Conference Re-Alignment?

[zippy5]

I'd be more for a bball move to the MVC.

[Hilltopper]

I'm so old I remember when sports talk and sports news actually focused on the game and strategy.

This is much more profitable to ESPN and the like.

[Dave in Green]

Football-first folks have a hard time dealing with the fact the Big East was always a basketball-first conference (though it came to be a heck of a soccer conference along the way). Those who live, breathe and die football, to whom every other sport is a casual distraction, never gave a crap about the Big East, anyway. It was always going to be irrelevant because it wasn't part of Big Football, and football-first folks could care less if it disappears. For everyone else, the intriguing questions now are whether or not there are any viable alternatives in the sporting world to Big Football, and whether or not the remaining members of the Real Big East can do anything about it.

Big East Catholic schools wake up?

[UAZipster0305]

A10 to add BE basketball schools?

[MDZip]

I never said any of the moves were driven by basketball. I just stated that football wasn't the only thing that drives realignment.

And I'm not talking about leaving the MAC to join the Big East. I'm talking about the best of the MAC and the Big East merging. And yes, that would be a tremendous upgrade! Can you imagine having UConn and Cincy visiting the JAR for conference basketball game or UConn vs. Akron in soccer?!

If the Big-East non-FBS schools do break off from the rest of the Big East, that leaves UConn and UC floating untl the rest of the "Big East" football schools join. Since that makes a mockery of that league, the MAC ought to be proactive and extend an invitation to both as football only members for the MAC, and let them go off and join the the rest of the Big East for their other sports. UC is certainly in the MAC footprint and UConn would be a good partner with UMass. And then I'd go find one more to bring the league to 16. Temple, all is forgiven.

[GP1]

Big East Catholic schools wake up?

It's funny. I was thinking about this very issue the other night watching Nova vs. St. Joe's (great game buy the way). Anyhow, Nova and G'town stand a chance, but they shouldn't look to other Catholic schools as the saving grace (no pun intended). Nova and G'town have I-AA football programs. They should find their way to some sort of Missouri Valley Conference that has quality I-AA football and quality basketball. They aren't going to find anything as good as the BE is right now for basketball and they need to find the best place possible to land. Then again, the Big Ten did add Rutgers and Maryland so I guess if the addition of crap is good for a conference, then maybe they will add G'Town and Nova.

Right or wrong, Seton Hall, Providence and St. Johns are doomed to the trash heap of basketball history and should save themselves the time by going straight to DIII like the great women's program of Immaculata did years ago. I don't see how those schools compete in the future climate.

[GP1]

Those who live, breathe and die football, to whom every other sport is a casual distraction, never gave a crap about the Big East, anyway. It was always going to be irrelevant because it wasn't part of Big Football, and football-first folks could care less if it disappears.

They didn't, but they should have. At one time, the BE had Miami, BC, VA Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and WVU in it. It was a very good football conference and grossly underrated. Up until WVU left, it was a better conference than the ACC. Was it part of the old guard SEC, Big Ten, Pac Whatever? No, but it was just as good as at least one of those conferences.

[Zipmeister]

Even with football being as bad as it has been the past three seasons, I think we are still worthy to be included. Consider that we are the best in soccer and a national power, top-2 annually in basketball, MACC in tennis, nationally-ranked in rifle, and top of the league in track. Cross country, baseball, softball, golf, swimming, and WBB are all reasonably competitive. We have the best facilities in the MAC for most sports (not basketball or baseball), and a conference upgrade would likely only improve recruiting too.

Ah, now I see your point. I completely forgot about our rifle team. No wonder all the big time conferences are in a bidding war for us.

[akzipper]

Ah, now I see your point. I completely forgot about our rifle team. No wonder all the big time conferences are in a bidding war for us.

Didn't the Big Ten add Maryland and Rutgers just because of Rifle and Soccer?

[Hilltopper]

Didn't the Big Ten add Maryland and Rutgers just because of Rifle and Soccer?

They were desperate to add a team that might be able to beat us in those sports.

