Game 26—@ PCCC

[akronzips71]

We need some tall guys, nothing else will help.

[skip-zip]

7 minutes ago, akronzips71 said:

We need some tall guys, nothing else will help.

 

That could be disputed on many levels:

 

1) At least at the Guard spots, we're probably bigger this year than we've ever been.  

2) The MAC has always been a Guard's league.

3) For many years, we've won in this league with "short" guys in the paint.  Treadwell, Wood, Romeo. 

4) We have a really huge guy playing 20+ minutes right now, and he's not helping us at all.

 

Thinking that we just need more size is probably a natural reaction to what you're witnessing right now.  But really, we just need a lot more better players.    

 

 

[Let'sGoZips94]

2 hours ago, skip-zip said:

 

That could be disputed on many levels:

 

1) At least at the Guard spots, we're probably bigger this year than we've ever been.  

2) The MAC has always been a Guard's league.

3) For many years, we've won in this league with "short" guys in the paint.  Treadwell, Wood, Romeo. 

4) We have a really huge guy playing 20+ minutes right now, and he's not helping us at all.

 

Thinking that we just need more size is probably a natural reaction to what you're witnessing right now.  But really, we just need a lot more better players.    

 

 

 

I agree with most of this, but aside from a big freshman, our next tallest guy is 6'6" right now. I think by saying, "we need some tall guys," that could be referring to anybody taller than 6'6". We have two 6'9" guys hurt and a 6'10" transfer that's sitting out. That will definitely help. We need the depth inside. KLac commits some stupid fouls, but I also wonder if his game is altered by having to play less physical due to our lack of depth at his position right now. He can't play as freely. I also wouldn't says he'snot helping us at all. He had two big blocks yesterday that helped keep us in the game. His offensive production leaves something to be desired, but he has the foundation of moves to be a force in years to come. 

 

We definitely just need more skilled depth. We're throwing out a makeshift, majority-freshman roster game in and game out, hindered even more by injuries. I fully expect to see a big step taken next year with the transfers, a full year's worth of recruiting, and current player development. We've been blown out in a couple MAC games, but have given the majority of the MAC everything they can handle. We have to keep everything in perspective this year. Most of these MAC squads are in their 4th+ year of their coach and system, and we're everything they can handle most of the time with a decimated roster and in the first year of a new coach/system. 

 

It sucks to lose to Can't, but it's promising that we were a couple baskets going our way from knocking off the team that returned 95% of its MAC Finals roster, a roster that beat us in those finals, with what we have at the moment.

 

Great effort yesterday, and we'll get them at home. Go Zips, and be thankful every day that you aren't a Can't fan/grad.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Let'sGoZips94

[Zip JD]

2 hours ago, skip-zip said:

 

That could be disputed on many levels:

 

1) At least at the Guard spots, we're probably bigger this year than we've ever been.  

2) The MAC has always been a Guard's league.

3) For many years%2

[Zip JD]

2 hours ago, skip-zip said:

 

That could be disputed on many levels:

 

1) At least at the Guard spots, we're probably bigger this year than we've ever been.  

2) The MAC has always been a Guard's league.

3) For many years, we've won in this league with "short" guys in the paint.  Treadwell, Wood, Romeo. 

4) We have a really huge guy playing 20+ minutes right now, and he's not helping us at all.

 

Thinking that we just need more size is probably a natural reaction to what you're witnessing right now.  But really, we just need a lot more better players.    

 

 

There is a lot of truth to this, but Wood, Treadwell and Romeo could all rebound and defend in the paint.  What they lacked in height they made up with athleticism and high basketball IQ's.  We have nobody who can do that right now.  Our interior defense is nonexistent and we give up a lot of back door cuts due to inexperienced players and no rim protector.  

 

I am continually amazed that more MAC schools do not feed the ball into their bigs like Ball State did against us.  

[Blue & Gold]

35 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

We're throwing out a makeshift, majority-freshman roster game in and game out, hindered even more by injuries. I fully expect to see a big step taken next year with the transfers, a full year's worth of recruiting, and current player development. We've been blown out in a couple MAC games, but have given the majority of the MAC everything they can handle. We have to keep everything in perspective this yeat. Most of these MAC squads are in their 4th+ year of their coach and system, and we're everything they can handle most of the time with a decimated roster and in the first year of a new coach/system. 

