Dear Band Director

[bandzip]

Let me preface this by saying I haven't done marching band here for two years. I know there are things they could do that would be more entertaining.

Anyone who's in the music education circles considers OU to be the biggest problem with music education in the state of Ohio. Every high school within 50 miles of that campus is wearing the exact same uniforms and doing all of the same style of marching. They're down their splatting and jumping on their drums every game and the crowd loves it. The problem is 95% of kids leave high school and can't even play their instrument or read music. Some of the professors at OU don't even let their performance majors do marching band because doing crap like that can really mess up your embouchure, yada yada yada, (insert other educational reasons you guys don't care about here)....

There's a reason they're the only D1 band doing that kind of thing. The rest of them are focused more on making sure everything is educationally and musically sound. Believe it or not OU is used as the model of what not to do all around the country. I'm with you guys on the idea of a D1 band being there to entertain the crowd. I thought the piano man/bands in the bowl show vs. VMI was pretty cool and really paid tribute to the School of Music's all Steinway School Program. The 9-11 show was the patriotic show for the year and had people on their feet. I don't know what else is in store but I'm sure there will be a snooze fest before the end of the season. We should probably just be giving those guys props for showing up in the middle of November and cheering for this sorry team when there are 50 people in the stands. If our band did what OU does there would still only be 30 students there and everyone else in the stands would be complaining about how they don't know the songs and the flag girl in the back is off.

[OU Dude]

Hi, I occasionally check in on Zip Nation from time to time and enjoy reading the conversations but felt compelled to correct the record regarding some of the statements in the previous post regarding the Ohio Marching 110. Quick background on me- I have a music education degree from OU but was not in the marching band so I don't come at this as a blinded 110 lover. In fact, I come from a drum corps background and prefer that style over OU's show style band.

Anyone who's in the music education circles considers OU to be the biggest problem with music education in the state of Ohio.

An absurd falsehood. Nobody is blaming show style bands for the downfall of public school music programs. If you were really in those circles you'd know the biggest problem is funding. period.

Every high school within 50 miles of that campus is wearing the exact same uniforms and doing all of the same style of marching.

Yep. It's a great recruiting tool too. A lot of university marching bands (Cant State) require music majors to participate because they can't find enough willing participants. That is not a problem at OU. Competition is fierce, most music majors don't march, a lot of non majors come to OU specifically to be in the marching band.

The problem is 95% of kids leave high school and can't even play their instrument or read music.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the style of band. I've worked with both corps and show style high school bands and I've seen good and bad from both. Logan High School near Athens is a show style band and they regularly produce musicians that kill it at state solo and ensemble competitions every year.

Some of the professors at OU don't even let their performance majors do marching band because doing crap like that can really mess up your embouchure...

Not true. But they do love to overblow in the 110, no doubt. On the other hand, the former percussion instructor at OU didn't like his students marching in drum corps because it is the antithesis of the jazz style drumming he taught.

There are legit reasons to mock the 110 but to suggest that they are a detriment to music education in the state of Ohio is a knock on my degree and on many of my friends, and its false so I felt compelled to set the ercord straight. Thanks for hearing me out.

Anyways, good luck to you guys, we'll see you in a couple weeks. I hope iCoach gets it turned around and I'm already counting down the days until bball season.

[Hilltopper]

@Hilltopper didn't you read Zipswatcher's post....they've been doing this stuff since way before Glee. Apparently this is a sign that it is here to stay.

You're right though....I do love the boring half time shows we get instead of something like this.

Maybe they could just play recorded music over the PA and get rid of all the instuments. That way they would be able to do more complex dance moves to keep you entertained.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Whenever the OU band is discussed, I'm compelled to take a short trip down memory lane...

[Dr Z]

OU band. Only band that has ever entertained me at a Zips game was Howard.

[bandzip]

All of you football hungry fans who think the band is there solely to entertain the crowd don't need to read this philosophical argument about music education.

Anyone who's in the music education circles considers OU to be the biggest problem with music education in the state of Ohio.

An absurd falsehood. Nobody is blaming show style bands for the downfall of public school music programs. If you were really in those circles you'd know the biggest problem is funding. period.

Let me clarify. The 110, not OU itself, is considered one of the biggest problems with music education in Ohio. There is no doubt funding and the subsequent cuts in staffing, bussing and general music budgets is a huge problem but there are successful bands with almost no funding. Fruit sales, car washes, bake sales and other fundraisers are all ways a band can be self sufficient in this respect and get the essentials for a music program. Of course nobody at OU is blaming show style bands for the problems musicians have coming out of those places, but it's happening at a LOT of other places. There's a reason no other D1 school is doing it. The goal of marching band is to entertain the crowd and to serve as an educational experience, but not at the expense of musicianship like with the bands that emulate the 110.

