CiT First Round: Akron @ IPFW Mastadons

[a-zip]

All of the above? Why do we have to be content with where we are?

I'm extremely grateful for what KD has done, but that doesn't mean we can't get better.

OK, it is fine to want it but how does it get done? What is a good plan/strategy? This is an open forum so we can wish for anything we want, say anything we want. Hell, I want it too!!! There are fiscal responsibilities that come with taking the next step - it is not going to happen in the MAC I can tell you that! We need better recruits and we need to get in a different conference, in order to do that it, we need money.

I hate to say this BUT - there are many passionate/caring fans on ZN.o I don't think the rest of Akron gives a crap.

[zippy5]

Hey if I knew the answer, I would be making more money. It starts with winning a big game and generating some fan interest. Joe Akron knows we can beat Miami U. Joe Akron becomes invested when we beat Iowa St/VCU/Notre Dame/St Marys/Gonzaga, etc. Until then, we're small time. And maybe rightfully so.

[Dr Z]

it is not going to happen in the MAC I can tell you that

Pretend basketball were the only sport at Akron. What conference do you see us moving to?

PS When I read your cut and paste bio of KD from gozips.com, it made me think of Marvin Lewis.

[Captain Kangaroo]

OK, I've got that… But what does that mean? You guys are missing my point

No one is missing your point.

You are asking "What does 'Think Bigger' mean?" And when they tell you their opinion, you completely discount it because it doesn't match what you think it should mean.

There are three "Think" options in 2014:

1.) "Think Less" - This would be what the Zips accomplished in 2013-14. We were a worse team than at any point in the past 9 years. Finished 4th in the MAC. Didn't play in the finals. Lost in round 1 of a low-tier post-season tournament.

2.) "Think the Same": If you think the same, you continue with the status quo. You win the MAC roughly every other year. Win 22+ games, albeit mostly against cupcakes. And you get beaten in the NCAA tourney bi- / tri-annually. Note: Teams like K.e.n.t., OU and CMU have proven within the past decade not a "given" with a MAC budget, MAC facilities and MAC-level athletes.

3.) "Think Bigger" - In Akron, "Think Bigger" does not mean "Dance a Jig Because We Won 20 Games." Think Bigger means you want to achieve someting bigger than you have done in the past. KD is on record as saying he wants to be the first mid-major program to win the NCAA tournament. He is on record as saying he wants to be "The Gonzaga of the East." So if you are looking for someone to chide regarding "thinking bigger," email Keith Dambrot.

I have read your idea of Thinking Bigger. To me it reads exactly like "Think the Same."

If you read my version of "Think Bigger" it will have absolutely nothing to do with not understanding your version. You asked my opinion, and here it is:

"Think Bigger" means elevating the Program to a level is has never reached. That means winning the MAC, and subsequently winning an NCAA Tourney game. This has been accomplished by MAC, Horizon League, Summit League, Ivy League...scores of other mid-major leagues. With identical fan bases and budgets and the Zips.

Until we do that, we are "Accomlishing the Same" or "Accomplishing Less."

[jupitertoo]

OK, it is fine to want it but how does it get done? What is a good plan/strategy? This is an open forum so we can wish for anything we want, say anything we want. Hell, I want it too!!! There are fiscal responsibilities that come with taking the next step - it is not going to happen in the MAC I can tell you that! We need better recruits and we need to get in a different conference, in order to do that it, we need money.

I hate to say this BUT - there are many passionate/caring fans on ZN.o I don't think the rest of Akron gives a crap.

Akron's long-term investment in D1 football has doomed it to low-mid-major BBall. That's true of several other MAC schools, as well, including Can't, Ohio and Toledo. There's no way to support the huge financial requirements of FB (even if we're not particularly successful) and break out of the mid-major trap in BB. Dayton doesn't face the same constraints…nor do VCU, Xavier, Butler and many, many others. And there's no way Akron can turn back after throwing 60MM into InfoCision Stadium. In retrospect, the school would have been better served to build a $35MM on-campus stadium (without Tower to the Gods for Proenza and crew) and invest another $35-$50MM in BBall. Don't know how you get where you need to go in BBall without some very rich guy leaving the program $50MM at this point.

[zippy5]

Pretend basketball were the only sport at Akron. What conference do you see us moving to?

PS When I read your cut and paste bio of KD from gozips.com, it made me think of Marvin Lewis.

I for one would love to see us in the A-10 for basketball. We'd be a decent fit, and they play some good ball.

[Dave in Green]

In these regular discussions, we tend to take sides and throw back the pros and cons at each other as if the other side doesn't get it. In fact I think we all get it. There are two simple questions that prove that:

1) Is there anyone who's unhappy with or doesn't appreciate the improvement in overall performance of Zips basketball under Coach Dambrot compared with that of the prior decade?

2) Is there anyone who's totally satisfied with the current level in overall performance that Zips basketball has achieved and believes Zips basketball has peaked and we should just be happy with what we've got and not wish for more?