 

Well said.

[skip-zip]

46 minutes ago, Zip JD said:

There is a lot of truth to this, but Wood, Treadwell and Romeo could all rebound and defend in the paint.  What they lacked in height they made up with athleticism

 

Yep.  They were just good basketball players who got a lot done, despite being undersized.  That was my point in responding to a post that was making a blanket statement that nothing else will help us except more size.  

 

1 hour ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

His offensive production leaves something to be desired, but he has the foundation of moves to be a force in years to come. 

 

A force?  I think there's still a couple of you who are really seeing this through some extremely rose-colored glasses.  And it's not just the offensive woes.   

 

This is pretty simple.  When a guy 6'-11" plays 20 minutes and commits 5 fouls and has 2 turnovers, and can only muster 2 points and 2 rebounds, you better hope you get some guys the following year who are good enough to put him back to 2 minutes a game coming off of the bench.  And I think that was one of his better performances this year. 

 

And lets be honest.  Even the guy who was playing in front of him and getting all of his minutes before the medical problem isn't the long term solution either.    

[NWAkron]

13 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

Yep.  They were just good basketball players who got a lot done, despite being undersized.  That was my point in responding to a post that was making a blanket statement that nothing else will help us except more size.  

 

 

A force?  I think there's still a couple of you who are really seeing this through some extremely rose-colored glasses.  And it's not just the offensive woes.   

 

This is pretty simple.  When a guy 6'-11" plays 20 minutes and commits 5 fouls and has 2 turnovers, and can only muster 2 points and 2 rebounds, you better hope you get some guys the following year who are good enough to put him back to 2 minutes a game coming off of the bench.  And I think that was one of his better performances this year. 

 

And lets be honest.  Even the guy who was playing in front of him and getting all of his minutes before the medical problem isn't the long term solution either.    

Haven't you figured out Skip that some of us like our rose-colored glasses.  And being honest with ourselves isn't any fun either.   

[Let'sGoZips94]

41 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

Yep.  They were just good basketball players who got a lot done, despite being undersized.  That was my point in responding to a post that was making a blanket statement that nothing else will help us except more size.  

 

 

A force?  I think there's still a couple of you who are really seeing this through some extremely rose-colored glasses.  And it's not just the offensive woes.   

 

This is pretty simple.  When a guy 6'-11" plays 20 minutes and commits 5 fouls and has 2 turnovers, and can only muster 2 points and 2 rebounds, you better hope you get some guys the following year who are good enough to put him back to 2 minutes a game coming off of the bench.  And I think that was one of his better performances this year. 

 

And lets be honest.  Even the guy who was playing in front of him and getting all of his minutes before the medical problem isn't the long term solution either.    

 

It's called development. I said he has a foundation of moves (referring to his post moves), which he does. Did you see him split the double team for the layup yesterday (I still would like to see a replay; I don't believe he traveled)? We have never had a freshman big man with offensive post moves like he has. He doesn't quite play up to DI speed yet, but again, he should continue to develop and I think he will be a force. He peeves off every single big man he plays against, and you don't do that unless you have some sort of physical ability and talent, raw or developed. 

 

Poke might not be the answer long term, but he plays hard and gives us another body to spell KLac. Sayles is the one I have my eyes on to be a star PF, with Riak hopefully being a stud center. Let's see what Groce brings in this year and next year. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Let'sGoZips94

[skip-zip]

1 hour ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Poke might not be the answer long term, but he plays hard and gives us another body to spell KLac.

 

Spell him?  Poke (who is only a mildly adequate big man) was getting 20-30 minutes per game, while Kostelac was getting 2.    

 

1 hour ago, NWAkron said:

Haven't you figured out Skip that some of us like our rose-colored glasses.  And being honest with ourselves isn't any fun either.   

 

I really did laugh when I saw this.  Good post.  

