College Basketball Scandal

[UAZip0510]

https://sports.yahoo.com/fbi-probe-uncovers-massive-college-basketball-scandal-snaring-big-time-programs-144631716.html

 

It's days like this I appreciate guys like Coach Dambrot and Coach Groce who run clean programs.  

 

Wonder if any MAC schools will get caught up in this...

[ZZZips]

The federal Prosecutors will skate by the small  stuff like a donor picking up the cost of a car for a Toledo basketball player.  They are trying to shut down the big guys.  This first set of indictments are to get the small guys to turn on the big prey.  Watch the employees of Nike and Adidas and the assistant coaches turn on their coaching fraternity to get reduced sentences.  Here is one of the biggest target: 

http://bit.ly/2yreu1I

[Blue & Gold]

4 hours ago, ZZZips said:

The federal Prosecutors will skate by the small  stuff like a donor picking up the cost of a car for a Toledo basketball player.  They are trying to shut down the big guys.  This first set of indictments are to get the small guys to turn on the big prey.  Watch the employees of Nike and Adidas and the assistant coaches turn on their coaching fraternity to get reduced sentences.  Here is one of the biggest target: 

http://bit.ly/2yreu1I

Good.

[MDZip]

Louisville sold it's soul in pursuit of athletic glory. Pitino and Petrino are two of the scummiest coaches in all of college athletics. I hope Louisville goes down hard. 

[LZIp]

Quite an intriguing story. I'm surprised to see the Fed's going after this, though. Need to do some more reading up on this

[ZachTheZip]

21 minutes ago, LZIp said:

Quite an intriguing story. I'm surprised to see the Fed's going after this, though. Need to do some more reading up on this

 

Feds = tax evasion.

 

Also, this isn't the end. Typically, you start with low-level targets and get them to flip to testify against the big targets in exchange for lighter sentences.

[Dr Z]

 I'll guess this does little to fix the real issue.  I fear the "haves" lose some coaches and end up taking good coaches from the "have nots", and weaken them even more. 

[Let'sGoZips94]

Scumbag #1 = Gone.

[LZIp]

Frankly shocked to hear nothing of Calipari/UK yet. Everywhere he's gone he has left in trouble, if I'm not mistaken.

[zippy5]

Nike schools are probably next

[akzipper]

4 hours ago, Dr Z said:

 I'll guess this does little to fix the real issue.  I fear the "haves" lose some coaches and end up taking good coaches from the "have nots", and weaken them even more. 

 

I've been thinking the same thing. The big guys never really get punished and sometimes even get better. It's unfortunate, especially since most small schools do things the right way. The biggest NCAA scandals of the past couple of decades? Penn State football, Ohio State football, UNC basketball, Miami football, Florida State football, USC football. All of those teams are still at the top. All had different infractions, but no penalties seemed to hurt them, except for maybe 1 or 2 losing seasons. I'm sure Louisville will get someone like Tom Crean and be just fine...

 

[zippy5]

11 minutes ago, akzipper said:

 

I've been thinking the same thing. The big guys never really get punished and sometimes even get better. It's unfortunate, especially since most small schools do things the right way. The biggest NCAA scandals of the past couple of decades? Penn State football, Ohio State football, UNC basketball, Miami football, Florida State football, USC football. All of those teams are still at the top. All had different infractions, but no penalties seemed to hurt them, except for maybe 1 or 2 losing seasons. I'm sure Louisville will get someone like Tom Crean and be just fine...

 

Which elicits another question. Should the whole athletic program suffer if those responsible are gone? If Pitino, his staff, the AD are gone.. Should the rest of the players, recruits, fans, etc. suffer? It was a question on the Penn St sanctions too when the whole cabinet was cleaned. I don't know the answer.

[akzipper]

7 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Which elicits another question. Should the whole athletic program suffer if those responsible are gone? If Pitino, his staff, the AD are gone.. Should the rest of the players, recruits, fans, etc. suffer? It was a question on the Penn St sanctions too when the whole cabinet was cleaned. I don't know the answer.

 

Every situation is different. But if a school has an unfair advantage, yes they should be punished. 

[zippy5]

And if that advantage is (supposedly) gone now? 

[skip-zip]

41 minutes ago, akzipper said:

The big guys never really get punished and sometimes even get better. It's unfortunate, especially since most small schools do things the right way. The biggest NCAA scandals of the past couple of decades? Penn State football, Ohio State football, UNC basketball, Miami football, Florida State football, USC football. All of those teams are still at the top. All had different infractions, but no penalties seemed to hurt them, except for maybe 1 or 2 losing seasons.

 

Maybe the consequences will be different this time.   Maybe they'll truly go after them hard this time.  I welcome anything that helps to shake things up, and possibly even the playing field a bit.  

[kreed5120]

The sanctions need to be severe enough to make programs not want to risk it in the future. Louisville will definitely has wins vacated, but that's pretty trivial IMO. They should be forced to pay back tourney credits and have 2-3 scholarships docked for a few years.

