Fifth Day of Preseaon Men's Basketball Practice

[zippyfan34]

We had 1 vote in 2006-2007 and 2 in 2007-2008. This was the preseason poll.

http://www.gozips.com/sports/mbkb/2007-08/releases/1301292_1

[skip-zip]

We've never received a single vote in any "real" poll, and have two double-digit losses in our only two NCAA appearances this millennium.

Here you run into trouble.

You're here admonishing energized fans about their opinions, and you want to base the cold shower on facts to back up your reservations.

I think it's good to be cautious here. You live in NEOH and are a Vikings fan. I get it. We all have big hopes, and some of us are more eager than others to dream big for our guys.

Problem here is that your "facts" are categorically and completely inaccurate. The Zips have received AP votes, on multiple occasions under KD. It's not some magic land they've never visited. Is the AP poll a real poll?

Two NCAA births in 3 seasons are real, tangible evidence of success. They weren't accidents. I look forward to more.

I've got them on.

B)

Go Zips!!

The NCAA berths have been some of most exciting moments of my life as a Zips fan. But, the "evidence of success" is exactly what it is. Evidence that we can put together a team good enough to win 20 games and compete for a MAC title. But with the turnover this past off-season, even remotely anticipating that dozens of pollsters could launch us from relative obscurity to a Top-16 team over the period of the next 20-30 games of our basketball history is just an incredible.....incredible.....leap.

I'm not being a "downer", or trying to dampen anyone's enthusiasm. If someone said, "maybe we can bring these new guys along fast enough to win the MAC again", I'm totally on board with them. Or, "Maybe we can develop these new guys well enough to have a solid Top-100 RPI team by the end of the year". I'd be on board with that kind of goal too.

Again, I'll be happy with just beating a Top 25 team for the first time. I can't even imagine what it would take to BE a Top Ranked team anytime soon.

[Dave in Green]

I sure hope the coaches and players are setting a slightly higher goal than a solid Top-100 RPI team by the end of the season.

The Zips average final season RPI for the last 7 seasons is a solid #83 with a best of #60 and a worst of #101. So a solid Top-100 RPI team by the end of the season is pretty much the norm for KD's teams.

Regardless of what fans may think, if the team believes it could be the best Zips team ever, they should set their sights high and have a stretch goal of being at least a Top-50 RPI team by the end of the season.

[Z.I.P.]

I sure hope the coaches and players are setting a slightly higher goal than a solid Top-100 RPI team by the end of the season.

The Zips average final season RPI for the last 7 seasons is a solid #83 with a best of #60 and a worst of #101. So a solid Top-100 RPI team by the end of the season is pretty much the norm for KD's teams.

Regardless of what fans may think, if the team believes it could be the best Zips team ever, they should set their sights high and have a stretch goal of being at least a Top-50 RPI team by the end of the season.

If what I'm reading is correct, this team may not have to wait till the end of the season to make the Top-50. We may even exceed I Speak Truth's estimate of 20 wins!

[Captain Kangaroo]

We had 1 vote in 2006-2007 and 2 in 2007-2008. This was the preseason poll.

http://www.gozips.com/sports/mbkb/2007-08/releases/1301292_1

How's that old line go...something like -- "I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken."

[Dr Z]

EA from the PD writes this about the team

The rest of Akron's 2011-2012 team is preparing for a five-game trip to Canada, beginning Wednesday. Practices began Aug. 1. So far, the play of both 6-7 Nick Harney from Benedictine and 6-7 Demetrius Treadwell from Euclid has drawn raves, as this Akron team starts to look like Dambrot's more athletic teams when he was head coach at Central Michigan and Ashland. "No question we are going to be a much, much better rebounding team with those two,'' assistant Dan Peters said after a recent workout. We don't have the sure first-round draft pick. Other than that, this is the kind of roster we always had at Cincinnati.'' Peters was a longtime assistant to Bob Huggins when the now-West Virginia head coach was at Cincinnati.

[GP1]

Until that time, we're just the plucky over-achievers from a slightly-below-mediocre basketball conference.

You've been using the word plucky a lot. Have you been reading British novels?

[GP1]

I'm not being a "downer", or trying to dampen anyone's enthusiasm. If someone said, "maybe we can bring these new guys along fast enough to win the MAC again", I'm totally on board with them. Or, "Maybe we can develop these new guys well enough to have a solid Top-100 RPI team by the end of the year". I'd be on board with that kind of goal too.

From what it sounds like, the goal of this summer is to speed up the learning curve. I've never been one to believe turnover in college athletics results in worse performance. If properly executed, turnover can be the best thing to ever happen to a good program. I believe the groundwork is being laid this summer and will result in turnover being great for the program.

