAY ahead of the pace set by Huggins over the same period). He's won 2 postseason games .. that's more than Waters @ CSU. The Zips have been in the title game the last 2 years. Averaging 22 wins / season and improving every year.If you can't see progress here .. you're not watching the Zips .. oh I forgot .. you don't watch them.You can do better than that .. you usually do.Go Zips!

There's nothing garbage about the post...GP1 and CK are right on the money on this one. Waters is indeed the premiere DI hoops coach in NE OH. And this is no discrespect to any of the other coaches.What he did at Can't will probably never be matched. And now you are also bringing down Huggins in this thread. Good grief....The next time I walk into the JAR and see a MAC championship banner hanging, then we can talk. Until then, there is no argument.

[Dave in Green]

There are many ways to judge whether or not one coach is "better" than another. At the collegiate level, it's not just about winning games, but also how well the coach contributes to helping build player character, resulting in the graduation of more mature and responsible citizens. This is an area where I think KD does well, but I don't know enough about Waters to even try to make a comparison.Since readily available numbers are much easier to compare, career game statistics are the generally accepted measure. Looking at their college records side-by-side, Waters has a statistical edge in post-season accomplishments and strength of schedule (due to coaching in the Big East), while KD has a significantly better winning percentage:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Dambrothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Waters

[skip-zip]

I'll add this much.....and don't get me wrong....I love KD.Watters has now twice formed successful D-1 teams out of virtually nothing. KD has done a nice job, but also inherited the Wood/Travis/Joyce/Dials nucleus that we all knew was going to win a lot of games over the next few years. Now is when we find out what KD can really do as a coach. If he takes this group of kids to 2-3 successful seasons, I'll happily say that he should be considered one of the best coaches in Ohio.As far as someone making the comment about KD being ahead of pace with Huggins in wins....remember....Huggins started with absolutely NOTHING. And NCAA sanctions. He only won his 2nd year because he made a brilliant move to get a great freshman PG from Michigan (McLaughlin) and an outstanding JC transfer (Boyce). But, from his 2nd year on, once he had things together, I think he was probably going to continue to win 20+ a year for as long as he would have stayed here.

[Hilltopper]

I'll add this much.....and don't get me wrong....I love KD. KD has done a nice job, but also inherited the Wood/Travis/Joyce/Dials nucleus that we all knew was going to win a lot of games over the next few years.

I got news for you, those guys came to Akron to play for KD, not Hipsher. All DH would have done was destroy them by the time they were seniors. :blink:

[skip-zip]

Hilltopper...sorry, you aren't telling me something I don't already know. I've been quite well connected with the basketball program here for decades. I'm just making the point that he didn't start from scratch...by any means. I agree...Hip might have found a way to screw it up if he was still the HC, and KD the assistant