Every high school within 50 miles of that campus is wearing the exact same uniforms and doing all of the same style of marching.

Yep. It's a great recruiting tool too. A lot of university marching bands (Cant State) require music majors to participate because they can't find enough willing participants. That is not a problem at OU. Competition is fierce, most music majors don't march, a lot of non majors come to OU specifically to be in the marching band.

Akron and Can't require music education majors to march, not any music major. While it's true this helps the numbers did you ever think there is another reason they are required to do it? A lot of students coming from show bands come into the Akron program and have never known anything except that style. It's as much a learning experience in effective teaching techniques as it is about putting on a show for the music majors. There are a lot of band directors who run their marching band like they did in high school because they don't know any different. Trust me, that's usually not a good thing.

The problem is 95% of kids leave high school and can't even play their instrument or read music.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the style of band. I've worked with both corps and show style high school bands and I've seen good and bad from both. Logan High School near Athens is a show style band and they regularly produce musicians that kill it at state solo and ensemble competitions every year.

A school like Logan is the exception rather than the norm. A lot of students coming out of these schools come and audition here and they can't read music, they can't march in time, and they have no basis for good tone or technique. There are a lot of schools, especially with that style of marching band that come back for concert season and are playing pep band like charts for their spring concert. There are exceptions of course, but dancing on the field, doing horn swings and splatting isn't what makes good musicians.

Some of the professors at OU don't even let their performance majors do marching band because doing crap like that can really mess up your embouchure...

Not true. But they do love to overblow in the 110, no doubt. On the other hand, the former percussion instructor at OU didn't like his students marching in drum corps because it is the antithesis of the jazz style drumming he taught.

Obviously you would know the current affairs better then me. I was told by several people that at least two of the previous brass instructors did not allow students to be in the 110 because they believed it created issues with their playing. To discourage people to march drum corp because you teach jazz style drumming is a little silly. I could understand if you're referring to the match/traditional grip argument to an extent, but why would you discourage a student from traveling the country and playing their instrument for a few hours every single day?

There are legit reasons to mock the 110 but to suggest that they are a detriment to music education in the state of Ohio is a knock on my degree and on many of my friends, and its false so I felt compelled to set the ercord straight. Thanks for hearing me out.

I think if you look at it from an outside perspective you will see differently. I've been to OU and know some music majors from down there, and a majority of the ones I've met seem to be nice people and know what they're doing. There are also a lot of band directors that mimic that OU style and it does nothing good for the students. Like I said, there's a reason no other D1 college is doing that kind of thing; It is not educationally sound for the college students or the high schools that emulate them. If you can give me a reason how putting on a uniform, splatting and dancing is good for a high school student and their development as a musician other then "their self confidence grows because the football crowd claps for them" I'd love to hear it.

[jupitertoo]

All of you football hungry fans who think the band is there solely to entertain the crowd don't need to read this philosophical argument about music education.

Anyone who's in the music education circles considers OU to be the biggest problem with music education in the state of Ohio.

An absurd falsehood. Nobody is blaming show style bands for the downfall of public school music programs. If you were really in those circles you'd know the biggest problem is funding. period.

Let me clarify. The 110, not OU itself, is considered one of the biggest problems with music education in Ohio. There is no doubt funding and the subsequent cuts in staffing, bussing and general music budgets is a huge problem but there are successful bands with almost no funding. Fruit sales, car washes, bake sales and other fundraisers are all ways a band can be self sufficient in this respect and get the essentials for a music program. Of course nobody at OU is blaming show style bands for the problems musicians have coming out of those places, but it's happening at a LOT of other places. There's a reason no other D1 school is doing it. The goal of marching band is to entertain the crowd and to serve as an educational experience, but not at the expense of musicianship like with the bands that emulate the 110.

Every high school within 50 miles of that campus is wearing the exact same uniforms and doing all of the same style of marching.

Yep. It's a great recruiting tool too. A lot of university marching bands (Cant State) require music majors to participate because they can't find enough willing participants. That is not a problem at OU. Competition is fierce, most music majors don't march, a lot of non majors come to OU specifically to be in the marching band.

Akron and Can't require music education majors to march, not any music major. While it's true this helps the numbers did you ever think there is another reason they are required to do it? A lot of students coming from show bands come into the Akron program and have never known anything except that style. It's as much a learning experience in effective teaching techniques as it is about putting on a show for the music majors. There are a lot of band directors who run their marching band like they did in high school because they don't know any different. Trust me, that's usually not a good thing.

