Jekyl and Hyde

[Quickzips]

Not really sure what to think about that performance. When the Zips looked good they looked really go. When they looked bad they looked pretty bad.

The big 3 had decent games, but not great. Tree seemed to struggle with the double teams that Coastal threw at him at times. Diggs had his moments, but he also had 6 turnovers. Harney just never really seemed to find his shot.

One thing that is really clear. We have no PG. Melo hasn't improved much from a year ago. Q is a secondary ball-handler who can run the point at times, but should by no means be relied upon to play 20-30 minutes a night at PG. Evans might be our best option right now, but he doesn't have the play making ability that you want out of your point.

KD has to put the leash on Harney with the three pointers. There is no reason for a guy who struggles to shoot 30% from beyond the arch to be taking all those threes. 15 feet and in Nick. 15 feet and in.

Pat Forsythe has to learn he isn't Zeke. He showed a few good things tonight, but far too often he was going for the shot-block and getting himself out of position for the rebound. You can get away with that when you are an elite shot-blocker like Zeke was. Pat is not Zeke. He needs to hold his ground and box out for the rebound.

Deji Ibitayo needs to saddle himself to the bench and not come off it. Every time he came in tonight the energy of the whole team immediately died. He just isn't a DI player. I would much rather see Aaron Jackson get those minutes.

Why are we burning Kwan's redshirt to only get him 20 seconds of playing time? I imagine the plan was to get him more minutes if we got a big lead, but I hope we aren't going to burn the redshirt on this kid just to play him 3-5 minutes a night.

Kretzer and McAdams both had nice nights off the bench. We are going to need both of those guys this year with all of the guys we have that can attack the rim there are going to be a lot of open shots for Jake and Reggie.

[72 Roo]

My biggest disappointment was Harney. I was hoping his game would grow with maturity and he would think team first rather than himself first. That was not the case. His shot selection was reflective of a guy who is selfish. He forced things off the dribble to the basket, many times losing the ball as he jumped in the air and had no one to dish off to. He dribbles too much under pressure and doesn't seem to realize that if he is double or triple teamed some teammate is wide open. Find him. Harney can make the big shot but he looses much in defense, rebounding, and turnovers.

Besides that I love the guy

Most of all, though, we need a point guard.

[Dave in Green]

@Quickzips, good summary. Conditioning obviously played a big role in some of the performances. Q played 31 minutes of flat-out effort in his first real game back after a year off, and he was absolutely gassed at the end. It will take him time to get back into game shape. Nyles appeared to run low on gas pretty quickly, so I'm not sure that he was ready for the transition from JC to D1. It took him awhile to start adjusting to the speed of the D1 game, but he did show some potential on offense, though not so much on defense. Melo appears to be in better physical shape, but was not brilliant on offense.

As you said about Pat, he was more effective overall than last week, but trying to swat away too many shots and missing most of them. While he had two blocks, he just needs to learn to be more selective in which ones he leaps into space for and which to position for the rebound instead. I do feel a little better about the center position after watching Pat play a full 28 minutes tonight. He just needs to keep improving. If Pat focuses more on rebounds, the Zips do much better than outrebounding a 3-guard team by just a single rebound.

Tree played 35 minutes, which I don't think was in the game plan but turned out to be necessary because the Zips couldn't put CC away. He was trying to take over the game but his shots weren't falling. His 8 rebounds led the Zips, but were a bit lower than expected for Tree in 35 minutes. Harney was 9-10 from the field last week against midgets but had trouble with the swarming CC defense tonight. Overall the Zips would have done better with trying a little harder to find the open man. Speaking of open men, Jake and Reggie saved the day by knocking down their open shots.

By the end of the season I expect that Kwan and Big Dog will be producing quality minutes off the bench to give the frontcourt starters more relief. But the backcourt is looking a little thin right now and in real need of a primary PG stepping up and taking over.

[phil]

Good things!

Our press looked was very good and created lots of turnovers. We did resemble VCU for short spurts. We played with great hussle at times diving for loose balls.

