Dave in Green Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 One last 3-point coulda-woulda-shoulda from me: The Zips are shooting 37.2% on 3-pointers for the season. If they shoot a slightly below average 36.4% today (8-22 instead of 5-22), they score 9 more points and win by 3 instead of losing by 6. When you miss a lot of open 3s, it's just plain poor shooting, not the other team's great defense. But that's the way it is with averages. Half of the time you're above average and half of the time you're below average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZipster0305 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 One last 3-point coulda-woulda-shoulda from me: The Zips are shooting 37.2% on 3-pointers for the season. If they shoot a slightly below average 36.4% today (8-22 instead of 5-22), they score 9 more points and win by 3 instead of losing by 6. When you miss a lot of open 3s, it's just plain poor shooting, not the other team's great defense. But that's the way it is with averages. Half of the time you're above average and half of the time you're below average. This statement is the essence of 95% of your posts, DiG. Prop Joe strikes again. (And I mean this in only the friendliest of ways.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 After watching the replays a few more times, one last rant on the phantom Zeke foul which was really a clean block: I've seen Zeke get angry before, mostly at himself for making a mistake. But I have never seen him as angry as he was at getting whistled for a foul he knew he didn't commit. Walsh was trying to calm him down, and Zeke tossed Walsh aside like a rag doll. Meanwhile, the ORU player who was allegedly fouled was smiling and laughing so hard at his undeserved good fortune that he almost fell over. That's a pretty big confidence builder when you can drive on the 10th best shot blocker in the country, get the ball cleanly stuffed down your gullet, and be rewarded with a pair of free throws by a ref who called something he didn't really see. Also, consider the circumstances. The Zips were trailing 28-13 with 4:43 left in the first half. The Zips went on a 9-point run to narrow the gap to 28-22. Zeke's block would have kept the Zips momentum going and they would have had a chance to narrow the gap even more in the final 1:14 of the first half. Instead, the refs took the Zips' momentum away and ORU got their momentum back and scored the last 3 points of the half to take a 9-point lead into halftime. Sure, there are missed calls on both teams in every game. Some are just more egregious than others and have bigger effects on game momentum. The refs should have more respect for the fact that the 10th best shot blocker in the country is capable of cleanly blocking shots. They should give Zeke the benefit of the doubt unless they clearly see physical contact. Even if the Zips had won, that call would have stuck in my craw because it's so typical of the way the refs disrespect his ability to cleanly block shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 The 3 point shooting was bad, but ORU was equally as terrible. Getting the crap beat out of us on the glass really sticks out at me as the culprit today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 This statement is the essence of 95% of your posts, DiG. Prop Joe strikes again. (And I mean this in only the friendliest of ways.) Yeah, the simple stuff is really the essence of 95% of life. Friendly character comparisons are always welcome. I've been associated with much worse characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZipster0305 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Yeah, the simple stuff is really the essence of 95% of life. Friendly character comparisons are always welcome. I've been associated with much worse characters. Kudos for being a good sport, but I was referring to you ALWAYS equally presenting both sides of everything. Fair analysis of the trends in today's game too. I didn't have to post because you already voiced (typed) many of my thoughts. I'll add that we got waxed on the boards today in spite of us having the size advantage and anticipating it as a relative strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoZips94 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I believe this was just a perfect storm for ORU. The Zips didn't have a shoot around last night, which lead to the poor shooting performance in my opinion. Having MAC refs is really a disadvantage for the Zips. Those things combined with some poor coaching lead to the loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Kudos for being a good sport, but I was referring to you ALWAYS equally presenting both sides of everything. Fair analysis of the trends in today's game too. I didn't have to post because you already voiced (typed) many of my thoughts. I'll add that we got waxed on the boards today in spite of us having the size advantage and anticipating it as a relative strength. Ah, got it. I was thinking more of the Proposition Joe character comparison. And I have to agree with you and others who point out that being outrebounded 37-24 is an even bigger discrepancy than the 3-point shooting. Break even with ORU on rebounds and the Zips win easily. The Zips are only 128th in the country in rebounding percentage (percentage of missed shots rebounded at both the offensive and defensive ends). They have only a slight edge over all their opponents to date, grabbing 50.8% of rebounds compared with 49.3% for their opponents. They can offset a rebound disadvantage to many opponents with other team strengths and still come out on top. But when you start playing the better teams in the country, lazy rebounding is not going to get the job done. I don't know how you solve that in the short time left before the tournament. Rebounding is part training and part attitude. Tree has it for sure. Walsh is one of the better rebounding guards in