ZachTheZip Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, lilroodude said: Didn't he beat Georgetown in the First Round 2 years prior to their Sweet Sixteen run? I'd say that's hardly "lightning in a bottle" if he had NCAAT success in his 2 appearances, not to mention the recruiting success he was about to have before leaving for Illinois. He did that with the previous coach's players. Just like he win in the NCAAT at Illinois in his first year and went downhill from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkwgriswold Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, skip-zip said: Man. Ok, I don't like the guy. I guess I'll have to learn to like him. But.....Can we all please quit with all of these things that he's going to do? Suddenly we're upsetting a top seed and going to the Sweet 16 in the next couple of years. On the flip side, I don't think he's going to completely suck, as some people are suggesting either. But I will say that he has something to prove to me with barely a .500 record his last stint in the MAC. Pretty well sums it up. If he wins 20 plus, I'll still find a reason to bitch like a lack of zone and no out of bounds plays. If he wins, I'll find his sideline antics to be "fighting for the team." He's our's now, might as well support him and hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted April 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 I'm not counting any chickens until they're hatched. Haven't seen anything that says its a done deal yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoZips94 Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ZachTheZip said: He did that with the previous coach's players. Just like he win in the NCAAT at Illinois in his first year and went downhill from there. So he took Tim O'Shea's players and got them to win a NCAAT game over Georgetown? That's a Helluva feat. Then took his own players and went to the Sweet Sixteen two years later. Edited April 4, 2017 by lilroodude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWAkron Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, skip-zip said: Man. Ok, I don't like the guy. I guess I'll have to learn to like him. But.....Can we all please quit with all of these things that he's going to do? Suddenly we're upsetting a top seed and going to the Sweet 16 in the next couple of years. On the flip side, I don't think he's going to completely suck, as some people are suggesting either. But I will say that he has something to prove to me with barely a .500 conference record his last stint in the MAC. Fair enough. I think we all go into this with eyes wide open. Jamion Christian would have been a fascinating hire, but Groce is a more known commodity for better or worse. And I'm looking forward to some sideline antics and ridding our program of the faux sincerity and the whining about how we don't get respect we deserve. Go out and earn it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) I don't feel strongly one way or the other. I can see both sides of the story. I just like the Zips are still financially invested to want to continue and build on the success that Dambrot brought. How this hire works out we'll have to wait and see. Edited April 4, 2017 by kreed5120 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted April 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, lilroodude said: So he took Tim O'Shea's players and got them to win a NCAAT game over Georgetown? That's a Helluva feat. Then took his own players and went to the Sweet Sixteen two years later. Cooper (Groce's guy) was a key cog on that team that beat Georgetown. Cooper played more minutes that year than ANY other player in the MAC, but whatever narrative Zach wants to push. Edited April 4, 2017 by LZIp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Larry Williams's career will be defined by this hire. It says a lot about him and how he operates that he chose Groce out of all the possibilities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, LZIp said: Cooper (Groce's guy) was a key cog on that team that beat Georgetown. Cooper is the main factor in Groce's successes in the MAC. Without him, his coaching career would have been over long ago. He parleyed it into a Big Ten job that he promptly crashed into the ground. Why do we want this guy taking charge of our program? In the desperate hope that he can pull another surprise star player like Cooper out of his ass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted April 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ZachTheZip said: Cooper is the main factor in Groce's successes in the MAC. Without him, his coaching career would have been over long ago. He parleyed it into a Big Ten job that he promptly crashed into the ground. Why do we want this guy taking charge of our program? In the desperate hope that he can pull another surprise star player like Cooper out of his ass? Jimmies and Joes > Xs and Os. No coach is anything without his players. Using that against him doesn't make sense especially when his recruiting success is well documented on this thread. If you want to conveniently ignore that then so be it Edited April 4, 2017 by LZIp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, lilroodude said: So he took Tim O'Shea's players and got them to win a NCAAT game over Georgetown? That's a Helluva feat. Maybe it is. But you're focusing on single games that were major upsets over 9 years of his career. There's his team's performance over 300+ other games in his career that should be equally evaluated as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, LZIp said: Jimmies and Joes > Xs and Os. No coach is anything without his players. Using