CSU Game

[Captain Kangaroo]

Thoughts on the CSU game are as follows:

1.) CSU played lazy. I went into the game expecting a backyard brawl, and I just saw a bunch of lazy schleps in CSU uniforms. Very disappointed.

2.) Is Gary Waters turning into Rollie Massimino Jr., collecting a nice paycheck and slacking off on recruiting? I was as big a fan of Gary Waters as his own mom, up until last year. That lame season gave me some concern. Maybe they pick it up as this season progresses, but the eyeball test tells me they will be mediocre again in the Horizon.

3.) What a fantastic place to watch a basketball game. The seats were like a Lay-Z-Boy recliner. All seats angled to give you a great view of the court. Beer sales. I wish we'd get rid of the JAR and play our home games @ The Wolstein Center. Share it like the Jets/Giants.

4.) Ibitayo had a serviceable game. If his 3-point push shot can find the twine at a 35-or-so percent clip, he can actually help our team. If it is 18-percent, or whatever it was last season, he can't. Yeah he's long, yeah he plays good D, but so does Diggs, and Diggs can reliably score.

5.) Harney actually hit a 3? Harney and Ibitayo's shooting form seems better suited 1954 than today, but if they go in I guess that's all that counts.

6.) Tree looked rusty. The effort was there as always, but he forced a lot of stuff.

7.) Dambrot moves substantially ahead of Waters in the battle for NE Ohio D1 coaching supremacy. You could have made a case for Waters having the title last season, based upon his overall breadth of work, but not now.

8.) If CSU had pressed us the entire game, would we have scored 30 points? If I am an opposing coach, and I have any sort of depth, I press the Zips the entire game.

9.) Welcome to Akron, Nyles Evans. Nice to see him stroking the wide open 3's. Ball handling still is a big concern, but he took a big step forward in fitting-in with the Zips on Saturday. Hope he can now exhale a bit and start playing basketball. Old-timers - does he remind anyone else of Aaron Beidleman?

10.) I wish Betancourt were better.

11.) Could CSU rotate any slower in their zone? What game tape were they watching to give us so many wide-open 3's?

12.) I'll guess there were 800 - 1,000 Zips fans in attendance? Pretty good showing for the Zips faithful.

Bethune-Cookman should be a nice warm up for decent competition against Oral Roberts (won @ Tulsa) and Detroit (wins vs. James Madison, S Fla and Rhode Island).

[LZIp]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but once again, I think you are giving CSU too little credit. I think it was a nice win for the Zips, especially after that long break. It did look like Tree was forcing some shots, but they will come. He hit a lot of those last year. I like what Deji provided, and truthfully do not have a problem with Q coming off of the bench. 6th men are starter quality and if he is still playing starter minutes, I have no problem with it. It was also a great to see Nyles come along some and give us some offensive production. Melo cannot play more than 10 minutes a game.

[Dave in Green]

I've been waiting for this review. Nice to see you at the game, Captain, and glad to see that your concerns about the starting lineup were answered. The one thing that I don't think has been mentioned by anyone yet, and which I thought might be in your report, was that the Zips looked better on defense. Maybe some of that was the CSU players not being completely into their game, and maybe some of that was the Zips defense keeping the CSU players out of their game. In any case, I thought the Zips did a better job of staying in front of their men, switching off appropriately, etc. We'll see if that holds up in the upcoming home games.

[zippy5]

I still see a lot of gambles on defense leading to easy buckets. Hopefully we adjust to the post-Zeke era quicker.. We were very spoiled in that there were no easy layups once you got burned on the perimeter. Still, I was very encouraged by that game. CSU looked terrible, but we had a lot to do with that too, in my opinion. I'm a little more excited for the season than I was a week ago. Then again, I forgot we were even in the season a week ago as well.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Regarding my knock on CSU's intensity...I've seen a lot of these games over the years, and they have often been absolute wars.

CSU didn't bring that "get-in-their-grill" intensity that I'd seen in the past.

