Kostelac Possibly Transferring

[NWAkron]

Just saw an article on ABJ.  He's suing.?

[clarkwgriswold]

The most predictable filing in the history of American jurisprudence-

 

https://www.beaconjournal.com/news/20191024/former-university-of-akron-basketball-player-files-suit-following-assault-during-practice

[dre22era]

Lol good morning Groce Defenders  

[NWAkron]

2 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

The most predictable filing in the history of American jurisprudence-

 

https://www.beaconjournal.com/news/20191024/former-university-of-akron-basketball-player-files-suit-following-assault-during-practice

At least he has a decent attorney who knew to file in the Court of Claims and not the Common Pleas Court 

[akronzips71]

It may be a winner. Depends on his testimony and whether any of the others back him up.

In any case, it is a bad allegation to be brought against the coach.

There is a taint even if not true, because that is how we roll today. Guilty until proven innocent.

[Blue & Gold]

From the article:

Kostelac alleges he suffered discrimination because he is white and the majority of members of the team were black. He also alleges he was targeted for his religion because he is Catholic.

 

Wait a minute... are we talking about Kostelac or Scott Walter?  

[clarkwgriswold]

16 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

From the article:

Kostelac alleges he suffered discrimination because he is white and the majority of members of the team were black. He also alleges he was targeted for his religion because he is Catholic.

 

Wait a minute... are we talking about Kostelac or Scott Walter?  

 

Scotty looked pretty intimidated next to his teammates at the ice cream social.  ?

 

I had two main worries with this situation.  First, how did it get to this level?  Usually that hostility builds, it's not an unexpected lashing out.  Second, he drove himself to the hospital.  Those are now questions for the Court of Claims.

Edited October 25, 2019 by clarkwgriswold

[akronzips71]

21 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

Scotty looked pretty intimidated next to his teammates at the ice cream social.  ?

 

I had two main worries with this situation.  First, how did it get to this level?  Usually that hostility builds, it's not an unexpected lashing out.  Second, he drove himself to the hospital.  Those are now questions for the Court of Claims.

I think his injuries and surgeries are well documented, so the fact that he refused medical transport at the scene probably is of no import. As well, the other guy was convicted of a crime, so liability as to HIM is well established.

Whether he can hold the University liable is the question. He will probably need more than his own testimony to make the racism case. But I think as a general principle of liability the University may be somewhat on the hook.

They will, of course, claim they are not liable for the CRIMINAL act of another. But they *may* get nailed for the coach not controlling the atmosphere. Remains to be seen.

 

I am surprised he did not name the guy who hit him as a defendant. There is no finding of fact as to him to go to a jury, just an inquest as to damages (because of the criminal conviction). A lot of times people go for that to get a judgement, in case the guy wins the lottery or gets a pro contract or inherits money or whatever.

[clarkwgriswold]

42 minutes ago, akronzips71 said:

I think his injuries and surgeries are well documented, so the fact that he refused medical transport at the scene probably is of no import. As well, the other guy was convicted of a crime, so liability as to HIM is well established.

Whether he can hold the University liable is the question. He will probably need more than his own testimony to make the racism case. But I think as a general principle of liability the University may be somewhat on the hook.

They will, of course, claim they are not liable for the CRIMINAL act of another. But they *may* get nailed for the coach not controlling the atmosphere. Remains to be seen.

 

I am surprised he did not name the guy who hit him as a defendant. There is no finding of fact as to him to go to a jury, just an inquest as to damages (because of the criminal conviction). A lot of times people go for that to get a judgement, in case the guy wins the lottery or gets a pro contract or inherits money or whatever.

 

Maybe as a non-state actor (Gueye) the Court of Claims is not the proper forum for a case against him.  Also, I suspect he's not collectable.

 

Here's a link to the complaint-

 

https://ohcourtportal.tylerhost.net/Portal/DocumentViewer/Index/JSHNe2P1SDNQmsBqI6uaok_Mg3zcBXLSbkYlNuGafIX2qrO47lsub3IEsNv4Oh9WA8pe-mfm_mOhKfaqq_4NhMdDNI7MVtV7Z22oHvVSQ3HYLagEoljL8f8fUCCIooiT0?p=0

Edited October 25, 2019 by clarkwgriswold

[akronzips71]

Thanks for the link.

This asks more questions than it answers.