Q is playing at another level. I thought he played great defense. He was the best of the point guards but tried to do much when they pressed and started to turn the ball over. We need to work on breaking the press with quick passes instead of trying to dribble throught the press. It was ugly at the end.

Forsythe looked good for the first time in a long time. He played with energy and came up with some nice rebounds. He had a couple nice moves. I like how he tried to block some shots and I thought that he helped clog the middle like Zeke. I hope he can keep it up.

Kretzer and McAdams played well. I especially like how McAdams hit the boards. Tree always plays well

Bad things

Carmelo did not have a good game. 4 turnovers in 15 minutes. 2 of the turnovers were unforced errors that were simply bad passes. The offense seemed to slow to a crawl in the 2nd half when he was out there. One time he drove to the basket and had nowhere to throw the ball. How many times did we see that last year. I noticed that when Evans fouled out, Keith did not bring in Carmelo. He needs to work on not turning the ball over.

Our inbound plays still need work

Only 10 assist against 17 turnovers will not win games against good teams.

57% from the line. Why can't we learn to shoot foul shots?

[akronzips71]

When I saw the title of the thread I thought it was about Harney.

At times he was brilliant, then at other times he was out of control.

Kwan went in expressly to burn the shirt. It was a message to someone. Maybe DIG?

Pat played better than usual. Tree is Superman. Wish we had Q last year.

Remember when we advertised in the newspapers for a quarterback? We may be doing that for a PG this year.

KD better save a slot or two for a quality PG.

[zippy5]

Is Big Dog hurt? Surely someone that hyped up didn't get 0 minutes on opening night. Right?

[Dr Z]

Is Big Dog hurt? Surely someone that hyped up didn't get 0 minutes on opening night. Right?

From today's PD:

"We need to play the young big kids,'' Dambrot said. "But I decided before the game I was going to use my older big guys. to make sure we got a win, because (in the past) we've lost so many games early in the season, and I was getting sick of it."

[Hilltopper]

From today's PD:

"We need to play the young big kids,'' Dambrot said. "But I decided before the game I was going to use my older big guys. to make sure we got a win, because (in the past) we've lost so many games early in the season, and I was getting sick of it."

http://zipsnation.org/forums//index.php?s=...st&p=212393

[GoZips]

QUOTE(zippy5 @ Nov 9 2013, 12:34 AM) *

Is Big Dog hurt? Surely someone that hyped up didn't get 0 minutes on opening night. Right?

From today's PD:

"We need to play the young big kids,'' Dambrot said. "But I decided before the game I was going to use my older big guys. to make sure we got a win, because (in the past) we've lost so many games early in the season, and I was getting sick of it."

Expect that both Cheatam and Johnson will not be red shirted. Neither played in the second half as Coach wanted a victory

more than unveiling the red shirts.

Kwan was disappointing in his first real time experience and was quickly yanked. If the score had permitted it, both

Freshmen would have seen the floor in the second half. I got this evaluation from a coach.

Actually all four Freshmen are fairly close in abilities. All could contribute this season. Then, of course, there would be a

huge logjam. I realize that most of the posters believe they are far more knowledgeable and better equipped to evaluate

the Freshmen than the coaches are.

[zippy5]

I guess I don't get it. We were up 32-13 at one point. If we can't get them minutes in a game like that, when are they going to get minutes?

[LZIp]

I guess I don't get it. We were up 32-13 at one point. If we can't get them minutes in a game like that, when are they going to get minutes?

this. Seemed like we were up by ~20 the majority of the game, and even with the comeback at the end, the game was never really in doubt.

[Dave in Green]

... Kwan went in expressly to burn the shirt. It was a message to someone. Maybe DIG? ...

No question that Coach Dambrot only put Kwan in the game to thumb his nose at me and the few other disbelievers in Zips world. Coach is obviously still stuck on last season's marketing theme of Think Bigger. Kwan just keeps growing Bigger and Bigger every week.