[Spin]

3 hours ago, zippy5 said:

And if that advantage is (supposedly) gone now? 

 

How deep do you go? When the Sweater Vest went down in flames, Gene Smith and the Bowtie walked away scot free. But does anybody on this forum or anywhere else really think these two REALLY had nothing to do with that? Gene is still there, pocketing $1.5 mil a year, Gee would still be there if he hadn't shown his true colors. Still, WVU caught his fall to the tune of $3/4 mill...

 

At Penn State the old boy club got what they deserved, but did anybody above them take part in the cover up? And who hired the kiddie fondlers and the secret keepers in the first place? Penn State got hit hard, but it was hardly a death penalty, more a chance to clean house of all the sludge out of the system and start building a playoff-contending program. Something JoPa hadn't done in 17 years. So yeah it was a rough couple years between bowl games, but...

 

I'm not seeing the punishment fitting the crime in any of these cases. Pitino falls on his sword, the program gets some wins "vacated" () the AD throws him under the bus and keeps his $1.4m salary. The president pretends to dust the dirt off his sleeves and moves onto the next topic. A handful of "students" get their payola and schollys taken away, probably go to another contending program, and start.The other handful of "student" athletes may miss out on the Dance. While getting more playing time. And 10 years from now, it'll be another program (maybe coached by Pitino) getting their hand slapped too.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Spin

[Balsy]

10 hours ago, Spin said:

 

How deep do you go? When the Sweater Vest went down in flames, Gene Smith and the Bowtie walked away scot free. But does anybody on this forum or anywhere else really think these two REALLY had nothing to do with that? Gene is still there, pocketing $1.5 mil a year, Gee would still be there if he hadn't shown his true colors. Still, WVU caught his fall to the tune of $3/4 mill...

 

At Penn State the old boy club got what they deserved, but did anybody above them take part in the cover up? And who hired the kiddie fondlers and the secret keepers in the first place? Penn State got hit hard, but it was hardly a death penalty, more a chance to clean house of all the sludge out of the system and start building a playoff-contending program. Something JoPa hadn't done in 17 years. So yeah it was a rough couple years between bowl games, but...

 

I'm not seeing the punishment fitting the crime in any of these cases. Pitino falls on his sword, the program gets some wins "vacated" () the AD throws him under the bus and keeps his $1.4m salary. The president pretends to dust the dirt off his sleeves and moves onto the next topic. A handful of "students" get their payola and schollys taken away, probably go to another contending program, and start.The other handful of "student" athletes may miss out on the Dance. While getting more playing time. And 10 years from now, it'll be another program (maybe coached by Pitino) getting their hand slapped too.

 

Yup.  But can we expect anything less?  This system of profiteering on "students" who don't get paid...with shoe deals, sporting contracts, tv contracts, and all sorts of other asinine nonsense; all off of essentially free labor...this is what we should expect to happen.  There is a direct motive for people to lie, cheat and scheme in order to get an advantage.  In fact, if you don't lie, cheat and scheme, you're risking a shot at millions.  So there is a direct incentive to do so.  And there's "rules" against it, but it's the wild-wild west as this case is showing us.

 

Pro-leagues are just as cut throat with money, but it isn't in the shadows.  Everyone's making millions (including the players) and they pay the money to players directly to come make their program better so they can (hopefully) make even more money.  Instead in college athletics, you have to maintain the fake venier of "Integrity" and "student" athlete, when in reality it's a minor-pro league without the athlete payroll.  You've got to give yourself an advantage right?  So finding a way to pay the athlete is going to be conjured up.

 

TBH, it's just another example of where being honorable means getting screwed.  There's no way in hell this isn't just scratching the surface of the crap that goes on in "Blue-Chip" programs.

[LZIp]

4 hours ago, Balsy said:

 

Yup.  But can we expect anything less?  This system of profiteering on "students" who don't get paid...with shoe deals, sporting contracts, tv contracts, and all sorts of other asinine nonsense; all off of essentially free labor...this is what we should expect to happen.  There is a direct motive for people to lie, cheat and scheme in order to get an advantage.  In fact, if you don't lie, cheat and scheme, you're risking a shot at millions.  So there is a direct incentive to do so.  And there's "rules" against it, but it's the wild-wild west as this case is showing us.

 

Pro-leagues are just as cut throat with money, but it isn't in the shadows.  Everyone's making millions (including the players) and they pay the money to players directly to come make their program better so they can (hopefully) make even more money.  Instead in college athletics, you have to maintain the fake venier of "Integrity" and "student" athlete, when in reality it's a minor-pro league without the athlete payroll.  You've got to give yourself an advantage right?  So finding a way to pay the athlete is going to be conjured up.

 

TBH, it's just another example of where being honorable means getting screwed.  There's no way in hell this isn't just scratching the surface of the crap that goes on in "Blue-Chip" programs.

What exactly is Akron profiting off of? Same goes for the majority of D1 schools when talking athletics.

 

Have you seen the videos where they show walk-ons getting scholarships? Don't tell me full-ride scholarships with full-rides don't have value.

