Detroit Game Thread

[RootforRoo44]

Anybody else notice how well we played when Forsythe was in? He looked very good in his limited time in the game. I like his activity without the ball and i LOVE his defense. The dude is going to be good.

[LZIp]

I'm a fan of Forsythe. Maybe he should be getting minutes. However, can we justify him getting minutes over Zeke and/or Tree? I'm not so sure. We are stacked at the 4 and 5, and that is a good thing. What good what Forsythe be in the game if we DONT HAVE WINGS WHO GET THE BIG MEN THE BALL. Knock on Zeke all you want, but I see him working his ass of damn near every offensive position to post up, yet he rarely gets the ball.

The problem is nowhere near Forysthe not getting enough minutes. Sloppy FT shooting, turnovers, perimeter defense, and coaching is our problem!

Can we REALLY say KD is that good of a coach? Or do we have so many consecutive 20 win seasons because we play in a joke of a basketball conference? Looking at our OOC yearly, we look like a very average mid-major program.

[zippy5]

I don't know about this whole "get the bigs the ball" deficiency. Tree had no problem getting the ball down low today.

[LZIp]

I don't know about this whole "get the bigs the ball" deficiency. Tree had no problem getting the ball down low today.

Seemed to me Tree scored a bunch of his points on the break when we were running in the beginning and on put-backs after the initial shot. He may have scored on the post up 1-2 times.

[B4110]

What a joke of a performance today. I starting to lose confidence in a certain coach ever taking us to the "next level"

Im in total agreement with u. I almost wanna say he coached us "out" the game. Terrible rotation timing. He will NEVER beat quality opponents with such an average attack and gameplan. I can tell u who and when he's gonna sub next game and it hasn't even started. Same thing , week after week no matter who we play. No adjustments.

[B4110]

I'm a fan of Forsythe. Maybe he should be getting minutes. However, can we justify him getting minutes over Zeke and/or Tree? I'm not so sure. We are stacked at the 4 and 5, and that is a good thing. What good what Forsythe be in the game if we DONT HAVE WINGS WHO GET THE BIG MEN THE BALL. Knock on Zeke all you want, but I see him working his ass of damn near every offensive position to post up, yet he rarely gets the ball.

The problem is nowhere near Forysthe not getting enough minutes. Sloppy FT shooting, turnovers, perimeter defense, and coaching is our problem!

Can we REALLY say KD is that good of a coach? Or do we have so many consecutive 20 win seasons because we play in a joke of a basketball conference? Looking at our OOC yearly, we look like a very average mid-major program.

The truest words ive heard spoken about this coach. Has a school full of fans fooled.

[LZIp]

The truest words ive heard spoken about this coach. Has a school full of fans fooled.

To expand on my thought some more...

What is our biggest OOC win under him? Have we ever beaten a ranked team? How have we done in post-season tournaments?

Is our University only infatuated with him because he is associated with Lebron? Notice when Lebron was receiving his Sportsman of the Year award, he had his "mentors" there in Coach K and Jay-z...no KD. Is there are a reason only other mid-majors have tried to take him from us?

[RootforRoo44]

Watch out. KD-Bashing (deserved or not) will bring the ire of ZN.o on you...

[RootforRoo44]

I think one of the things i find most sad about the state of this team, is that there are literally dozens of fans who are saying "oh no, let's not panic yet".

Are you people really content with 20 wins per season but no NCAA Tournament most times, and a quick exit on the rare occasion that we do get in? It was nice to take that next step a few years ago...but 5 years later, we may actually be a step in the other direction.

[akronzips71]

Im in total agreement with u. I almost wanna say he coached us "out" the game. Terrible rotation timing. He will NEVER beat quality opponents with such an average attack and gameplan. I can tell u who and when he's gonna sub next game and it hasn't even started. Same thing , week after week no matter who we play. No adjustments.

I actually must agree with you this time. I am a big fan of KD, but he really blew this one.

In the first half, he had Zeke on the bench a lot. He should have played 40 minutes, with Tree and PF next to him.

Speaking of which, Tree had the hot hand. Both scoring and on defense. There was no excuse for sitting him down.

The heck with the rotation, play the guys who are hot (CG was on today, Walsh was NOT).

