The Dreaded Red Shirt

[GoZips]

The dreaded Red Shirt decision time draws near.

Since Akron is deep with returning players in its rotation there are few (if any) minutes available to the Freshmen. Except,

of course, in the paint when Isaiah Johnson looks to be Pat Forsythe's companion.

The other three Freshmen, Aaron Jackson, BJ Gladden. and Kwan Cheatam face the real possibility of sitting out a season.

Each one has a good skill set, though not complete. Plus, each is likely to be looking up through a two deep depth chart

at their respective position.

Two factors to consider. One, how healthy is Jake Kretzer's back? Second, what if neither Carmelo or Nyles are effective?

So, who escapes the red shirt tag? Personally, I think all three will be red shirted. What is your view and the rationale for

your opinion?

[akronzips71]

It's a good problem to have.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Second, what if neither Carmelo or Nyles are effective?

If these guys both turn out to be Blake Justice Part II, it will be a big problem.

We need a real D1 point guard if we are going to achieve anything beyond our annual run through the MAC, then one-n-done in a tourney. Hope one emerges. I bet KD does too.

[Warriors4life]

The dreaded Red Shirt decision time draws near.

Since Akron is deep with returning players in its rotation there are few (if any) minutes available to the Freshmen. Except,

of course, in the paint when Isaiah Johnson looks to be Pat Forsythe's companion.

The other three Freshmen, Aaron Jackson, BJ Gladden. and Kwan Cheatam face the real possibility of sitting out a season.

Each one has a good skill set, though not complete. Plus, each is likely to be looking up through a two deep depth chart

at their respective position.

Two factors to consider. One, how healthy is Jake Kretzer's back? Second, what if neither Carmelo or Nyles are effective?

So, who escapes the red shirt tag? Personally, I think all three will be red shirted. What is your view and the rationale for

your opinion?

I really can't see Kwan Cheatham getting a redshirt. He's 6'9 and very talent..he can surely help Big Dog and Pat out at 5 position. He can also play at the 4 postion. I know there will a need for him and reshirting doesn't seem be an option for him. Especially since Coach D wants to go BIG Pat is 6'11, Big Dog 6"10 and Kwan is 6'9 1/2 that's a big front court. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Dave in Green]

Big Dog and the Three Question Marks. Sounds like a good name for a '60s rock group. Let's try applying a little logic. With Big Dog playing, the Zips frontcourt is pretty solid and deep, which suggests that there wouldn't be much PT available for Kwan as long as Jake's back improves. Whether or not Kwan plays this season, his size, ball handling and outside shooting make him a heck of a unique weapon who's going to have a positive impact on the Zips over the next few seasons.

In the backcourt, earlier thinking was that Q would be the starting 2 with Reggie backing him. More recent thinking has been that if Nyles and Melo are slow to get up to speed at PG, Q might get more time at PG, possibly even starting. That would move Reggie to the starting 2 and open up a need for a backup 2. Depending on how Deji fits in, that could open up a need for one of the freshman wings (BJ or Aaron) to possibly get some minutes. My observations on those two are that Aaron has an incredible motor while BJ may have a slightly more polished overall game. Slight advantage to BJ.

Looking to next season, the only graduating senior who will need to be replaced in the lineup is Q. That also points to giving one of the freshman wings some game experience this season, and I think the odds favor BJ. But AFAIK the situation at PG and with Jake's back is still too fluid for a final decision to be made. I think Coach Dambrot hedges his bets by starting the season with Kwan, BJ and Aaron all redshirting, while holding out the possibility of burning 1 or 2 redshirts sometime after the first few games depending on other player developments.

[zipdiehard]

As someone mentioned in another thread, Coach commented on Joe's show that the two freshmen bigs were going to see minutes this year. We will just have to wait and see what actually happens.

[Dave in Green]

@zipdiehard, I think you may have misinterpreted. What Coach Dambrot has said is that the two centers (Pat and Big Dog) would see minutes this season.

[Valpo Zip]

I love three things about this thread:

1 - CK's statement that we should go "beyond our annual run through the MAC, then one-n-done in a tourney." while 10 years ago, making the tourney was a pipe dream.

2 - We graduated 4 seniors last year and we're still too deep and we're talking about redshirting 3 talented players

3 - Only 1 senior graduates at the end of this year.

I think that these 3 reasons explain why I can't wait to watch this team play.

[Z.I.P.]

The dreaded Red Shirt decision time draws near.

Since Akron is deep with returning players in its rotation there are few (if any) minutes available to the Freshmen. Except,

of course, in the paint when Isaiah Johnson looks to be Pat Forsythe's companion.

The other three Freshmen, Aaron Jackson, BJ Gladden. and Kwan Cheatam face the real possibility of sitting out a season.