Dambrot brought his team in ready for a war. I think CSU took what is a rivalry game a little lightly.

All the credit goes to KD and the Zips. And Waters and CSU deserve some criticism.

[Dr Z]

Could CSU rotate any slower in their zone? What game tape were they watching to give us so many wide-open 3's?

Thanks for the review, I listened on the radio, so I had no idea what happened other than the Zips beating CSU handily. My biggest question was the Zips three ball, how were they getting open, were they creating, or was CSU playing lazy D.

[zippy5]

Thanks for the review, I listened on the radio, so I had no idea what happened other than the Zips beating CSU handily. My biggest question was the Zips three ball, how were they getting open, were they creating, or was CSU playing lazy D.

Combination. Zips were much more organized on offense than in the 1st three games. Very good ball movement, players moving without the ball. Good rotation, and of course hitting the open shots when they were there. CSU was also pretty bad on defense.

[Dr Z]

Combination. Zips were much more organized on offense than in the 1st three games. Very good ball movement, players moving without the ball. Good rotation, and of course hitting the open shots when they were there. CSU was also pretty bad on defense.

Thanks for the confirmation. Steve did mention more than a few times about the good ball movement.

[Hilltopper]

Thanks for the confirmation. Steve did mention more than a few times about the good ball movement.

What you saw was 3 weeks of working on some new offensive sets. I thought the movement without the ball was much better.

Horns Offense

[skip-zip]

My Thoughts:

1) I'm starting to get the feeling that things are going to be a lot harder for Treadwell this year, without Zeke on the floor. It's easier for teams to block him from getting to the basket without another real scoring threat down low. And I sure hope he doesn't turn into a jump shooter because of it. If that happens, our scoring will suffer. I'd rather see him learn to pass back out to the shooters, or get more confidence that Big Dog or Pat can finish plays for us with an extra pass down low. I think that's the only way that the floor is going to open up for him to do his thing.

2) If Nyles becomes a shooter, that's an unexpected part of our arsenal. He's going to get open looks when teams have to spread the floor to defend our shooters.

3) I wasn't all that impressed by the win, considering that we beat them by 30 last year. I think we had many, many opportunities to put them away, and never played consistently enough for a long enough stretch to do it. I believe that we are 20+ points better than CSU.

4) Have we ever had this many guys at one time that can score a lot of points? Seems like half of the team has the ability to be the highest scorer on any given night.

[Dave in Green]

One of the interesting points about the game was the Zips' shot selection. The Zips were shooting blanks from outside for the first 15 or so minutes, but had a lot of success when they pounded it inside. The first 5 field goals scored and 7 of the first 8 were layups. That opened things up on the perimeter, and the Zips then hit 4 of 5 mostly open 3-pointers in the final 5 minutes of the first half. They followed that up by hitting 5 of their first 6 3-point attempts in the first 10 minutes of the second half to take over the game. I would expect the Zips to follow up on that success by trying more in upcoming games to establish the inside game in order to create more open looks from beyond the arc.

[zippy5]

My Thoughts:

1) I'm starting to get the feeling that things are going to be a lot harder for Treadwell this year, without Zeke on the floor. It's easier for teams to block him from getting to the basket without another real scoring threat down low. And I sure hope he doesn't turn into a jump shooter because of it. If that happens, our scoring will suffer. I'd rather see him learn to pass back out to the shooters, or get more confidence that Big Dog or Pat can finish plays for us with an extra pass down low. I think that's the only way that the floor is going to open up for him to do his thing.

I noticed this. I also noticed Big Dog pretty much has his way down low. Made a beautiful pass to Harney who missed an open layup. If Big Dog does whatever he needs to do to get some more minutes, Tree is going to get some very easy looks.