[Dave in Green]

The Big East situation highlights the problem of what can happen to a conference in which some schools place a higher value on basketball and others on football. The Big East was created in 1979 primarily as a basketball conference. Over the years it evolved into having a mix of schools with some more focused on football. The recent defections have been primarily based on football, but the football additions are all weaker in basketball than the schools that have left/are leaving. That puts the original basketball-first schools in a bad spot in terms of trying to maintain the quality of their basketball programs. With nearly three times as many schools having DI basketball as FBS football, there is obviously a place for what the Big East was originally envisioned to be -- a premier basketball conference for schools who either don't have football programs or have smaller football programs that are never expected to compete at a high level.

Sources: 7 leaning to leave Big East

[GP1]

The Big East situation highlights the problem of what can happen to a conference in which some schools place a higher value on basketball and others on football.

Or, no value in football vs some value in football. There is an opportunity here for some schools in the A-10 partnering with these BE Catholic schools to have their own league for basketball, and a solid league at that. I'm not going to name all of them, but there are some current A-10 members that are Catholic schools without football. Maybe something could happen between them.

This would leave Nova and Georgetown with interesting decisions. What to do about football? Nova has had good I-AA teams in recent years. Would that Catholic league be a good fit for them or would it allow them to just play basketball and play football in another league? Nova and Georgetown would have some interesting decisions to make. For the non-football schools, it is a no brainer and I think they could find a way to easily work this out.

The changes to the "big" conferences have seemed to settle out. I'm not sure if there are any more meaningful changes to be made to them. What about the "mid major" conferences with D-1 basketball and I-AA football. Could be some interesting changes at that level.

[UAZipster0305]

The changes to the "big" conferences have seemed to settle out. I'm not sure if there are any more meaningful changes to be made to them. What about the "mid major" conferences with D-1 basketball and I-AA football. Could be some interesting changes at that level.

I don't think the conference roulette will be totally settled until there are 4 or 5 super conferences with 16 members each. Hence, UC, UConn, UCF, and USF are ripe for the picking now, but they won't be in pergatory for very long.

[Zips Win!]

Then again, the Big Ten did add Rutgers and Maryland so I guess if the addition of crap is good for a conference, then maybe they will add G'Town and Nova.

STOP giving the medium ten any ideas!

Before you know it, they will elevate GTown and Nova to 1A and then add them to the conference.

More easy games for you know who!!

[Wally B]

Actually, a Big East collapse could potentially benefit d1a football and all non-aq programs in general.

- NCAA rules dictate that a school must have an invite from a d1a conference before making the jump from d1aa. This was designed to limit the number of schools making the jump. However, as the aq conferences expanded, many non-aq's simply scrounged up a few d1aa's to fill the void. Add to that the expansion of 8-12 team rosters to 12-14 (ney 16?) and d1a has grown from 106 in 1993, to 124 now. Even though that number continues to grow, it's been limited by the collapse of the WAC which eliminated a destination. Now imagine if the Big East/Cusa or some combination thereof follows suit.... It effectively reduces the availability of d1a slots again.

Why is this important? Well, as some have suggested, there could be a push by AQ's to break away. Yes, this is a concern, but imagine if there were an additional 32 spots made available by two conferences that had been effectively pillaged.. AFterall, just look at the make-up of the Sun-Belt after Cusa pillaged it. I'm not so sure if any of their programs have been d1a for atleast 15-20 years. Don't quote me on that, but I think it would be harder to build any sense of legitimacy without some form of history to back it up. Afterall, what do you call a conference entirely made up of d1aa teams (no flame intended towards aspiring programs)?

Back to the point at hand. If the BE does, in one form or another, collapse and the remnants join up with another conference; it would effectively cap the number of d1a teamsagain and appease the gods/naysayers to some degree. On the other hand, I can't imagine the big 4/5 conferences breaking off at this point for the simple fact that they need non-aq programs. Their fans would never accept the risk of playing 4 big games out of the gate every year. Hell, at this point cosces can get fired for going to a lower tiered bowl. Yes, as detestable and occasinally annoying as we are, they need us.

back to your regular programmng

[Wally B]

I don't think the conference roulette will be totally settled until there are 4 or 5 super conferences with 16 members each. Hence, UC, UConn, UCF, and USF are ripe for the picking now, but they won't be in pergatory for very long.