Were there any previous complaints about the hostile "workplace".

Is there any proof of the racism complaint, other than potential testimony by Mark?

They allege they "allowed" him to drive home.

Devils advocate: They are not doctors and did not know the extent of his injuries.

How do you stop a 6'11" guy from leaving?

OTOH there could be a valid case for failure to supervise and failure to provide a safe environment.

I wonder if the University is going to indemnify and defend Groce or throw him under the bus.

He may need to pay his own lawyer, that is common in the case of multiple defendants, their interests may not ultimately be the same. i.e. The University may try to lay all the blame on Groce and avoid liability. That is pretty common.

Should be an interesting case.

[NWAkron]

1 hour ago, akronzips71 said:

Thanks for the link.

This asks more questions than it answers.

Were there any previous complaints about the hostile "workplace".

Is there any proof of the racism complaint, other than potential testimony by Mark?

They allege they "allowed" him to drive home.

Devils advocate: They are not doctors and did not know the extent of his injuries.

How do you stop a 6'11" guy from leaving?

OTOH there could be a valid case for failure to supervise and failure to provide a safe environment.

I wonder if the University is going to indemnify and defend Groce or throw him under the bus.

He may need to pay his own lawyer, that is common in the case of multiple defendants, their interests may not ultimately be the same. i.e. The University may try to lay all the blame on Groce and avoid liability. That is pretty common.

Should be an interesting case.

The Court of Claims is a notoriously tough place to win a judgment.  All we know from this is that Mark was able to hire a lawyer who filed a complaint.  The allegations of discrimination are not backed up by and facts in the complaint.  I think it would be very difficult to tie racial and religious(?) discrimination to Gueye's assault on Mark.  If there was discrimination going on, Mark had the opportunity to file a complaint with the university before this occurred.  There are way too many unanswered questions.  Frankly, I'm sure when this occurred Williams and the university brass looked into it.  Also, the complaint says this occurred at the rec center and not at the JAR.  Was this during an official practice?  My memory was that this was a pick-up game between these two with a lot elbows flying.   Mark has to make some causation between the actions or inactions of the coaching staff and the injury.  This could get tossed very quickly or maybe a settlement is reached without a finding of fault.

[akronzips71]

Lawyers love to sue the government in the hopes of a settlement.

Here in NY, the lawyers employed by the government tend to be horrible and you can beat them in Court.

The other question here is this: WERE ANY COMPLAINTS MADE BY MARK OR OTHERS BEFORE THIS INCIDENT.

The point being these are confidential and are not released to the public, in particular if they did not make a formal affirmative finding.

So the open question is, what will his lawyer find out in discovery?

Maybe nothing, maybe there is a record of this issue.

Time will tell.

[Hilltopper]

1 hour ago, NWAkron said:

The Court of Claims is a notoriously tough place to win a judgment.  All we know from this is that Mark was able to hire a lawyer who filed a complaint.  The allegations of discrimination are not backed up by and facts in the complaint.  I think it would be very difficult to tie racial and religious(?) discrimination to Gueye's assault on Mark.  If there was discrimination going on, Mark had the opportunity to file a complaint with the university before this occurred.  There are way too many unanswered questions.  Frankly, I'm sure when this occurred Williams and the university brass looked into it.  Also, the complaint says this occurred at the rec center and not at the JAR.  Was this during an official practice?  My memory was that this was a pick-up game between these two with a lot elbows flying.   Mark has to make some causation between the actions or inactions of the coaching staff and the injury.  This could get tossed very quickly or maybe a settlement is reached without a finding of fault.

Happened at the JAR. Not a pick up game. Pretty sure the incident is all on video.

[NWAkron]

45 minutes ago, Hilltopper said:

Happened at the JAR. Not a pick up game. Pretty sure the incident is all on video.

Forgot about the video.  Will be difficult for Mark to demonstrate that he was treated badly because of his race and not because of his ability.  Tough crowd.

[clarkwgriswold]

5 hours ago, akronzips71 said:

I think his injuries and surgeries are well documented, so the fact that he refused medical transport at the scene probably is of no import. As well, the other guy was convicted of a crime, so liability as to HIM is well established.

Whether he can hold the University liable is the question. He will probably need more than his own testimony to make the racism case. But I think as a general principle of liability the University may be somewhat on the hook.