[Akronfan111]

2 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

It's called development. I said he has a foundation of moves (referring to his post moves), which he does. Did you see him split the double team for the layup yesterday (I still would like to see a replay; I don't believe he traveled)? We have never had a freshman big man with offensive post moves like he has. He doesn't quite play up to DI speed yet, but again, he should continue to develop and I think he will be a force. He peeves off every single big man he plays against, and you don't do that unless you have some sort of physical ability and talent, raw or developed

I always find it interesting how many fans love him and how many hate him.  He does peeve off every big man he play. I like Mark klac a lot. He does a lot of good things out there that aren't translated on the stat sheet. I don't think we have even begun to see what this kid will do.  He touches the ball 2-3 times a game. Not a lot of offense will come from that. I personally think he's a power forward, not a 5. 

It'seasy to hate the big guy. He's too slow, he makes dumb fouls, he's too physical... A true big man takes time. This kid is huge and hes athletic.  It drives me crazy when he boxes out and doesn't get the rebound - but neither does his man. He just let's anouther Zip scoop it up. I call that not being selfish for the good of the team. Yes some are dumb fouls, but so many are garbage. We run an offense that lends to chucking up three with no interior game. Like I said we are one dimensional. Our point guard had zero assists last night. I think it will all come together as they develop the guys. I can't wait to see how this team develops in the next couple years. It's going to come together. Bottom line is winning solves a lot and we are losing.

[Akronfan111]

Thank goodness for Smith so we can have a 5 when there is no match up for Mark.  I like Smith a lot too.  Hope he earned a spot back on the team next year cuz we would be screwed without him right now!

 

[clarkwgriswold]

I think we all wish the best for K-lac.  I moved from my regular spot at the JAR to a spot where I can watch the bench and he's always engaged and supportive of his teammates.  He also just seems like a good kid, so he's easy to root for.  He's been thrust into a very tough position this year and could end up as the number 4 big man on the team next year.  If someday he develops into a 12 to 15 minute, 6 to 8 point 4-5 rebound guy, I'll be perfectly content with that.

[skip-zip]

2 hours ago, Akronfan111 said:

He touches the ball 2-3 times a game. 

 

You think there might be a reason why his teammates don't feed him the ball, or the coach isn't creating a situation where he gets more touches ?  

 

I'm not as interested as you in whether people love him or hate him.  I don't think anyone hates him.  In fact, guys like him tend to become big fan favorites.  I'm just stunned that a few people are displaying delusion in what they are seeing, and in his potential. 

 

55 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

I think we all wish the best for K-lac.  I moved from my regular spot at the JAR to a spot where I can watch the bench and he's always engaged and supportive of his teammates.  He also just seems like a good kid, so he's easy to root for.  He's been thrust into a very tough position this year and could end up as the number 4 big man on the team next year.  If someday he develops into a 12 to 15 minute, 6 to 8 point 4-5 rebound guy, I'll be perfectly content with that.

 

I think this is a really good and realistic post.  He probably will indeed start next season at the back of the pack among the post players again, as you suggest.  But if he can ever give us an average of 6 points and a few rebounds at some point in his career, I would say that should make us all happy, based on what we see now.   I just don't think he'll ever get enough playing time again to do that. 

[akronzips71]

Tree and Harney et al were NOT undersized. 6'8 is not undersized.

When Jake and Reggie were here we had 6'7 at the wings. And 7' at center.

Now when Klac sits the biggest guy on the floor is 6'6. Maybe

Cotton trying to guard Delarosa inside. Right.

[skip-zip]

24 minutes ago, akronzips71 said:

Tree and Harney et al were NOT undersized. 6'8 is not undersized.

 

The 3 guys I referenced were Wood, Romeo, and Treadwell.  And I assure you that none of them were anywhere close to 6'-8"

[Hilltopper]

16 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

The 3 guys I referenced were Wood, Romeo, and Treadwell.  And I assure you that none of them were anywhere close to 6'-8"

Define not anywhere close to 6'8".