that against him doesn't make sense especially when his recruiting success is well documented on this thread. How was his recruiting at Illinois? What makes you think after running that program into the ground (by Illinois standards) he'll have any recruiting cache left? Edited April 4, 2017 by ZachTheZip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted April 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, ZachTheZip said: How was his recruiting at Illinois? What makes you think after running that program into the ground (by Illinois standards) he'll have any recruiting cache? He just pulled in a consensus top 10 class this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoZips94 Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, skip-zip said: Maybe it is. But you're focusing on single games that were major upsets over 9 years of his career. There's his team's performance over 300+ other games in his career that should be equally evaluated as well. Yes, and I've been through 300+ games of MAC success with nothing to show for it but a bunch of Participation Trophies such as consecutive 21 win seasons. I would've traded a 21+ win season for a 19 win season that included some upsets and an NCAAT win. I. Want. Tournament. Wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, LZIp said: He just pulled in a consensus top 10 class this year. And they fired him anyway. What does that tell you? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWAkron Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Which coach could we realistically hire who could GUARANTEE success? Please give me a name of someone you can guarantee will make us a high mid-major. You can't do it. No one can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, lilroodude said: Yes, and I've been through 300+ games of MAC success with nothing to show for it but a bunch of Participation Trophies such as consecutive 21 win seasons. I would've traded a 21+ win season for a 19 win season that included some upsets and an NCAAT win. I. Want. Tournament. Wins. Everybody does. I'll trade 2 wins every year for a NCAA Tournament win too. But you're following a crazy scenario that took place a few years ago (one of them from the #9 seed position) and expecting duplication. You have to GET to the NCAA tournament first. And that takes WINS. As of late, this guy hasn't done either. And when he did it previously (OU), he did it by coming from some unlikely positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, NWAkron said: Which coach could we realistically hire who could GUARANTEE success? Please give me a name of someone you can guarantee will make us a high mid-major. You can't do it. No one can. No, but you can get a good start by eliminating the names that would guarantee mediocrity or poor results. That narrows the field by a pretty significant amount. Then you do your due diligence and pick one, and hope you got it right. Groce, by the way, would not pass muster by using this method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoZips94 Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, skip-zip said: Everybody does. I'll trade 2 wins every year for a NCAA Tournament win too. But you're following a crazy scenario that took place a few years ago (one of them from the #9 seed position) and expecting duplication. You have to GET to the NCAA tournament first. And that takes WINS. As of late, this guy hasn't done either. And when he did it previously (OU), he did it by coming from some unlikely positions. Well, he found a way to get there, and found a way to have NCAAT success, all within 4 years. 13 years of "wins" got us 3 NCAAT appearances, and 0 NCAAT wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWAkron Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) And that's the point Skip-Zip we live in this MAC bubble and unfortunately we have to wait until a cold Saturday evening in March before we can judge success. And I will go out on a limb and say he is much better than what just left us. Edited April 4, 2017 by NWAkron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odhgibo Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Lies, damn lies, and statistics ... I know. In O'Shea's last three years, OU was 58-37 and they finished 4th, 4th and 3rd. Groce had a very mediocre first year, 15-17 (6th), before going 70-39 (5th, 3rd, 3rd). As a point of comparison, KD in those same three years was 69-36, playing what I suspect was a weaker OOC schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 If Groce stayed at OU they would have crushed us for a few years. He parlayed his success into big time recruits that left when he did. We never got to that step. Let's hope he can get there with us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozips19 Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 I am cool with this hire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkwgriswold Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Looking forward to the first appearance of Groce with Frenchy. LOL. Like Kreed and the balanced folks have stated, there are positives and negatives. We just have to wait and see at this point. I would say they could have saved the money on the search firm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mes102 Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, NWAkron said: Which coach could we realistically hire who could GUARANTEE success? Please give me a name of someone you can guarantee will make us a high mid-major. You can't do it. No one can. McDevitt Edited April 5, 2017 by mes102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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