The problem is 95% of kids leave high school and can't even play their instrument or read music.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the style of band. I've worked with both corps and show style high school bands and I've seen good and bad from both. Logan High School near Athens is a show style band and they regularly produce musicians that kill it at state solo and ensemble competitions every year.

A school like Logan is the exception rather than the norm. A lot of students coming out of these schools come and audition here and they can't read music, they can't march in time, and they have no basis for good tone or technique. There are a lot of schools, especially with that style of marching band that come back for concert season and are playing pep band like charts for their spring concert. There are exceptions of course, but dancing on the field, doing horn swings and splatting isn't what makes good musicians.

Some of the professors at OU don't even let their performance majors do marching band because doing crap like that can really mess up your embouchure...

Not true. But they do love to overblow in the 110, no doubt. On the other hand, the former percussion instructor at OU didn't like his students marching in drum corps because it is the antithesis of the jazz style drumming he taught.

Obviously you would know the current affairs better then me. I was told by several people that at least two of the previous brass instructors did not allow students to be in the 110 because they believed it created issues with their playing. To discourage people to march drum corp because you teach jazz style drumming is a little silly. I could understand if you're referring to the match/traditional grip argument to an extent, but why would you discourage a student from traveling the country and playing their instrument for a few hours every single day?

There are legit reasons to mock the 110 but to suggest that they are a detriment to music education in the state of Ohio is a knock on my degree and on many of my friends, and its false so I felt compelled to set the ercord straight. Thanks for hearing me out.

I think if you look at it from an outside perspective you will see differently. I've been to OU and know some music majors from down there, and a majority of the ones I've met seem to be nice people and know what they're doing. There are also a lot of band directors that mimic that OU style and it does nothing good for the students. Like I said, there's a reason no other D1 college is doing that kind of thing; It is not educationally sound for the college students or the high schools that emulate them. If you can give me a reason how putting on a uniform, splatting and dancing is good for a high school student and their development as a musician other then "their self confidence grows because the football crowd claps for them" I'd love to hear it.

So why, pray tell, has the 110 been invited to perform at Carnegie Hall multiple times, the only marching band to be accorded that honor? Sounds like jealousy to me.

Oh, and the video count is over 1 million now. But with that, I suggest we end this thread 'cause it's not going anywhere.

[OU Dude]

I think I see where you and I are looking at it differently- You see poor musicianship and marching ability in students from bands that try to emulate OU and attribute their deficiencies to being a bi-product of that style. My viewpoint is that the style of the marching band has no bearing on the quality of the program, the reason you see a lot of bad show style bands is because its easier to get away with. Its a chicken/egg thing- they do show style because they're bad, they're not bad because they do show style. You see the difference?

- I like the idea of Mus Ed majors taking marching band in college, I think thats a good thing for the reasons you stated.

- We're both right- its not that some music profs don't out right ban their sutdents from being in the band (that I know of) but I don't doubt that many do discourage it. The reason corps drumming was mildy discouraged is because of the mechanics- a rigid, from the wrist stroke sucks the life out of a fluid, Moeller stroke that uses more arm movement.

- "Putting on a uniform, splatting and dancing" is not good for musical development, agreed. But thats not what a good show style band does. You can be musical and play contemporary music, the two are not mutually exclusive. The dance chart is one song of an entire show. They march in formations for the other tunes, just like a corps style band. Again, the style doesn't prevent excellence.

[Zips DM]

being musical while playing contemporary music is difficult because contemporary music is rarely musical to begin with... just sayin'

[zipseuph]

why doesn't our band do anything original

You keep using that word but I don't think you know what it means. the 110 is a hell of a band, no doubt, but to say this is original is flat out wrong. It's a song that's been played to death on the radio, has probably hundreds of high school arrangements, and the dance steps was stolen from the music video.

As was stated OU has been doing this for decades, for Ohio's Pride to come along and try to get in on this would just leave you with a far worse product that what you already have and you would all be complaining that they're just ripping OU and aren't as good at it as they are. They are not staffed for or experienced in something like this.

I've watched as the band has started incorporating pop hit's as requested, but it has unfortunately gone unnoticed. They continually make changes to please the fan but I don't think some of you are going to be happy until they're doing cartwheels and launching roman candles out their butts.

[Mmmmkay]

Apologies to any band members that post here. I'm not trying to rip you, and know you put a great deal of hard work into your band. But I'll be blunt - the pregame and halftime routines have absolutely zero energy. I'm somewhat surprised at the showing year after year from our band. I'm not sure if anyone cares or if this will be well received, but I do have some thoughts.