I think the answer to both of those questions is a unanimous no. That puts us all in agreement on a fundamental starting point for a discussion on what we think might be done to raise the level of Zips basketball even higher than the above average level it's already reached. I know that I'm open to considering anyone's suggestions.

Anyone who offers a suggestion or opinion should expect to be questioned about how realistic it is and what it would take to implement. But those questions shouldn't be in the form of an attack, and we shouldn't be too sensitive to thinking we're being attacked. Remember, we're all Zips fans. We're all on the same side with the same basic goal of wanting to see Zips basketball get even better than it already is. Let's work together on this.

[Dr Z]

I for one would love to see us in the A-10 for basketball. We'd be a decent fit, and they play some good ball.

I am all for watching some good ball at the JAR, I have sat through some lousy games over the past decade. I just wish the MAC was a good basketball conference the way it used to be. That's probably a more realalistic "wish." I wonder what the Zips record would be in the A-10 this year?

[Valpo Zip]

Those of you portraying the problem as being a financial issue are way off!

Check this link of the top 60~ish salaries of college basketball coaches: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/salaries/ncaab/coach/

KD checks in at 48 in the nation and top of the mac.

We lost to an IPFW team that was coached by a third year coach who makes $92,600 a year and plays in a 2500 seat gym. Do they have more resources? why did they have a better team?

It swill sure be nice to have a new arena and a $50M and all that but all the other mid majors winning games at the NCAA tournament do not necessarily have that (Can't, Ohio, North Dakota, etc...)

The program did not have more money when we had people like Jeff Boals, Shaka Smart, and Lamont Paris as assistant coaches. We don't have that caliber of people simply because KD decided to have a staff of exclusively "his" people. In academia, this is known as academic incest and almost all universities do not allow it.

[jupitertoo]

Those of you portraying the problem as being a financial issue are way off!

Check this link of the top 60~ish salaries of college basketball coaches: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/salaries/ncaab/coach/

KD checks in at 48 in the nation and top of the mac.

We lost to an IPFW team that was coached by a third year coach who makes $92,600 a year and plays in a 2500 seat gym. Do they have more resources? why did they have a better team?

It swill sure be nice to have a new arena and a $50M and all that but all the other mid majors winning games at the NCAA tournament do not necessarily have that (Can't, Ohio, North Dakota, etc...)

The program did not have more money when we had people like Jeff Boals, Shaka Smart, and Lamont Paris as assistant coaches. We don't have that caliber of people simply because KD decided to have a staff of exclusively "his" people. In academia, this is known as academic incest and almost all universities do not allow it.

Quality of MAC basketball is actually on an upswing. Toledo's program has finally recovered, EMU has made huge strides and several teams have great recruiting classes coming in. Ohio's recruiting class is very strong…and KD continues to raise the bar in his efforts. Next three-four years should/could be a very interesting period for fans...

[Dave in Green]

We know that small schools with limited resources occasionally stumble on the winning formula and outperform bigger schools with more resources. The question is whether or not it's sustainable. Florida Gulf Coast did it last season and fell off this season. Where will they be next season and the season after? IPFW has had one good season. What will their record be over the next decade? There are short-term fixes that might get you a bump up for a season or two only to land you back in mediocrity. Whatever approach UA takes, I want it to be sustainable.

[Dr Z]

We know that small schools with limited resources occasionally stumble on the winning formula and outperform bigger schools with more resources. The question is whether or not it's sustainable. Florida Gulf Coast did it last season and fell off this season. Where will they be next season and the season after? IPFW has had one good season. What will their record be over the next decade? There are short-term fixes that might get you a bump up for a season or two only to land you back in mediocrity. Whatever approach UA takes, I want it to be sustainable.

Not me! Give me ONE good season. I want an NCAA ride like Ken+ fans got. I don't give a crap about sustainablity. Sustainable? Give me just one ride in the NCAA tournament! I swear I thought the time was going to be Zeke's senior year. I still feel like we missed the boat. Sustainable? I don't get. I guess it's a relative term, but I have to be misunderstanding. I would trade 10 years of mediocrity for ONE ride in the tournament.

[Dave in Green]

Would you trade 10 years of mediocrity in football for one big bowl game?

[Hilltopper]

Not me! Give me ONE good season. I want an NCAA ride like Ken+ fans got. I don't give a crap about sustainablity. Sustainable? Give me just one ride in the NCAA tournament! I swear I thought the time was going to be Zeke's senior year. I still feel like we missed the boat. Sustainable? I don't get. I guess it's a relative term, but I have to be misunderstanding. I would trade 10 years of mediocrity for ONE ride in the tournament.

I really believe that last season was going to be our breakout. With Z, Q, AA and Tree that team was stacked. Then two things happened. Were either of them something the coach could have foreseen or controlled? IMHO, the answer is NO! Unfortunately one of those events had a big effect on this season too. Considering everything that happened, its a miracle we won 21 games. I think KD is already making changes to get us back onto the right path.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I've sat through 10 years of crap football (oh, what a dream "mediocre" football would be), without any minor bowl success, let-alone a big bowl.