And Betancourt is really not ready to play much at this level. All AA all the time.

[akronzips71]

And before I forget...

AA seems to be playing that last shot stall all the time. What is up with that? Is that the coach or him?

And his ball handling has become downright sloppy lately.

These guys just are not playing up to their potential at all.

In Zeke, Tree and (developing) PF we have three big men who could start anyplace. Why can't we win?

[phil]

I agree with you. We see more AA dribling and less movement of the ball. We have 2 good post players who are watching AA dribble the ball. Where is the ball movement or backcuts. This team needs to find a better way to attack the basket. Also, AA needs to find his outside shot. I don't think he made a jump shot the entire game.

[Dave in Green]

Is anyone else missing Q as much as I am?

[Gcc]

Is anyone else missing Q as much as I am?

+1

[phil]

He's hitting over 50% from three.

His last 2 games, 2 of 10 shooting for 8 points, 2 rebounds, and 2 assists in 54 minutes. Last year Walsh was a great rebounder who was not afraid to pound the boards. He was also driving to the basket. He needs to produce more with his minutes. I just don't see him getting the ball a great deal the last 2 games. Hopefully this team can get him more involved as last year I thought at times he was our best player.

[GP1]

Is anyone else missing Q as much as I am?

He is the difference between winning and losing today.

[GP1]

Can we REALLY say KD is that good of a coach?

Define "that good".

[LZIp]

Define "that good".

Define how good you think he is. The more I obtain, the more I think he isnt the guy to take us to the next level.

[wadszip]

His last 2 games, 2 of 10 shooting for 8 points, 2 rebounds, and 2 assists in 54 minutes. Last year Walsh was a great rebounder who was not afraid to pound the boards. He was also driving to the basket. He needs to produce more with his minutes. I just don't see him getting the ball a great deal the last 2 games. Hopefully this team can get him more involved as last year I thought at times he was our best player.

And those last two games were against potential tournament-caliber road teams (Creighton for sure, Detroit is better than its record shows, especially at home). I was going to post earlier that Walsh has to shoulder as much of the blame for this loss as anybody. He flat-out stunk today. This is coming from somebody who was the biggest Walsh supporter last year. I remember debating Chauncey's family member who posts here (sorry, blanking on the name) about that.

But I call it how I see it. Chauncey, by an even wider margin than vice versa from a year ago, is outplaying Walsh this year (even if the numbers don't show it). Chauncey seems to be playing with a chip on his shoulder, and with confidence. Walsh always had the trump card (despite even if they were even in shooting) in the fact that he was aggressive on the boards. Just not seeing that this year outside of the first couple of games. And unfortunately, unlike last year, when we knew Quincy (starter or not) was going to eat up a ton of minutes at either the 2 or 3, this team just doesn't have as many options. Kretzer looks to be a nice developmental player, especially offensively, but is a defensive liability. That means, without Diggs, both Walsh and Gilliam really needed to step their games up. Right now, only Gilliam seems to be doing that.

With all that said, I'm still not too overly concerned when it comes to Cleveland. Of course, these losses have taken out any possibility of an at-large chance, but that should've been a given after the Oklahoma State loss. Just win the MAC and see what happens from there (still think this team can play with anybody on a nuetral court).

They just need to find the right rotations (that's on KD for sure).

How I would do it:

1. Alex: Outside of foul trouble, needs 35 minutes a game. Yes, he has had some TO problems, but the drop-off between him and Betancourt is pretty pronounced. That's not a knock on Carmelo (he's a freshman ... and Alex is a top 30 or so PG in the country).

2. Walsh: He needs to pick his game up, but right now, still the best option the team has. Currently, if Diggs was available, Walsh is better suited sharing instant offense duties off the bench with Kretzer. (moving Chauncey to the starting 2 and Diggs at the 3).

3. Chauncey: See above. I really like what he's been doing this year. In a perfect world, he's played himself into the 2 role (where he will have to play beyond Akron), but he has to stay in this spot for now. The Zips just don't have any other option at SF without Diggs.

4. Tree: Easily, somebody who needs to start and play the majority minutes at the 4. He has the size, has above average ball-handling ability (compared to other college 4s) and is a dog on the glass. Plus, his game his far more than just put-backs (and I'd argue that even if his game was nothing but put-backs he still deserves the minutes). He is showing why he would've been a high-major recruit if it wasn't for his setbacks in HS. He needs to play 30 minutes per game.