Each one has a good skill set, though not complete. Plus, each is likely to be looking up through a two deep depth chart

at their respective position.

Two factors to consider. One, how healthy is Jake Kretzer's back? Second, what if neither Carmelo or Nyles are effective?

So, who escapes the red shirt tag? Personally, I think all three will be red shirted. What is your view and the rationale for

your opinion?

Okay, I thought I knew all of GoZips designations and determinations of acceptable roster assignments. Now he throws me for a loop. Who is this newest member of the team, this "Isaiah Johnson" character? Will he squeeze Big Dog out of his position? What's do they say about enquiring minds...?

[Derrt]

Who is this newest member of the team, this "Isaiah Johnson" character? Will he squeeze Big Dog out of his position? What's do they say about enquiring minds...?

[Zipmeister]

Okay, I thought I knew all of GoZips designations and determinations of acceptable roster assignments. Now he throws me for a loop. Who is this newest member of the team, this "Isaiah Johnson" character? Will he squeeze Big Dog out of his position? What's do they say about enquiring minds...?

I think they say enquiring minds want too no.

[zippy5]

I really can't see Kwan Cheatham getting a redshirt. He's 6'9 and very talent..he can surely help Big Dog and Pat out at 5 position. He can also play at the 4 postion. I know there will a need for him and reshirting doesn't seem be an option for him. Especially since Coach D wants to go BIG Pat is 6'11, Big Dog 6"10 and Kwan is 6'9 1/2 that's a big front court. It will be interesting to see what happens.

I don't think he should redshirt either. If he grew a half inch during your post, he should dominate by March.

[akronzips71]

I don't think he should redshirt either. If he grew a half inch during your post, he should dominate by March.

He may be taller than Zeke by March.

[Dave in Green]

@KC4three, you must be a family member or close friend of Kwan. I just want to tell you that I'm really impressed with Kwan's overall performance in Zips scrimmages. He is more advanced and aggressive in his play than I had expected. While his outside shooting and ball handling are impressive for a big, the thing that surprised me most is the way he goes after rebounds. He's a true cross between a 3 and a 4, which is a rare combination. I don't doubt that Kwan could challenge for playing time this season. I'm sure that Coach Dambrot will do what he believes is best for both Kwan and the team.

[Quickzips]

I know all of these guys want to play immediately, but as a team and as individuals everyone has to think big picture. Is it worth it to burn these guys redshirts if they are only going to play 5 minutes a night? Probably not. I don't want to see us burn the redshirt on a guy like Gladden or Kwan only to watch them get a couple of sporadic minutes here and there and more or less waste a year of eligibility. I would much rather see them sit on the bench and learn for a year and have that fifth year back later on down the road when more minutes are available.

[2Ball]

If these guys both turn out to be Blake Justice Part II, it will be a big problem.

We need a real D1 point guard if we are going to achieve anything beyond our annual run through the MAC, then one-n-done in a tourney. Hope one emerges. I bet KD does too.

Didn't GoZips say when Blake Justice was here, he would be in the rotation?

[akronzips71]

I know all of these guys want to play immediately, but as a team and as individuals everyone has to think big picture. Is it worth it to burn these guys redshirts if they are only going to play 5 minutes a night? Probably not. I don't want to see us burn the redshirt on a guy like Gladden or Kwan only to watch them get a couple of sporadic minutes here and there and more or less waste a year of eligibility. I would much rather see them sit on the bench and learn for a year and have that fifth year back later on down the road when more minutes are available.

The danger with keeping a player on the bench all season is you could lose him to a transfer.

OTOH, I know Coach will do anything and everything to win and get to the next level.

The OTHER thing about "red shirting" is that you are looking five years into the future, maybe not such a great idea.

IF we keep winning we WILL get good recruits and good results. We need roster space for them.

From what some of you guys are saying, it looks like we got a bumper crop. More will be known after a couple of games.

[Dave in Green]

Didn't GoZips say when Blake Justice was here, he would be in the rotation?

My best recollection is that GoZips was impressed with Justice's 3-point shooting, but correctly predicted he'd be a redshirt because he didn't have a complete game, i.e. defense, etc. I'm sure that GoZips will correct me if I'm wrong.

[UAZip0510]

I may be in the minority here, but I'd prefer one of Cheatham/Gladden/Jackson getting minutes over Deji.

1st Unit

Forsythe

Treadwell

Harney

Diggs

Evans

2nd Unit

Johnson

Kretzer

McAdams

Gladden or Jackson

Betancourt

OR

Johnson

Cheatham

Kretzer

McAdams

Betancourt

[akronzips71]

I may be in the minority here, but I'd prefer one of Cheatham/Gladden/Jackson getting minutes over Deji.