the country. The Serb can be good at times. Zeke is decent considering he's more focused on blocking and altering shots. But, as a team, the Zips are only in about the 33rd percentile for snagging rebounds. I don't know how far that gets you in the NCAA tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I should add that rebounding alone does not get the job done, either. The MAC team with the best rebounding percentage is Buffalo. In fact, they have the 27th best team rebounding percentage in the country. They grab 53.9% of all missed shots in their games compared with 46.1% for their opponents. But their overall record is not as good as the Zips, and they are two games behind the Zips in the MAC standings. Their overall game is not as good as the Zips. So while Zips fans might hope to see their team improve its rebounding, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that other areas of the Zips' overall game are pretty darned good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 A little bit about a lot from an ORU fan: • First off, congrats on a great season so far. Your guys played hard. • I've NEVER seen this year's version of the Zips play, but watching you today reminded me a LOT of our cross-town rival, the University of Tulsa: plenty enough talent, but WAY too many substitutions, too many different styles of play among the line-up combinations, causing the team to play in spurts, instead of with any consistent flow. Your coach needs to quit worrying about keeping everyone happy with playing time, settle on a 6-to-7 man rotation , and let those guys play together for longer stretches of time. If ORU had a kid like Marshall, he would never leave the floor unless he was in foul trouble - and he would touch the ball almost every possession. What a waste! • Two of those referees you guys recognized as "MAC refs" also call a lot of games in the Summit League (Bo Boroski and Mike Sanzere). Sanzere has screwed ORU over more times than I can count He's just a really terrible referee - misses a LOT of calls. • Marshall's block of Bell-Holter during your run was clean. But, to Bell-Holter's credit, he did "take it to" Marshall all night, and kept him on his heels defensively. I'm certain there were a couple of plays inside where Marshall did NOT get whistled for a foul, specifically during that same run, so it really does even out. • ORU out-rebounds everyone, and wins ugly, in the Sutton-family style. Everyone ORU beats leaves the floor scratching their heads, feeling like ORU simply isn't that good. It's just the way ORU plays - ugly, but efficient. • Your point guard (#11) is a warrior. I also really liked Treadwell. But do they ever run any plays for him? • The Zips 3-point shooting looked even worse from my seat in the fourth row. Their shots were off by a LOT. • And yes, ORU does not zone much, because there are so many great shooters in the Summit League, and they all torch zones. SIX of the top 20 scorers in the country play in the Summit. Gotta be honest with you guys, this version of the Zips would be just one of five teams fighting for the top in the Summit: South Dakota State, North Dakota State, and Oakland are on most nights just as good as ORU, and I'm not so sure SDSU isn't better than ORU - the two teams split in the regular season, and SDSU beat Buffalo today by 20 in their BracketBuster game. • Those of you watching at home missed an unfortunate play at the end of the game, as the ESPN cameras cut away from the final seconds on the floor to show the players and coaches shaking hands. Two of your guys ran up and double-teamed Morrison with about 2 seconds left as he was standing at half-court waiting for the clock to run out, slapped the ball from his hands, then launched a 3 at the buzzer for the final score. Is that something you guys have seen them do before, when your opponent is trying to show respect at the end of a game by not running up the score? Just sayin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Thanks for stopping by OT, always good to hear what the other side thinks. Your second bullet has been questioned by many Zip fans for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 For the next 10 minutes the Zips kept it close and appeared poised to make one of their patented spurts to take over the game. They couldn't quite get over the hump, but were still within 4 points with 1:53 left. Then they missed their next 4 shots -- all 3-pointers -- in a row. Good points. This is why playing from behind against talented, well coached teams presents problems. Most teams in the MAC are dying to blow a lead and thus the game. Good teams don't let others come from behind and basically blow the game. The Zips are going to win the MAC this year because that's what we do against our league. After that though, they had better start off faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 But that's the way it is with averages. Half of the time you're above average and half of the time you're below average. You may have to resign as our resident numbers guy after this statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyzip84 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 You may have to resign as our resident numbers guy after this statement. Good observation. The shooting percentages we discuss represent, in statistics terms, the mean or "average" in common terms. The statistics term for the value at which half the time one performs better and half the time one performs worse is the median. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 • If ORU had a kid like Marshall, he would never leave the floor unless he was in foul trouble - and he would touch the ball almost every possession. What a waste! • Those of you watching at home missed an unfortunate play at the end of the game, as the ESPN cameras cut away from the final seconds on the floor to show the players and coaches shaking hands. Two of your guys ran up and double-teamed Morrison with about 2 seconds left as he was standing at half-court waiting for the clock to run out, slapped the ball from his hands, then launched a 3 at the buzzer for the final score. Is that something you guys have seen them do before, when your opponent is trying to show respect at the end of a game by not running up the score? Just sayin'... To the first point - You are correct. Marshall should have played more minutes. He needs to use his 5 fouls every game where the opponent is high-quality. Either that, or we don't win. The Zips can get away with multiple substitutions against crappy MAC competition, but not against upper-tier competition. The Zips left several bullets in their gun when they left Tulsa last night. Because we substituted like we were playing EMU. Sorry about game's end. I'm guessing the Zips missed so many ill-advised 3's down the stretch that we felt the need to make one REALLY ill-advised 3 to compensate. Stupid play. Too bad Morrison graduates. I'd loved to have seen him at the JAR next season. Great game by ORU. You proved you're an NCAA tourney, at-large-quality team. And the Zips proved they're a-notch-below-at-large quality. Positives from the Bracket Buster - K.e.n.t. seems to also have an impressive win streak built upon cupcakes. They haven't gotten better, they've just played worse opponents. Gary Waters' hot air over CSU being at-large quality has officially turned ice cold. Boy is he a crappy February coach. Hopefully KD/McFadden don't schedule CSU for December in 2012. We need them in Feb 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 That's a pretty big confidence builder when you can drive on the 10th best shot blocker in the country, get the ball cleanly stuffed down your gullet, and be rewarded with a pair of free throws by a ref who called something he didn't really see. I've been saying this for years and I'll never back down. The refs can establish a psychology in the game early on simply by making one or two calls on each side under the basket. One team gets confident while one gets timid and fearful of fouling out. The stupid officiating in the first quarter of the game fits my belief in this perfectly. They don't need to blow the whistle all game. They simply need to set the tone and the pieces fall into place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Good observation. The shooting percentages we discuss represent, in statistics terms, the mean or "average" in common terms. The statistics term for the value at which half the time one performs better and half the time one performs worse is the median. Tough crowd! Regardless of what I intended to say, it was technically incorrect because I got lazy and left out a key adverb. Thanks for helping keep me on my toes. About half of the time you're above average and about half of the time you're below average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Why did Old Titans message get deleted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Doesn't appear there was anything wrong with the part of Old Titan's post that was quoted. Maybe OT posted something else that wasn't so nice and got banned. In any case, OT's second question deserves a response: I don't ever recall seeing a Zips player trying to steal the ball and score in the final few seconds when the game was out of reach and the other team was simply running out the clock. It makes me wonder if something else was going on. Could an ORU player have done something disrespectful to cause a couple of Zips players to react? Could there have been a little taunting going on? I see in the play-by-play that Morrison grabbed a defensive rebound with 35 seconds left and Abreu scored a 3-pointer with 2 seconds left. The play-by-play doesn't show a steal or turnover, which should have been recorded in the official scoring if it happened. Hard to say what really happened there with no video to review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Morrison gave Walsh a pretty good shove when he got a rebound with about 20 seconds left. That is definitely was irritated our guys. Walsh followed him down the court and stole it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDZip Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Why did Old Titans message get deleted? Doubt it was deleted. New members sometimes take a little while to get posted and so only the mods can see the posts initially. If you noticed, the only respondents to OT were moderators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Doubt it was deleted. New members sometimes take a little while to get posted and so only the mods can see the posts initially. If you noticed, the only respondents to OT were moderators. Makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 An embedded function of the board is a delay of new posters responses until they have 5 posts. We approved the guy's post for viewing, but there is an inherent delay before it becomes visible to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrt Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 We beat ORU last year with a lesser talented AKRON team. This year we have more talent and more EGO CLEARLY. Some players are more concerned with individual stats. This will be the Zips downfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I saw the last play that OT mentioned. There was some jawing going on at the end...nothing to write home about, but that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is basketball teams now want to start shaking hands before the game is over like football teams do. Personally, I don't like it because basketball rules and the way the game is played doesn't lend itself to this. If they want to shake hands early, don't shake the hand of the guy with the ball. Better yet, wait until the clock is a zero to shake hands....normally, it is only about a ten second wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.