[Dave in Green]

1) I'm starting to get the feeling that things are going to be a lot harder for Treadwell this year, without Zeke on the floor. It's easier for teams to block him from getting to the basket without another real scoring threat down low. And I sure hope he doesn't turn into a jump shooter because of it. If that happens, our scoring will suffer. I'd rather see him learn to pass back out to the shooters, or get more confidence that Big Dog or Pat can finish plays for us with an extra pass down low. ...

Absolutely, and there's no reason not to have confidence in Big Dog and Pat. Combined, those two have hit 22-35 of their field goal attempts for a 63% shooting average -- close to what Zeke averaged last season. But Tree also needs to be able to knock down short jumpers in the paint when he's open, as he did late in the second half when CSU was making a run.

[Zipmeister]

My Thoughts:

1) I'm starting to get the feeling that things are going to be a lot harder for Treadwell this year, without Zeke on the floor. It's easier for teams to block him from getting to the basket without another real scoring threat down low. And I sure hope he doesn't turn into a jump shooter because of it. If that happens, our scoring will suffer. I'd rather see him learn to pass back out to the shooters, or get more confidence that Big Dog or Pat can finish plays for us with an extra pass down low. I think that's the only way that the floor is going to open up for him to do his thing.

2) If Nyles becomes a shooter, that's an unexpected part of our arsenal. He's going to get open looks when teams have to spread the floor to defend our shooters.

3) I wasn't all that impressed by the win, considering that we beat them by 30 last year. I think we had many, many opportunities to put them away, and never played consistently enough for a long enough stretch to do it. I believe that we are 20+ points better than CSU.

4) Have we ever had this many guys at one time that can score a lot of points? Seems like half of the team has the ability to be the highest scorer on any given night.

Answer to question 4.....

Yes, last year.

[Hilltopper]

I noticed this. I also noticed Big Dog pretty much has his way down low. Made a beautiful pass to Harney who missed an open layup. If Big Dog does whatever he needs to do to get some more minutes, Tree is going to get some very easy looks.

I loved that pass. He bounced it right between the legs of the defender. Too bad Harney blew the wide open layup.

[skip-zip]

Absolutely, and there's no reason not to have confidence in Big Dog and Pat. Combined, those two have hit 22-35 of their field goal attempts for a 63% shooting average -- close to what Zeke averaged last season. But Tree also needs to be able to knock down short jumpers in the paint when he's open, as he did late in the second half when CSU was making a run.

Post players should have a high shooting percentage.

I don't disagree about having Tree take open jumpers in the paint. I just see a problem with the step-back jumpers when he has his back to the basket, because he can't get to the hole.

[phil]

First time went to CSU for a game. Paid $40 for 2 tickets and got there just as they started the game. Gave the usher my tickets. He told me that there was no row P and that the tickets were not good. I told him that there was an empty row P in the next section and I would just sit there. He told me "no way" and I had to return the tickets and get good tickets. I went back to the ticket window and the line was 10 deep. I did not want to wait in line a second time and found a guy wearing a suit with a name tag. He said the tickets were good and took me back to the usher and told the usher to let us sit in the empty row. By the time we came back, Carmelo was off the court and we were losing 5-2. He came back with 2 "good tickets" but we decided to stay in our seats. I agree, the seats were far more confortable than the seats at the jar.

I agree that CSU did not look very good. I would like to think it was our defense but not sure. Keith needs to work with our guys against the press. Pat looked completely lost trying to inbound the ball and then threw it against the basket for a turnover. A few minutes later we had another turnover against the press. Keith needs to find 5 guys that can handle pressure or this will be a long season blowing leads. I do not like to have McAdams and Kretzer on the floor at the same time. Having 2 guys just standing on the wings is a recipe for disaster. Would like to see them learn to drive to the basket and not just shoot threes.

[Z.I.P.]

I loved that pass. He bounced it right between the legs of the defender. Too bad Harney blew the wide open layup.

You failed to mention the audio portion, where DOG asked the defender, "Would you like some nutmeg on your pumpkin pie?"

[Dave in Green]

Post players should have a high shooting percentage. ...