They will, of course, claim they are not liable for the CRIMINAL act of another. But they *may* get nailed for the coach not controlling the atmosphere. Remains to be seen.

 

I am surprised he did not name the guy who hit him as a defendant. There is no finding of fact as to him to go to a jury, just an inquest as to damages (because of the criminal conviction). A lot of times people go for that to get a judgement, in case the guy wins the lottery or gets a pro contract or inherits money or whatever.

 

I didn't see anything about him refusing transport, just an allegation that the training staff put some steri-strips on his face and he was on his way.  If they misdiagnosed his injuries and let him go with a concussion, they might well be on the hook, particularly if it aggravated his injuries or increased his pain and suffering.  Most likely, this will eventually be worked out and we'll never know what either side had as evidence or what issues were established or conceded.

[akronzips71]

45 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

Forgot about the video.  Will be difficult for Mark to demonstrate that he was treated badly because of his race and not because of his ability.  Tough crowd.

Guys on teams talk locker room talk.

All they need is one tape with the black players talking trash about him as "white meat" or whatever, even if it was said jest as is often the case, and he has a winner. Especially if Groce was present and did not immediately impose disciple.

I worked in the Courts for 30 years. I have no idea what they have or what is on tape, but trust me, all it takes is one and a jury will back him.

[NWAkron]

40 minutes ago, akronzips71 said:

Guys on teams talk locker room talk.

All they need is one tape with the black players talking trash about him as "white meat" or whatever, even if it was said jest as is often the case, and he has a winner. Especially if Groce was present and did not immediately impose disciple.

I worked in the Courts for 30 years. I have no idea what they have or what is on tape, but trust me, all it takes is one and a jury will back him.

Ohio Court of Claims doesn't have jury trials.  He would have to get past a summary judgment motion first.  Anyway, this has gone off the rails.  Unfortunate situation.  Hopefully, they can quietly resolve this.

[Akronfan111]

Groce and the training staff are negligent for not taking him directly to the hospital.  Then letting him drive home in inexcusable.  They wanted to push it under the rug and hope no media got the story.  He never refused transport - they never called transport.  It’s on video with UA police.  I hope this gets rid of Groce .  He’s a > 500 piece of garbage.

[akronzips71]

13 minutes ago, Akronfan111 said:

Groce and the training staff are negligent for not taking him directly to the hospital.  Then letting him drive home in inexcusable.  They wanted to push it under the rug and hope no media got the story.  He never refused transport - they never called transport.  It’s on video with UA police.  I hope this gets rid of Groce .  He’s a > 500 piece of garbage.

Please don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

[Spin]

I never knew a majority could be descriminated against. 

[Zipmeister]

17 minutes ago, Spin said:

I never knew a majority could be descriminated against. 

 

Happens all the time, but it is actually referred to as reverse discrimination.

[NWAkron]

30 minutes ago, Zipmeister said:

 

Happens all the time, but it is actually referred to as reverse discrimination.

It's much, much harder to prove if the plaintiff is not in a suspect class.   Also, he would have to prove that any harassment was because he was white and not because he was a lesser-skilled player for a D1 basketball team.  (I'm not saying it's right to treat the lesser players badly, if that's what occurred here, but it wouldn't be discrimination).  Techinically not reverse discrimination since he's not alleging that Groce and the university were preferring the black players in order to right a past wrong.

Edited October 26, 2019 by NWAkron

[akronzips71]

While I am not familiar with Ohio State laws, I can tell you that in general ALL discrimination is illegal, regardless of the reason.

What is cited above is the Federal standard - certain persons are in a "protected" class and have less of a burden to prove a case.

But in most states, all discrimination is illegal. period.

[NWAkron]

9 hours ago, akronzips71 said:

While I am not familiar with Ohio State laws, I can tell you that in general ALL discrimination is illegal, regardless of the reason.

What is cited above is the Federal standard - certain persons are in a "protected" class and have less of a burden to prove a case.

But in most states, all discrimination is illegal. period.

I didn't say it was legal.  I said it is difficult to prove, especially in this context where his alleged poor treatment may have been because of his playing skills and not his race.  The university and the athletic director would have to handle the first situation and the courts would address the second.

[UA1987]

12 hours ago, Spin said:

I never knew a majority could be descriminated against. 

Dictionary definition of racism - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Minorties can be guilty of descrimination too.