I don't believe the "goal" for Nov and Dec next year should be to have a solid RPI ranking, I believe the "expectation" should be to have a highly ranked team. The talent is there and the coaching is there. As fans, we need to raise our expectations of this program. We are not the little engine who could anymore. Next season could be better in many ways and I expect it to be.

[ZachTheZip]

I sure hope the coaches and players are setting a slightly higher goal than a solid Top-100 RPI team by the end of the season.

The Zips average final season RPI for the last 7 seasons is a solid #83 with a best of #60 and a worst of #101. So a solid Top-100 RPI team by the end of the season is pretty much the norm for KD's teams.

Regardless of what fans may think, if the team believes it could be the best Zips team ever, they should set their sights high and have a stretch goal of being at least a Top-50 RPI team by the end of the season.

Exactly. Top-100 is a pretty low goal. "Let's shoot to be barely as good as our worst season in the past seven years" is a terrible mindset.

Skip, you're really selling the team short if you think that while we get a top-100 and 20 wins every single year under KD, now we would be lucky to reach those milestones. Have you been watching Buffalo and mistaking them for the Zips?

[Quickzips]

I'm not being a "downer", or trying to dampen anyone's enthusiasm. If someone said, "maybe we can bring these new guys along fast enough to win the MAC again", I'm totally on board with them. Or, "Maybe we can develop these new guys well enough to have a solid Top-100 RPI team by the end of the year". I'd be on board with that kind of goal too.

From what it sounds like, the goal of this summer is to speed up the learning curve. I've never been one to believe turnover in college athletics results in worse performance. If properly executed, turnover can be the best thing to ever happen to a good program. I believe the groundwork is being laid this summer and will result in turnover being great for the program.

I don't believe the "goal" for Nov and Dec next year should be to have a solid RPI ranking, I believe the "expectation" should be to have a highly ranked team. The talent is there and the coaching is there. As fans, we need to raise our expectations of this program. We are not the little engine who could anymore. Next season could be better in many ways and I expect it to be.

Let it be known, the Great GP1 is advocating for more Zips turnovers. If this becomes a problem in December or January I will be holding GP1 personally responsible.

On a more serious note, I think that often times in life things are neither as good nor as bad as they may seem. This may well be one of those scenarios. I am cautiously optimistic that this team can achieve great things this year, but we are only about a week into summer practices. Let's not start crowning anyone just yet.

[GP1]

I am cautiously optimistic that this team can achieve great things this year,

Throw caution to the wind. We should be boldly optimistic.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I am cautiously optimistic that this team can achieve great things this year,

Throw caution to the wind. We should be boldly optimistic.

I am going "Kobayashi" on the Zips Basketball Kool Aid. I can't keep up with the Joey Chestnuts of the Zips Kool Aid circuit, but I am drinking more than most.

[GoZips]

Do they serve beverages at these practices or do you guys bring your own?

Last chance to see the kids practice is tomorrow (Wednesday) at 8:15 AM start time.

And, you have to bring your own beverage.

Was suggested to Tom Gaffney of the ABJ and Akron's SID to post the game stats in their articles.

Neither was planning to do that until they were asked.

The game stats will give us fans an opportunity to see starting line ups, who comes off the bench first,

and the player's overall performance.

[Zipmeister]

How" good" this team is depends on one's perspective. After the snail was run over by the turtle and rushed to the hospital, the Doc in the emergency room asked the snail "what happened?" "I don't know" replied the snail, "it all happened so fast."

Personally, I don't see anything far fetched about the Zips moving up 80 spots in the RPI. From all reports it appears we have an improved team, and I am certain none of the teams who were better than us last year have improved. In fact, I'm sure most of them will be much worse than they were last season. Final 4, here we come.

[akzipper]

We're going to be a 2-3 place MAC east team this year, I'm sorry.

Like I said everyone is being way too optimistic. You've watch them practice and scrimmage. Against who? THEMSELVES! That's means nothing sorry to say. I heard on WKNR that the Browns had a great training camp today. Should I get my superbowl tickets now???

Wouldn't you think that if a team was this "good" they might be getting some media attention? I don't hear anything about them. Aside from one camera guy at a Zips practice and a handful of fans. Wouldn't we be in some sort of preseason poll? and no the midmajor poll does not count. YOu can't use the excuse "people don't know about them", because if they were really that good they would know. I'm sorry to be negative, but it's the truth. You guys will enter the season expecting them to dominate, they'll lose to some lowly midmajor and everyone will be blaming KD. We MIGHT have a chance to beat one big school and that's all.

You can't compare this to soccer for a lot of reasons. Our soccer program has been strong since the 80s if not earlier. They have had years of success and we knew they would be good based on the previous year. Basketball is different because we we're pretty bad last year. We almost lost to freaking YSU, and lost to every single big school we played. We needed 2OVERTIMES to get to the 3rd freakin' round of the MAC tournament. That's right the MAC! One of the worst conferences in the country.