The Zips in The Orange Bowl? F*ck yeah, I'd trade it. Anyone would.

[a-zip]

We know that small schools with limited resources occasionally stumble on the winning formula and outperform bigger schools with more resources. The question is whether or not it's sustainable. Florida Gulf Coast did it last season and fell off this season. Where will they be next season and the season after? IPFW has had one good season. What will their record be over the next decade? There are short-term fixes that might get you a bump up for a season or two only to land you back in mediocrity. Whatever approach UA takes, I want it to be sustainable.

Thank you!! I do think KD's formula is sustainable. You made a great point on Florida Gulf Coast. They had a nice run, lost their coach and went 22-14 this year. I bet we never hear from them again. I don’t want that. I just checked and IPFW lost to Dayton by 1 point (who beat the dreaded Fuckeyes) - they are good, I do think we should have won though. I am not sure about the other MAC schools that made runs but my bet is they had a lot of upper classman on their teams and are not heard from again for a while. We are consistently good. Look at the roster of the Mercer team that just beat Duke. Think we will hear from them again? Go bless em' though, good luck.

http://mercerbears.com/sports/mbkb/2013-14/teams/mercer?view=lineup

[Dr Z]

Would you trade 10 years of mediocrity in football for one big bowl game?

Seriously? Hell yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What kind of question is that?

[Dave in Green]

Doesn't really matter as it's a red herring argument to debate trading things you have no control over trading. If you look at 351 D-I basketball programs, of course any one of them in a given year could have a run. But the odds against any one school doing that are much steeper. I don't care about the other 350 programs. I care about Zips basketball. I think the Zips' best odds of having a great season are to have a lot of consistently good seasons.

Last season was the best shot so far. Zeke was much better in all aspects of his game. The team was so strong that it won 19 games in a row despite the loss of the team's star wing (Q) for the season. The loss of the team's only quality PG at the end of the season was the death knell, and the sick and injured players in the tournament was the final kick in the gut. Last season's team with Q starting at the wing and Alex not being distracted by outside business interests would have been poised to produce the MAC's first undefeated conference champion and an NCAA tournament win or two.

The Zips' current resources and coaching staff got us that close. We didn't have to trade 10 seasons of mediocrity to get that close even if it were possible to trade 10 seasons of mediocrity for one brief burst of glory. Nope, give me a consistent, sustainable program that's already proven it can get us close, year after year. When 21 wins is a bad season, great seasons are always within reach.

[BirdZip]

Thank you!! I do think KD's formula is sustainable. You made a great point on Florida Gulf Coast. They had a nice run, lost their coach and went 22-14 this year. I bet we never hear from them again. I don’t want that. I just checked and IPFW lost to Dayton by 1 point (who beat the dreaded *uckeyes) - they are good, I do think we should have won though. I am not sure about the other MAC schools that made runs but my bet is they had a lot of upper classman on their teams and are not heard from again for a while. We are consistently good. Look at the roster of the Mercer team that just beat Duke. Think we will hear from them again? Go bless em' though, good luck.

http://mercerbears.com/sports/mbkb/2013-14/teams/mercer?view=lineup

How long have these Mercer players been seniors? I believe their coach has been there 6 years...

2009: 17-15 record, no postseason

2010: 16-17 record, no postseason (lost conference championship)

2011: 15-18 record, no postseason

2012: 27-11 record, Won 5 straight games in the CIT (won the tournament)

2013: 24-12 record, lost in conference championship, Beat Tennessee in the NIT before falling to BYU

2014: 27-8 record, won conference championship, Beat Duke in NCAA tourney and still alive

[Dr Z]

Doesn't really matter as it's a red herring argument to debate trading things you have no control over trading.

Have you ever rooted for a major sports franchise (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL) that has won it all in the last 40 years?

[Balsy]

I think the point to make with "sustained success" vs. "One year with a good run" is that one can technically lead to the other. We still haven't had the "one year with a good run" which is what you need "sustained success" for in order to get to.

[zippy5]

I think the point to make with "sustained success" vs. "One year with a good run" is that one can technically lead to the other. We still haven't had the "one year with a good run" which is what you need "sustained success" for in order to get to.

I think a one year run has a better chance of creating "sustained success."

[Dave in Green]

@Dr Z, as a matter of fact, I've rooted for several professional franchises that have won it all over the last 40 years.

i also have one more thought on your trade perspective: I'd be willing to trade 10 seasons of mediocrity for one season of glory as long as you were the one sitting through 10 seasons of mediocre performance and not me.

[GP1]

The question is whether or not it's sustainable.

Why does it have to be either/or? VCU seems to be a program that can do both. Why can't we be like that?

[Dr Z]

I'd be willing to trade 10 seasons of mediocrity for one season of glory as long as you were the one sitting through 10 seasons of mediocre performance and not me.

Deal. I sat through the last 10 years of mediocrity, what's 10 more. I hear the older you get, the faster time goes anyway.