[akronzips71]

25 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

The 3 guys I referenced were Wood, Romeo, and Treadwell.  And I assure you that none of them were anywhere close to 6'-8"

https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Tree-Treadwell/Summary/31289

[akronzips71]

25 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

The 3 guys I referenced were Wood, Romeo, and Treadwell.  And I assure you that none of them were anywhere close to 6'-8"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_Travis

[akronzips71]

Like I said, 6'1 Cotton taking the 7 footer underneath. Priceless

[Blue & Gold]

Wood: 6-6

Tree: 6-7

Rome: 6-7

 

Since I stand a whopping 5-8, I consider the above heights pretty close to 6-8. Lol

[Illini Zip]

8 minutes ago, akronzips71 said:

Like I said, 6'1 Cotton taking the 7 footer underneath. Priceless

 

Just wait, watching Loren Jackson caught on a switch with a 7 footer will be even better.  

[Illini Zip]

23 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

I thought the effort was really good today.  I saw a good team play, some unselfish passing and some really good effort.  Unfortunately, this team folded in the last 5 minutes at the same time Kent got hot from the 3 line.  I think if this team shows this effort the rest of the season we could still get some wins.  I thought that Groce made a bad sub in the last 5 minutes taking out Parish and putting in Smith.  Having Smith play forward and Klac playing center puts us at a disadvantage offensively since neither can score with any consistentcy. (They had a total of 2 points with one shot between them)  Parish made a big 3 the last 5 minutes and was playing well.  As soon as Smith came in a Kent player blew past him and made a layup.  I would like to see Klac post up his man.  This team does not get him the ball in the post.  I did like how we spread the floor when Utomi was playing center.  It opened up the paint and Duvivier and Jimond had some nice drives even though Jimond could not finish.  This team may stand a chance at Bowling Green with this effort.  Go Zips!

 

I think this is one of those times Groce would say he had good reason to pull Parish for Smith, but now knowing the end result of that decision he would choose differently. Fans at Illinois would get angry at Groce all the time when he would pull the hot hand out of the game. The thing is a guy might be hitting his shots, but is showing real signs of fatigue on defense so Groce will get him a rest. Parish was back in the game pretty fast if I'm not mistaken, but damage was done no doubt. What's funny is when a player is sucking wind and dying for a breather and Groce pretends not to see him because he needs his production. So that actually goes both ways.

 

Why the guards are not even looking at K-lac when he rolls to the rim is beyond me.

 

[Illini Zip]

9 hours ago, Akronfan111 said:

I always find it interesting how many fans love him and how many hate him.  He does peeve off every big man he play. I like Mark klac a lot. He does a lot of good things out there that aren't translated on the stat sheet. I don't think we have even begun to see what this kid will do.  He touches the ball 2-3 times a game. Not a lot of offense will come from that. I personally think he's a power forward, not a 5. 

It'seasy to hate the big guy. He's too slow, he makes dumb fouls, he's too physical... A true big man takes time. This kid is huge and hes athletic.  It drives me crazy when he boxes out and doesn't get the rebound - but neither does his man. He just let's anouther Zip scoop it up. I call that not being selfish for the good of the team. Yes some are dumb fouls, but so many are garbage. We run an offense that lends to chucking up three with no interior game. Like I said we are one dimensional. Our point guard had zero assists last night. I think it will all come together as they develop the guys. I can't wait to see how this team develops in the next couple years. It's going to come together. Bottom line is winning solves a lot and we are losing.

 

That's a nice observation. It took me a while to pick up on that and it is built into the design of the defense. Often the guards will end up with more rebounds then the bigs for this very reason. So don't let it drive you crazy. 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Illini Zip

[skip-zip]

12 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

Wood: 6-6

Tree: 6-7

Rome: 6-7

 

Since I stand a whopping 5-8, I consider the above heights pretty close to 6-8. Lol

 

 

I think those numbers should answer the question.  They were indeed all "listed" at 6-6 to 6-7, which should give you a good indication that their actual heighths were not close to 6"-8"

 

With the exception of Treadwell (who wasn't really the exclusive post guy until Zeke's departure), the other two were literally playing their entire careers here as our "center",   Even in the MAC, those guys were playing playing at a disadvantage, and all did very well.  

 

I've "been there, done that" on the basketball player height listings.  And if you were ever around all of them during the course of their careers, talked to them, took pictures with them, etc., it would make you laugh.