[Balsy]

1 hour ago, LZIp said:

What exactly is Akron profiting off of? Same goes for the majority of D1 schools when talking athletics.

 

Have you seen the videos where they show walk-ons getting scholarships? Don't tell me full-ride scholarships with full-rides don't have value.

 

LZip I wasn't saying Akron...I was talking about the Blue-Chip programs.  They have ALOT to gain from it.

 

But to break down what Akron has to profit from:  Not the Institution directly, the people involved do; coaches, Athletic Directors etc.  They do financially have something to gain from from the success of the program.  Raises, bonuses, contract extensions.  And they're getting payed six figures.  Better players means better chance of success.  Better chance of success means better chance we keep our jobs and the gravy-train keeps coming.

 

Scholarships do have value, but nearly as much value as the overwhelming sums of money Blue-Chip institutions make off the backs of "amateur" athletes.  Those Blue-Chip programs then resort to an arms-race with each others which institutions like ours can't keep up with.  In order to keep jobs, and to safe face, non-blue chip programs poor millions they'll never see again into those programs to try to begin to compete.  

 

So yes, we get screwed.  Every way about it (Akron).  But Blue-Chip programs have every incentive to cheat, lie, walk the boundary of morality in order to be successful.  Because everyone's free lunch depends on it.  (Yes I call the overwhelming money grab by TV, Shoes and whatever other contracts made to make money off student athletes, a free-lunch, because they ain't gotta do/create crap to do it).

[LZIp]

6 minutes ago, Balsy said:

 

LZip I wasn't saying Akron...I was talking about the Blue-Chip programs.  They have ALOT to gain from it.

 

But to break down what Akron has to profit from:  Not the Institution directly, the people involved do; coaches, Athletic Directors etc.  They do financially have something to gain from from the success of the program.  Raises, bonuses, contract extensions.  And they're getting payed six figures.  Better players means better chance of success.  Better chance of success means better chance we keep our jobs and the gravy-train keeps coming.

 

Scholarships do have value, but nearly as much value as the overwhelming sums of money Blue-Chip institutions make off the backs of "amateur" athletes.  Those Blue-Chip programs then resort to an arms-race with each others which institutions like ours can't keep up with.  In order to keep jobs, and to safe face, non-blue chip programs poor millions they'll never see again into those programs to try to begin to compete.  

 

So yes, we get screwed.  Every way about it (Akron).  But Blue-Chip programs have every incentive to cheat, lie, walk the boundary of morality in order to be successful.  Because everyone's free lunch depends on it.  (Yes I call the overwhelming money grab by TV, Shoes and whatever other contracts made to make money off student athletes, a free-lunch, because they ain't gotta do/create crap to do it).

So what is your solution to fix the problem? Just pay the players at blue-chip programs and create an even larger lack of parity? How are you going to determine if a program is a "blue-chip" program or not?

[zippy5]

How many blue chip programs are there?

[skip-zip]

2 hours ago, LZIp said:

So what is your solution to fix the problem? Just pay the players at blue-chip programs and create an even larger lack of parity? 

 

Amen.  How in the world are you going to fix a problem that was created by a lot of money being involved........by infusing even more money into the mix.  

 

As I've said many times.  This should be COLLEGE ATHLETICS.  If Yale and Harvard once again became the respected college athletic programs in our country, I'd say that would be a move in the right direction.  As long as people keep giving boatloads of money to these pathetic shadows of "college athletic programs", and nobody does anything about it, we're all missing out on the true joy of what college athletics should be all about.   

[UAZip0510]

I'm surprised to hear some say cheating/paying players big sums is just a problem at "big" schools.  I know of one MAC program that plays very dirty.

[Balsy]

2 hours ago, LZIp said:

So what is your solution to fix the problem? Just pay the players at blue-chip programs and create an even larger lack of parity? How are you going to determine if a program is a "blue-chip" program or not?

 

23 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

Amen.  How in the world are you going to fix a problem that was created by a lot of money being involved........by infusing even more money into the mix.  

 

As I've said many times.  This should be COLLEGE ATHLETICS.  If Yale and Harvard once again became the respected college athletic programs in our country, I'd say that would be a move in the right direction.  As long as people keep giving boatloads of money to these pathetic shadows of "college athletic programs", and nobody does anything about it, we're all missing out on the true joy of what college athletics should be all about.   

 

Gosh and people say Liberals live in a delusional fantasy world...

 

Reality is people will continue to make money off of it.  Not you're not "infusing even more money into the mix" you're putting the money instead where it should be going in the first place.  I agree with you that we should go back to a COLLEGE system that doesn't have hundreds of millions to billions of dollars at stake with the "XYZ Company OFFICIAL REVIEW CAMERA" money.  But that is never going to happen, because too many people like getting gravy from the gravy-train without having to create, build, renovate or work.

 

Always, always, always follow the money.  Money talks, money controls.  If you don't have control on the money, then nothing is under control.  The only option is legislating it.  Too bad that too will never happen, because they also benefit greatly from the gravy-train.  

 

Stop living in a delusional world.