Say what you want about my opinions, but I'd rather be realistic as opposed to many people that are just going to end up disappointed because they are so overly optimistic.

[Dave in Green]

And akzipper zooms ahead of skip-zip in the DPI (derating percentage index).

[ZachTheZip]

Say what you want about my opinions, but I'd rather be realistic as opposed to many people that are just going to end up disappointed because they are so overly optimistic.

If you'd rather be realistic, why don't you start by forming some realistic opinions about the basketball team.

[akzipper]

Say what you want about my opinions, but I'd rather be realistic as opposed to many people that are just going to end up disappointed because they are so overly optimistic.

If you'd rather be realistic, why don't you start by forming some realistic opinions about the basketball team.

I said we'd finish 2-3rd in the MAC east, probably behind Can't and OU. After I see the schedule I will be able to predictions of the season record. Just remember last year I predicted our ooc record and got it EXACTLY right.

It's just common sense that you can't be saying "sweet 16" before you have even seen this team play against a legitimate opponent. I'm just as big of Zips fan as anyone else, but it's just not realistic I'm sorry.

[Dave in Green]

..... Like I said everyone is being way too optimistic. You've watch them practice and scrimmage. Against who? THEMSELVES! That's means nothing sorry to say. .....

Everyone? Isn't that a bit overstated? There's been a pretty wide diversity of opinion here, ranging from Sweet 16 to lucky to break the Top 100, and everything in between.

And, not sorry to say, a lot can be learned by watching practice and scrimmage if you know what to look for. For example, a fair number of the players practicing and scrimmaging against each other are known quantities. We've seen them play lots of games against other teams. We know how well they run, jump, handle the ball, rebound, play D, etc., etc. Now we're watching newcomers match up against them. When we see that some of the newcomers in their very first practices and scrimmages demonstrate talents and abilities as good as or better than the known quantities, it does mean something.

So please feel free to push the envelope of pessimism. But please don't misrepresent the opinions of those who've seen with their own eyes what only exists in your imagination.

[Z.I.P.]

..... Like I said everyone is being way too optimistic. You've watch them practice and scrimmage. Against who? THEMSELVES! That's means nothing sorry to say. .....

Everyone? Isn't that a bit overstated? There's been a pretty wide diversity of opinion here, ranging from Sweet 16 to lucky to break the Top 100, and everything in between.

And, not sorry to say, a lot can be learned by watching practice and scrimmage if you know what to look for. For example, a fair number of the players practicing and scrimmaging against each other are known quantities. We've seen them play lots of games against other teams. We know how well they run, jump, handle the ball, rebound, play D, etc., etc. Now we're watching newcomers match up against them. When we see that some of the newcomers in their very first practices and scrimmages demonstrate talents and abilities as good as or better than the know quantities, it does mean something.

So please feel free to push the envelope of pessimism. But please don't misrepresent the opinions of those who've seen with their own eyes what only exists in your imagination.

Damn Dave, I think you're turning ME into a wild-eyed optimist! This could be the year Green wins the state?

[Hilltopper]

Damn Dave, I think you're turning ME into a wild-eyed optimist! This could be the year Green wins the state?

ZIP, you're asking the wrong guy. We might make it to the final 8! We made the final 16 last year and didn't lose much to graduation.

Lots of senior talent and a deep bench.

[johnnyzip84]

This has definitely morphed into a pretty amusing thread. I'm squarely in the "Zips will be much improved" camp. But I also believe the MAC East will be improved as well. So I think this will throw a monkey wrench into those plans for a Top 25 ranking. But the RPI should still hold up fairly well, thus opening up the SLIGHT possibility of an at-large bid should the need occur.

[mes102]

Just add this thought here.

1. This team is better(if stayed healthy) than last year to the "eye test".

2. only 3 seniors on team this year: Cvetinovic, McClannahan, and Petersen

3. So far it seems we'll have a good 3 player class next year.

4. So theoretically, we'll be better in next season than we will this season...

[ZachTheZip]

ABJ Article on Dambrot's expectations for the Canada trip.

Zeke, McClanahan, Abreu, and Q will be the nucleus of the starters, although lineups might change to be able to evaluate certain players.

[ZachTheZip]

If you look at Pomeroy's stat page for the Zips, You'll immediately see that our two biggest weaknesses were offensive rebounding and Free Throw Rate (the amount of FTs attempted compared to regular FG attempts), both of which indicate that we were weak taking it to the basket. Our biggest strengths were turnover percentage and three-point defense.

How does all that play into who we return, who we lost, and the strengths/weaknesses of the newcomers?