5. Forsythe: This one pains me in a way, because I see all the potential in Zeke's game. But it's apparent that Forsythe, as a freshmen, is more skilled offensively than Zeke is as senior. OK, there is defense, where Zeke is a force. Thing is, Pat has shown to be almost a big of a force on that side. It won't happen because Zeke is the "name" player, but in a merit-based rotation, Forsythe is the better player (Zeke still has more potential, but if he hasn't shown it by now, will he ever?). Also, while Pat may not be as long as Zeke, he is more fluid moving (both offensively and defensively) and has a much better offensive game. Pat, simply, needs to play more. Even if that means cutting into Zeke's minutes (and no way do you cut Tree).

That leaves the rest of the rotation as:

1. Zeke: Will still get his minutes because no way Forsythe can go 30 or so. Plus Zeke is one of the top 10 defensive centers in college hoops. And he's still good enough to offensively to be on the court, especially in the MAC. But the offense just cannot run around him. It just doesn't suit who he is as a player. A 20-20 split (depending on game circumstance) between him and Pat is probably the best for this team.

2. Harney: He hasn't improved much from last year, though still young experience-wise and he can he can slash to the bucket ... but damn, work on that ugly-ass set shot. But since he has the length (and slashing ability) to play either the 3 or 4, he needs his minutes (especially without Diggs).

3. Kretzer: The fact that he has already proven to be an instant-offensive guy from 3, shows he needs to continue to get minutes. By far, he is the best of the "true" freshmen on the roster. The more I watch him, the more I see him being a Jason Kapono-light. ... a tall, laterally-challenged defender, but somebody who needs to play, and have offensive sets drawn up for him to spot up and shoot. Simply, shooters who are 6-7 are not only a plus in the college game, but can carve out a niche in the NBA. It's early, but I like the way Kretzer is trending, and even if it's not starter minutes, he needs to be in the mix.

4. Carmelo: He has a bright future, but shouldn't be playing more than 5 or so minutes a game (yes, this team needs Alex out there that much). Still, the fact that Alex will need a break here and there, at least puts him in what I believe should be the 9-man rotation. If they had any other person capable of handling the point, I'd argue that Betancourt would benefit from a redshirt year. Love his quickness, but way too many holes in his game at the big-time college level right now.

Let's see how this thing plays out in Cleveland. Mixed in with Ohio's struggles without Groce, the MAC is even more for the taking as it was preseason (when OU and Akron were considered equals). If this team gets hot, they can play with anybody. Don't jump off the ledge yet. This team still has the talent we all thought they had coming into the year.

[Blue & Gold]

Can anyone explain the thought process on the substitutions? Frequency? Purpose? It seems as if players are not allowed to get into any rhythm without being substituted after about 4 minutes of playing time. Make a couple baskets and sit down. Is this how it is always done?

Strangely, yes. We've been wondering the same for a number of years.

[GP1]

Define how good you think he is. The more I obtain, the more I think he isnt the guy to take us to the next level.

It's no secret on this board. I've thought that for a long time now for a host of reasons which I'm not going to get into now. If Tom Wistercill thinks something is a good idea, the opposite is true. TW thought it was a good idea to extend his contract for a lot of years. Enough said.

[GP1]

Define how good you think he is. The more I obtain, the more I think he isnt the guy to take us to the next level.

It's no secret on this board. I've thought that for a long time now for a host of reasons which I'm not going to get into now. If Tom Wistercill thinks something is a good idea, the opposite is true. TW thought it was a good idea to extend his contract for a lot of years. Enough said.

[zipdiehard]

I think that what was a very promising year for the MAC is done. Zips have been less than impressive and OU just lost to a second cupcake, this one at home. No way either has a sniff at an at large bid. Another one bid year...

[Dr Z]

I blame GP1. GP1, can you predict that KD won't win another game this year, so we can start winning?

[Captain Kangaroo]

He (Q) is the difference between winning and losing today.

Why would you say that? We had Q for two full seasons prior to this one, and we still lost every similar-caliber game. Why would this year be different?