Actually, short of the collapse of the ACC, USF and UCF are sol so to speak. The SEC is out, and Florida State is not interested in sharing the ACC with either program. Actually they are hesitant to share it with Miami (FL) for that matter. The only way USF move in, is if FSU leaves, and UCONN is already in.

You have to feel for those old CUSA teams though don't you? I mean, UC had to point out that they finally made the big time and left all of us behind. They were BCS baby! Had a great year, rose to the top of the rankings, and nobody questioned their presence becasue they were in the BCS! Oh wait...... actually they did. Oh, and now, their AQ status has been revoked, and they didn't even have a say in it. Hmmmm I wonder how the recruits will look at that BWHAhahahahaha........ Pure Pwnage!

[GP1]

I don't think the conference roulette will be totally settled until there are 4 or 5 super conferences with 16 members each. Hence, UC, UConn, UCF, and USF are ripe for the picking now, but they won't be in pergatory for very long.

Long term, I think you are correct. However, I used the word "meaningful" changes in my post. UC, UCONN, UCF and USF are not meaningful changes to any conference.

I'm not interested in five super conferences. I'm interested in four. In fact, I'm interested in a division of about 65 teams functioning outside of the NCAA. The way things are going, I don't see it as a crazy notion. A lot of what is driving this is television revenue. Big Ten Network, ACC Network, SEC Network, Pac Whatever Network, etc. Scrap all of those rinky dink networks and bid out the division to the highest bidder. There is a mountain of money out there for this super division to make if they could just get their act together.

Business Week measured the amount of money the NFL brings in with NBC, ESPN, CBS and Direct TV at $6 Billion. It is currently estimated the Big Ten members will make $40 million per year with BTN. 65 teams at $6 billion is $92.3 million per school. How much then to show college basketball, etc. in addition to the $92.3 million? Don't think for a second, I'm the first person to run a calculator on those numbers. Don't think for a second either that university presidents and athletic directors have any shame or would stop this money train from backing up to their bank accounts.

[GP1]

I mean, UC had to point out that they finally made the big time and left all of us behind. They were BCS baby! Had a great year, rose to the top of the rankings, and nobody questioned their presence becasue they were in the BCS! Oh wait...... actually they did. Oh, and now, their AQ status has been revoked, and they didn't even have a say in it.

After the display Cincy put on in the Sugar Bowl a few years ago, they should keep quiet.

[UAZipster0305]

Long term, I think you are correct. However, I used the word "meaningful" changes in my post. UC, UCONN, UCF and USF are not meaningful changes to any conference.

UConn is on an entire different plane than the other three because of the strength of their basketball programs. They are primed for addition to a major conference. However, with the other three, it's all relative. Major additions to the ACC, SEC, Big 10, PAC 10, or Big 12? Definitely not, but if they replaced a couple of directional Michigans and Ball State in the MAC, it would be huge for the conference. It amazes me that no one else seems to be taking an interest in this potential.

[LZIp]

catholic schools apparently leaving big least

[Dave in Green]

SI has a lengthy story up with lots of details on money issues. Some interesting points include teams getting more money from their NCAA shares than from their conference TV contracts, and the fact that the teams that have been leaving the Big East on an individual basis do not get any of the shares. The shares money stays with the conference. But if the seven Catholic schools split, they get to move their earned NCAA shares over to their new conference because they fit the NCAA profile of a group of seven teams that have been playing together in a conference for more than five years.

As Big East Catholic schools prepare to break away, key issues emerge

[akzipper]

UConn is on an entire different plane than the other three because of the strength of their basketball programs. They are primed for addition to a major conference. However, with the other three, it's all relative. Major additions to the ACC, SEC, Big 10, PAC 10, or Big 12? Definitely not, but if they replaced a couple of directional Michigans and Ball State in the MAC, it would be huge for the conference. It amazes me that no one else seems to be taking an interest in this potential.

For some reason a lot of Zips have a very "high school" mentality when it comes to college athletics. The small stadiums/areas of the MAC, schools located VERY close to one another, and a regional conference that really is only centered in two states. Do we really need 6 schools in Ohio? I would definitely support some sort of BE-MAC merger. Maybe North and South divisions?

Akron, Cincinnati, Buffalo, Temple, Ohio, NIU, UMass, Toledo, USF, UCF, Houston, Memphis, SMU, Tulane, and ECU would make a very solid conference and cover a lot of the eastern US.