Now Kwan has to step up and prove that Coach Dambrot's faith in him to catch on quickly and produce quality minutes by the end of the season is not misplaced. As impressed with Kwan's upside as I've been from watching him scrimmage, he now has to quickly catch on to D1 college defense. I suspect that when he gets more than a minute in a game that we'll see some of the problems that Nyles had on defense in his first D1 game. Best case scenario is that Kwan has the longterm potential to rebound like Tree, drive the basket like Nick and shoot 3s like Reggie and Jake. The biggest question is who will he defend like? The grand experiment is on.

[skip-zip]

1) Kwan's redshirt wasn't "burned". We will need him this year. Isn't that obvious? We'll likely still be getting limited production from Pat F. in the paint, and we can't expect Tree to carry what would be a very, very heavy load.

2) I'll join those who STILL wonder what may have happened last year with Quincy. A great season may have turned into something truly magical. Forget about his offensive talents and his ability to drive from the perimeter to the rim for a second. His greatest value to us might very well be his ability to get after people on the defensive end. I just hope his mistakes last night were due to him being anxious to play and having some rust.

3) To answer the PG question, look who was in the game at the very end, when we were trying to manage the last few minutes. It was Evans. So, it would appear to me that he may be the front runner to get the most minutes at the point.

4) I have a strange feeling that Kretzer could have a really big year.

[LZIp]

2) I'll join those who STILL wonder what may have happened last year with Quincy.

We would have lost by 30 to VCU rather than 46?

[GoZips]

1) Kwan's redshirt wasn't "burned". We will need him this year. Isn't that obvious? We'll likely still be getting limited production from Pat F. in the paint, and we can't expect Tree to carry what would be a very, very heavy load.

2) I'll join those who STILL wonder what may have happened last year with Quincy. A great season may have turned into something truly magical. Forget about his offensive talents and his ability to drive from the perimeter to the rim for a second. His greatest value to us might very well be his ability to get after people on the defensive end. I just hope his mistakes last night were due to him being anxious to play and having some rust.

3) To answer the PG question, look who was in the game at the very end, when we were trying to manage the last few minutes. It was Evans. So, it would appear to me that he may be the front runner to get the most minutes at the point.

4) I have a strange feeling that Kretzer could have a really big year.

Look, I do not desire to offend you. That said, just where on a depth chart would you classify Cheatam? Twelfth of thirteenth?

Kwan is going to see limited minutes most of the time. You badly under estimate Pat Forsythe. Pat had a pretty darn

good game against Coastal. Tree is not alone in the front court.

As for last year; its gone; kaput; done; fini. Let's concentrate on the potential of this really good edition of the Zips.

Evans was not on the floor at the end of the game. Nyles fouled out. We are still hurting at the point. We will get by.

Best point you made. Jake Kretzer, if healthy, will take the Zips a long way. Cheatam is more insurance regarding Jake

than he is for Forsythe. To be that insurance KC has to come up to speed. Kwan will get it done given the experience.

[Dave in Green]

Assuming that BJ and Aaron redshirt, adding Kwan and Big Dog to the mix gives the Zips 11 scholarship players vying for PT -- 8 with D1 experience, 1 with JC experience and 2 true freshmen. Presumably Big Dog and Kwan will start off vying for 10th and 11th on the depth chart. How long they remain at the bottom depends on their progress. It's hard to see them getting thrown into the fire in the next two really tough games on the road against Saint Mary's and Middle Tennessee. By the end of the season the regular rotation should consist of a minimum of 8 players with 9 realistic and 10 possible. Should make for lively ongoing discussion here as various fans promote the merits of their favorites.

[Balsy]

We would have lost by 30 to VCU rather than 46?

We would have beaten Costal last year...and Oklahoma State...and Detroit...giving us a better tournament draw. Oh, and probably beaten Buffalo too.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Oh, and probably beaten Buffalo too.

We never win at Buffalo.

[skip-zip]

We would have lost by 30 to VCU rather than 46?

Short memory?

A suspended starting point guard, another guard out with back problems, and two guys with the flu?