1st Unit

Forsythe

Treadwell

Harney

Diggs

Evans

2nd Unit

Johnson

Kretzer

McAdams

Gladden or Jackson

Betancourt

OR

Johnson

Cheatham

Kretzer

McAdams

Betancourt

I agree but from the early reports, it may not be easy keeping Big Dog off the floor.

[wadszip]

Here are some of my thoughts (though I haven't seen any of the practices, or won't be able to make it to the game Friday). But basing it off of what is coming back, and what each accomplished in HS, here is how I see it:

The Big Dog (can I vote to have "The" added to the front of Johnson's nickname ... when I hear "Big Dog" I think of Glenn Robinson. When I hear "The Big Dog" I think of Johnson.) No way he redshirts. The Zips need his size and girth down low with the loss of Zeke. D1 All-Ohio, Cincinnati Enquirer POY, yeah, he's ready. Hopefully, Pat beats him out as the starter, because that will be more proof that this program is on the verge of taking that next step, because both have tremendous talent.

Cheatham: Hopefully, he gets some minutes early on (including heavy minutes Friday) to see exactly what we have this year. However, even if he "has" to take a redshirt year, it would be nothing like a Blake Justice, Michael Green, Dakota Euton, etc. situation. Cheatham is a legit talent. So, even with a redshirt, it says more about what this team has than it says what Cheatham doesn't have. For me, seeing that he is a kid that jumped up from 6-3 to 6-9 in high school, he's the ideal project. Even if he can handle quality MAC minutes, with the likes of Tree/Harney/Kretzer/McAdams/Diggs who are all capable of playing either the 3 or 4, it may better serve the team and Cheatham, by letting him develop for another year. He's the type of player, IMO, who will benefit from a RS, since he can develop into something truly special.

Jackson/Gladden: One of the two will have to RS (again, it shows more of what this team has than what either doesn't.) There is no other team in the MAC that could afford to think about redshirting either. But on this team, there are only so minutes to go around. Like Cheatham, I hope both players get a shot Friday to play some big minutes (and even against Coastal Carolina), to get an evaluation to see which one is more ready this year. Quality depth is quality depth. And if this team wants to be a player in the tournament, one of the two probably finds a role, even if it is 5 minutes a game. This Akron team has enough parts that can be moved around where 5-10 quality minutes can be carved out for one of them (or even Cheatham).

Bottom line, this program is at the point where it has to focus on the upcoming year. All four of the freshman can play a role, but not all four have to play a role. All are talented enough that even with a redshirt, and they want to stick it out, the Zips are going to continue to win with or without them. If somebody wants to transfer, though, there is so much talent in the Cleveland-Akron area coming up, and KD's program is at the point where he will land some of that talent (the 15 and 16 classes in this area seriously can go head-to-head with anybody in the country ... Chicago, Detroit, NY, LA, Atlanta, etc. It's that good.) Win the next couple of years and KD will be able to sell staying home to these kids ... and he already did that with Joshua Williams.

Really, the program has never been stronger. It's a testament to what KD has done recruiting (and being open enough to go after some high upside chances ... Tree, Harney, etc). When they pan out, it leads to the recruiting class like we just saw this past year. If minutes are there, fine. You'll play. If minutes aren't there, hopefully the players realize they are good enough where those minutes will come down the road. If they want to transfer out, fine. We'll bring somebody in to replace you. That's the mark of great program, and something no other MAC program (and a only a few mid-majors in general) are in a position to be in.

It's funny, I've been reading (and posting to) the MAC BBS board more often. Most of the other MAC schools are expecting their incoming transfers/freshman to be program changers (even Ohio ala Beans Willis, who I'm not particularly high on). At Akron, it's at the level where whatever these guys bring is just gravy (outside of PG this year). Though with Betancourt, Evans and possibly Diggs, the Zips are still sitting pretty nice unless both Betancourt and Evans flame out.

[GoZips]

Didn't GoZips say when Blake Justice was here, he would be in the rotation?

Never made any such comment. Show cause. If you find any such remark from me I will add a retraction to my long list

of "to do"s. Most recent of which is KD charged me with ten push ups for a clock/horn malfunction I was responsible for.

[MDZip]

Most recent of which is KD charged me with ten push ups for a clock/horn malfunction I was responsible for.

Did you do them?

[Blue & Gold]

I'm hoping, for their own sakes, we're able to redshirt BJ, AJ & Cheatham (who just turned 18). Give them a pressure-free year to mature, watch, learn & develop. It's a luxurious position to be able to redshirt very real talent. We're there.

Winning is primary, but if we're able to avoid wasting a redshirt year for nothing but 5-minutes a game I think we should.

[akzipper]

Just don't get the hype around Johnson. He's just too slow. Personally feel like he should get the RS. Yes it's good to have size, but so did some pre-Zeke centers. Bardo and Swiech?

I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see.