[GP1]

UConn is on an entire different plane than the other three because of the strength of their basketball programs. They are primed for addition to a major conference.

You are correct in that they are on a different plane. The problem is they are on a downward trajectory. In my opinion, uconn is primed to become umass with a better football program. uconn has had one great year in football. Other than that, they have gone to some pretty bad bowls. Before Jim Calhoun, uconn was a doormat. I predict after Calhoun, they will return to being a doormat. The glory days of uconn basketball may be in the rear view mirror. The reason everyone is not looking at uconn is because they know these things already. uconn will become a CUSA team unless the Big Ten feels the need to include another doormat in the Leaders or Legends Division (whichever OSU plays in).

UCONN has HUGE problems right now. I lived in Connecticut my first year out of school and really enjoyed UCONN sports. This makes me sad what is happening to them.

[Dave in Green]

Edging closer to reality.

Source: Schools debating how to go

[Zip Watcher]

You are correct in that they are on a different plane. The problem is they are on a downward trajectory. In my opinion, uconn is primed to become umass with a better football program. uconn has had one great year in football. Other than that, they have gone to some pretty bad bowls. Before Jim Calhoun, uconn was a doormat. I predict after Calhoun, they will return to being a doormat. The glory days of uconn basketball may be in the rear view mirror. The reason everyone is not looking at uconn is because they know these things already. uconn will become a CUSA team unless the Big Ten feels the need to include another doormat in the Leaders or Legends Division (whichever OSU plays in).

UCONN has HUGE problems right now. I lived in Connecticut my first year out of school and really enjoyed UCONN sports. This makes me sad what is happening to them.

That's a pretty apt description right about now.

I have to say I'm faced with really mixed emotions as this plays out. As a student of UConn in the early 90's, I got to enjoy some really exciting hoops .. even though Jimmy Calhoun hadn't quite figured things out yet. Ask me sometime how many UConn teams could beat the 94 team with Marshall and Ray Allen together. On the other hand, I LOVE good college hoops, and I think a high level CYO league like the one that's about to materialize will generate some great hoops. If they can somehow breathe life into DePaul .. it could be awesome. FWIW, I'd take Detroit Mercy in over Creighton, and maybe Duquesne also. They need to learn the lesson about spreading too thin .. and Providence to Omaha for a softball game is pretty darn far. Adding the Pittsburgh and Detroit markets seems better to me. Creighton might also be wise to stay as the big dog in the Valley.

But UConn made it's bed, or crapped in it's bed, about 10 years ago when they set into motion the move to 1-A football. It was a money chasing event .. it's probably been profitable for the past several years (not probably .. most definitely) .. and now it lands them in no man's land. There's an editorial in the Courant today which wraps up by saying (paraphrasing) .. "the Big East music has stopped, and only UConn is without a chair."

In the middle of my time there, I think in 92 or 93 .. there was a significant budget crisis in the University. It faced something like a $3-5 million shortfall unless significant restructuring was done. The administration floated the notion of eliminating the School of Allied Health, which I think was comprised of PT, OT and maybe one other. The logic, not entirely flawed, was that it was one of the more expensive departments on campus, due in part to a big expense:student ratio. The projected savings was close to what was needed.

The problem in most of our eyes, was that across campus was a football program that very few if anyone gave a crap about losing about $5million per year. The editorial board of the Daily Campus figured this out, and it was a hot topic. Now, this being just about when the internets were invented, I'm not sure what the methodology was at the time, but a poll of the undergraduate student body found that a majority preferred to end football before touching Allied Health. Long story short, they found the funds .. kept all programs.

I still think they should have killed football, or left it alone. If they left it alone, they'd still have been at the teat of the BCS money with the Big East, and now they'd be talking about 8 Big East teams moving forward without FB.

At the end of the day, even this Basketball Guy knows that FB rules the roost in the TV dollars. And as the stories GP1 has been sharing with us show .. the AD's & Presidents are going to chase dollars.

Whatever. Incredibly the MAC seems to strengthen its position just by standing still. If NIU can somehow keep it tight in Miami .. it will further do so. It needs to find its way back down to 12 teams I think.

Go Zips. Crush the Titans.

B) B)