Of course. But the combined 63% of Pat and Big Dog is way above average even for post players. Of the 5,000 or so D1 players in the country last season, only 41 shot 63% or better (Zeke shot 66%). So when the Zips' starting and backup centers are shooting 63% combined, there's absolutely no reason for Tree not to have confidence that they can finish plays for us with an extra pass down low. If Tree doesn't understand this, he needs to be reminded by the coaching staff. The Zips have two quality centers with an average height of 6-10 1/2 and an average weight of more than 260 pounds. Most teams the Zips will face this season cannot match that size and talent level at center. As a team, the Zips need to take advantage of that. The more Pat and Big Dog score inside, the more things will open up for Tree.

[Dave in Green]

@1981grad, sorry you had such a bad experience on the seating. Hope that didn't adversely influence your evaluation of the Zips' play, as you've only cited a few bad plays. Did you see anything you liked about the Zips' play, considering that to win on the road you generally have to do a lot more things right than wrong?

[phil]

@1981grad, sorry you had such a bad experience on the seating. Hope that didn't adversely influence your evaluation of the Zips' play, as you've only cited a few bad plays. Did you see anything you liked about the Zips' play, considering that to win on the road you generally have to do a lot more things right than wrong?

Yes,

I liked Q's defense. He played with a lot of intensity and kept his man in front of him. He also did a great job of distributing the ball. There were several occasions when there were 4 passes to find the open man. That was fun to watch.

I also like us finally hitting the 3 ball. Even finally showed that he could shoot. It was great seeing Harney taking one open 3 and hitting it. It was great the MCadams was the player of the game hitting 4 of 5 from the 3 line.

I also saw Evens beat his man and get a layup. Almost reminded me of AA

I also like how bid dog looks very good with ball on the post. He did not get shook up when they double teams him. Has a great touch around the basket.

Most importantly, I liked that we won.

[Dave in Green]

@1981grad, glad to see you thought the good things outnumbered the bad.

GT just posted some good post-CSU info in his Zips Sports Notebook. One item of interest is that Coach Dambrot will use games over the rest of the month to decide who he wants to have on the floor at the end of games:

“We don’t really know who’s going to play at the end,” he said. “I know Jake Kretzer’s going to play at the end and I know [Quincy] is going to play, but who else, we have to decide.”

A funny item in the story is that Can't is now going to copy the Zips' early scheduling gap:

The Golden Flashes are in the midst of a three-week period where they don’t play.

[skip-zip]

Of course. But the combined 63% of Pat and Big Dog is way above average even for post players. Of the 5,000 or so D1 players in the country last season, only 41 shot 63% or better (Zeke shot 66%). So when the Zips' starting and backup centers are shooting 63% combined, there's absolutely no reason for Tree not to have confidence that they can finish plays for us with an extra pass down low. If Tree doesn't understand this, he needs to be reminded by the coaching staff. The Zips have two quality centers with an average height of 6-10 1/2 and an average weight of more than 260 pounds. Most teams the Zips will face this season cannot match that size and talent level at center. As a team, the Zips need to take advantage of that. The more Pat and Big Dog score inside, the more things will open up for Tree.

Dave. I like just about everything in this post. But, please don't compare a players shooting percentage to someone from last year when we are only 4 games into a 30 game season. And trust me, players know how well their fellow teammates are capable of finishing plays.

[Dave in Green]

@skip-zip, it's perfectly valid to make that shooting percentage comparison for perspective within the context of the overall point that Pat and Big Dog so far this season have been reliable inside scoring options when given the opportunity. The only way to know if they can maintain that shooting percentage for the season is to continue to feed the ball to them and give them opportunities. This is all in agreement with your original statement that Tree should "get more confidence that Big Dog or Pat can finish plays for us with an extra pass down low."

[Warriors4life]

Can anyone tell me why Coach D hasn't played Kwan Cheatham Jr? Does he plan to redshirt the freshman?