1) Pick your feet/knees up

You have 27,000+ roaring in anticipation...and the band comes in slide-stepping with absolutely no energy. This not only do what it needed to do - increase the energy - but actually seemed to bring it down a little.

2) Pick up the energy

Aside from adding some energy to your steps, bring it with your music as well. Play it loud, play it like you mean it! And let's see some horn hits...let the crowd know you love what you're doing...get them pumped to see their team!

3) Lose the sheet music

Many high schools don't use sheet music...why is a college doing so? Memorize the music. Using sheet music prevents you from stepping high, doing horn hits, moving as you play. And trust me - fans would sacrifice the quality of the music a hair if they got more energy in return.

I'm a band member and here's what I have to say:

1. We're doing a chair step - not a high step. The toe should come only 3 inches off the ground. No higher. It's a more technical style.

2. Have you listened to us play? Or do you go and get a damn hot dog? I mean really, the sound echos back on us its so loud.

3. We use sheet music because it has our drill marked in it. On average we learn how to do each show in one week. We also do not use music for pre-game. There is truly no comparison between us and a high school band. I came out of my high school as 1st chair on my instrument, only to wind up here thinking that I suck balls because everyone around me can play my ass off.

[yazan07]

Apologies to any band members that post here. I'm not trying to rip you, and know you put a great deal of hard work into your band. But I'll be blunt - the pregame and halftime routines have absolutely zero energy. I'm somewhat surprised at the showing year after year from our band. I'm not sure if anyone cares or if this will be well received, but I do have some thoughts.

1) Pick your feet/knees up

You have 27,000+ roaring in anticipation...and the band comes in slide-stepping with absolutely no energy. This not only do what it needed to do - increase the energy - but actually seemed to bring it down a little.

2) Pick up the energy

Aside from adding some energy to your steps, bring it with your music as well. Play it loud, play it like you mean it! And let's see some horn hits...let the crowd know you love what you're doing...get them pumped to see their team!

3) Lose the sheet music

Many high schools don't use sheet music...why is a college doing so? Memorize the music. Using sheet music prevents you from stepping high, doing horn hits, moving as you play. And trust me - fans would sacrifice the quality of the music a hair if they got more energy in return.

I'm a band member and here's what I have to say:

1. We're doing a chair step - not a high step. The toe should come only 3 inches off the ground. No higher. It's a more technical style.

2. Have you listened to us play? Or do you go and get a damn hot dog? I mean really, the sound echos back on us its so loud.

3. We use sheet music because it has our drill marked in it. On average we learn how to do each show in one week. We also do not use music for pre-game. There is truly no comparison between us and a high school band. I came out of my high school as 1st chair on my instrument, only to wind up here thinking that I suck balls because everyone around me can play my ass off.

I always defend the band since I was previously a member, but if you're going to make an account and then come on here to dig up comments from two years ago in order to initiate a fight, it is going to make neutral parties less inclined to defend the band when it comes under fire.

[Blue & Gold]

You have 27,000+ roaring in anticipation...

Wow, that seems like a lifetime ago.

[fear the brown roo]

Did anyone notice how shitty ken(t)'s band was compared to ours? I just can't understand any of the criticism of our band and why anyone would waste though on this when we have a football program that is such a piece of garbage. I bet if these same people were on the Titanic, they'd be bitching about the band that played as the ship sank.

[RootforRoo44]

Anyone who thinks that our band is "so loud the sound echoes back to them" is an idiot...im sorry. Our band is pitiful in terms of sound output.

Also, a lot of bands learn a drill (and far more challenging ones) in one week, and they don't all have music on their instruments.

AND, let's be real here...OU is doing something right. They have an amazing band tradition for a football program that is historically no better than ours. They give fans a reason to have some pride. For years i've taken my friends back to the parking lot to drink more to escape the embarrassment that comes with our halftime shows. Really, the whole "well we are better than Can't" argument isn't good enough either.

We should enact sweeping changes and create a marching band that is worthy of the beautiful stadium and soon to be far better football program we have/will have.

P.S. Just so you know, I REALLY WANT TO LIKE OUR BAND. I'm thoroughly embarrassed by it and hopefully in the future we can fix the mess that it has become. We are just near the bottom in terms of entertainment, marching, and atmosphere...and that sucks.

[RootforRoo44]

Did anyone notice how shitty ken(t)'s band was compared to ours? I just can't understand any of the criticism of our band and why anyone would waste though on this when we have a football program that is such a piece of garbage. I bet if these same people were on the Titanic, they'd be bitching about the band that played as the ship sank.

so according to your argument, the Browns shouldn't feel too bad because the Colts suck worse? Thank god Caleb Porter didn't come to UA with that attitude.