If you truly think that VCU is 46 points better than us, that's your choice. But, you obviously missed the Overtime game at the JAR.

[LZIp]

Short memory?

A suspended starting point guard, another guard out with back problems, and two guys with the flu?

If you truly think that VCU is 46 points better than us, that's your choice. But, you obviously missed the Overtime game at the JAR.

Quincy Diggs playing last year would not have prevented our starting PG from getting caught trafficking marijuana, solve the guard's back problems, nor stop the other guys from getting the flu.

I stand by my post, VCU may have only beaten us by 30, rather than 46 with Diggs.

[skip-zip]

Look, I do not desire to offend you. That said, just where on a depth chart would you classify Cheatam? Twelfth of thirteenth?

Kwan is going to see limited minutes most of the time. You badly under estimate Pat Forsythe. Pat had a pretty darn

good game against Coastal. Tree is not alone in the front court.

As for last year; its gone; kaput; done; fini. Let's concentrate on the potential of this really good edition of the Zips.

Evans was not on the floor at the end of the game. Nyles fouled out. We are still hurting at the point. We will get by.

Best point you made. Jake Kretzer, if healthy, will take the Zips a long way. Cheatam is more insurance regarding Jake

than he is for Forsythe. To be that insurance KC has to come up to speed. Kwan will get it done given the experience.

Why would you be offending me by interjecting your opinion?

But your memory of the last minutes of that game must be foggy, concerning Evans. He didn't foul out until there were a few seconds left in the game. He was running the point from about the 4 or 5 minute mark until that time. That possibly tells me something about the future, when I see a coach trying to hang onto a single-digit lead, and is putting his trust in a brand new JC transfer point guard in the closing minutes, rather than the more experienced Betancourt.

[Dave in Green]

There's a good reason why Coach Dambrot put Nyles into the game to run the point for the crucial final 5 minutes. Up until then, Nyles and Melo had each run the point for about 15 minutes, with Melo having 4 turnovers and Nyles 0. When you're nursing a narrow lead at the end of a game, turnovers are a killer. Nyles did have 1 turnover in those final 5 minutes, but that was under intense pressure from a desperate CC. Nyles having just 1 turnover in 20 minutes of play in his first D1 game may be the single most promising event of this game. If Nyles can maintain that level of ball protection while improving other areas of his game (like defense), he's going to get a lot of minutes at the point.

[Hilltopper]

There's a good reason why Coach Dambrot put Nyles into the game to run the point for the crucial final 5 minutes. Up until then, Nyles and Melo had each run the point for about 15 minutes, with Melo having 4 turnovers and Nyles 0. When you're nursing a narrow lead at the end of a game, turnovers are a killer. Nyles did have 1 turnover in those final 5 minutes, but that was under intense pressure from a desperate CC. Nyles having just 1 turnover in 20 minutes of play in his first D1 game may be the single most promising event of this game. If Nyles can maintain that level of ball protection while improving other areas of his game (like defense), he's going to get a lot of minutes at the point.

He did have only one turnover, but he allowed himself to be trapped in the corner on the inbounds play at least once and maybe twice requiring the use of a time out. I do agree that he is hopefully the long term answer at that position. I have confidence that KD can work with him to make better decisions with the ball.

[LZIp]

I think it is apparent who is the future at PG, and in my mind, its Evans. Doesnt seem like Melo brings much to the table besides solid defense.

[skip-zip]

There's a good reason why Coach Dambrot put Nyles into the game to run the point for the crucial final 5 minutes. Up until then, Nyles and Melo had each run the point for about 15 minutes, with Melo having 4 turnovers and Nyles 0. When you're nursing a narrow lead at the end of a game, turnovers are a killer. Nyles did have 1 turnover in those final 5 minutes, but that was under intense pressure from a desperate CC. Nyles having just 1 turnover in 20 minutes of play in his first D1 game may be the single most promising event of this game. If Nyles can maintain that level of ball protection while improving other areas of his game (like defense), he's going to get a lot of minutes at the point.

How do you know that this was the reason why he did this?