[110Zip]

All I'm going to say is that it sure does sound like many of these posters are jealous of the 110. They are not destroying music education. Marching band is not music education, go to a concert band for that.

As for the University of Akron's marching band.. there is not much to say other than eh.... They can barely be heard when they play, in an empty stadium no less. They have no technique when it comes to marching, as half of the band marches with their feet "3 inches off the ground" while the others barely pick their feet up. They are out of step and with stripes on their uniforms making it look much worse. The music selection is terrible, and the sheet music is awful. There is no excuse for using music on the field in college. I don't want to hear "we learn a new show every week and we need the drill written" because there are many bands out there that learn a new show every week and do not use music or need to have their drill in front of their face to perform.

If you want to be a band which emphasizes musical ability, then play in a concert band. If you want to be a marching band, there are two ways to be good, either you are a"show band" or a "corps style band", Akron is neither. Either you entertain the crowd by showy moves or by precision drill.

This topic arises all the time and all I ever read is people currently in the band or alumni who have such big boners for the band but cannot see the real problem... they suck. I understand that it does take hard work and dedication to make something good. Sometimes, even if you do put in hard work you still can't be good.

Stop blaming everyone else (like the 110 who actually has a HUGE following and has been invited to numerous prestigious places) and take a look in the mirror and ask what you can do to improve your own band.

[bandzip]

For years i've taken my friends back to the parking lot to drink more to escape the embarrassment that comes with our halftime shows. Really, the whole "well we are better than Can't" argument isn't good enough either.

Lemme get this straight. You leave at halftime because you're embarrassed by the band, then come back with your friends to watch the football team that has won two games in two years?

[bandzip]

Marching band is not music education, go to a concert band for that.

Guess we're going to agree to disagree.

[Doug Snyder]

For years i've taken my friends back to the parking lot to drink more to escape the embarrassment that comes with our halftime shows. Really, the whole "well we are better than Can't" argument isn't good enough either.

Lemme get this straight. You leave at halftime because you're embarrassed by the band, then come back with your friends to watch the football team that has won two games in two years?

The bigger question is "how would someone know the band is not good if they never watch the band".

Or... why would anyone care what that someone thought anyway???

[zipseuph]

And here we go.

First of all, if you are a current band member you should not be posting on this.

110zip. You seem to have missed the posts from people such as myself giving props to the 110 they are one hell of a group.

Root, if you've been avoiding halftime how do you know all this stuff about the current conditions of te band?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall seeing folders during the 2 halftime shoes I've watched this year. Have they been used during other shows that I didnt see? The band has changed up their music collection quite a bit since I was a member (not that anyone has noticed) so you guys can stop beating on that drum.

My 2 big things against the band are the same things they've been for years.

1) stop saying "and up" as well as "and down" for your horn motions.

2) find something that will make you unique. I still stand next to my suggestion of bringing back the tire drum.

[ziptrumpet87]

Anyone who thinks that our band is "so loud the sound echoes back to them" is an idiot...im sorry. Our band is pitiful in terms of sound output.

As a member of the alumni band who has experienced being on the field and being in the stands, I can tell you that the acoustics of the stadium are partly to blame.

When sitting on the east side facing the pressbox it is difficult to hear the band; the sound gets swallowed up or escapes out the end zones. The Rubber Bowl was better because everything was solid concrete and the sound bounced around much more.

From the pressbox sideline the sound is much better.

In this case, both arguments might be right.

[RootforRoo44]

For years i've taken my friends back to the parking lot to drink more to escape the embarrassment that comes with our halftime shows. Really, the whole "well we are better than Can't" argument isn't good enough either.

Lemme get this straight. You leave at halftime because you're embarrassed by the band, then come back with your friends to watch the football team that has won two games in two years?

you think that i can get friends to come to more than one or two games a year? Nah.

[Big Zip]

OU does it again and continues to get national publicity from their band.

I know this has been talked to death but these kids truly look like they have fun at every game. I enjoy the soothing sounds of Roberta Flack as much as the next guy (sarcasm) but I'd really like high energy half time shows.

Gangnam Style!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...;v=FSvVwylGtes#!

[g-mann17]

OU does it again and continues to get national publicity from their band.

I know this has been talked to death but these kids truly look like they have fun at every game. I enjoy the soothing sounds of Roberta Flack as much as the next guy (sarcasm) but I'd really like high energy half time shows.

Gangnam Style!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...;v=FSvVwylGtes#!

Shark officially jumped.