Smaller, Leaner athletic program...

[LZIp]

"Stay in FBS? Meh. FCS or D2?! Sign me up!" Such an odd take.

[NWAkron]

3 minutes ago, LZIp said:

"Stay in FBS? Meh. FCS or D2?! Sign me up!" Such an odd take.

Never heard from a few of these guys when the basketball team was winning big this year.  Consider the source.  

[Blue & Gold]

 

[jupitertoo]

Terry Pluto is the kudzu of sports journalism.  He's been  "scribbling" the same crap to himself and readers for 30 years.  Nothing new here - he's always been dismissive of MAC football,  largely because local MAC football coaches don't cozy up to him. That's also why he never writes about OSU - they don't suck up to him as do the Browns and small-college coaches.

 

Those interested in the future of higher ed in Ohio might want to take a look at the 1970s. There was a huge build-up of public universities and facilities in the 1960s to address the explosion of high school students who wanted to avoid Vietnam. This led to a bunch of non-college caliber students enrolling at KSU, Toledo, OU, BG, Ohio State, etc. That bubble burst with the Kent State shootings. Parents who previously had sent their kids off to school were afraid to do so after May 4, 1970. Enrollments at Kent, OU, BG and others plummeted from 1971-75.  OU was projected to have an enrollment of 28K on the main campus by 1971 and nearly 30K by 1975. They built more than a dozen new dorms to meet that demand. In the spring of 1970, prior to Kent, there were nearly 20K on campus. That following fall, after the shootings and the forced closure of Ohio college campuses, only 13K showed up.  Thousands of students ended up at Cleveland State, Tri-C, OSU, etc. so their parents could keep an eye on them at home. To avoid bankruptcy, OU had to give up one of its most successful regional campuses (now Shawnee State) and sell several buildings back to the state.  The university eventually was able to stabilize enrollment and reacquire those buildings for a medical school.  

 

I expect the same to happen with COVID.  The state will be forced to take a very hard look at the number of campuses and administrations. I predict a return to the "4 in the corners and one in the middle" vision that existed prior to Gov. Rhodes.  That would be 1 main university cluster in each of the state's four corners plus the behemoth in Columbus.  One or more of those four "corner" schools might become "The Ohio State University at _________."

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by jupitertoo

[zippypitt]

46 minutes ago, LZIp said:

"Competing" in FBS? Meh. Competing in FCS or D2?! Sign me up!

A more accurate take.

[GP1]

21 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

 

Uh, no. Pluto is ignorant of the landscape of college athletics and should not be posting such ignorance. He is now, always has been and always will be the guy who misreads every situation. The guy has been a plague on the sports fans of NE Ohio for decades now. The answer is not "what's the best way to give up?". The question is, "how do schools like us to maximize our potential?".  I don't believe that is dropping down a division. It might be creating our own division/conference/whatever, but it isn't dropping down.

 

If the benchmark for whether or not schools make money with their athletic departments determines their level of football, there would only be around 20 high level football teams. If it all narrowed down to money, there should be no college athletics at all, which is never going to happen because so many traditions in the USA revolve around it. College athletics would become club sports.

 

Besides, if we made a unilateral move, who would want us?  Is the commissioner of the powerhouse Pioneer League putting on his best 1970s era polyester suit, getting in his Honda Fit, driving to Akron and begging us to join over a lunch at Rockne's?

 

Some people really need to put some thought in to this and it can't be people like Terry Pluto or worse, the athletic directors who got us in this mess.

 

Ask the right questions, you get the right answers.

[NWAkron]

3 hours ago, GP1 said:

Uh, no. Pluto is ignorant of the landscape of college athletics and should not be posting such ignorance. He is now, always has been and always will be the guy who misreads every situation. The guy has been a plague on the sports fans of NE Ohio for decades now. The answer is not "what's the best way to give up?". The question is, "how do schools like us to maximize our potential?".  I don't believe that is dropping down a division. It might be creating our own division/conference/whatever, but it isn't dropping down.

 

If the benchmark for whether or not schools make money with their athletic departments determines their level of football, there would only be around 20 high level football teams. If it all narrowed down to money, there should be no college athletics at all, which is never going to happen because so many traditions in the USA revolve around it. College athletics would become club sports.

 

Besides, if we made a unilateral move, who would want us?  Is the commissioner of the powerhouse Pioneer League putting on his best 1970s era polyester suit, getting in his Honda Fit, driving to Akron and begging us to join over a lunch at Rockne's?

 

Some people really need to put some thought in to this and it can't be people like Terry Pluto or worse, the athletic directors who got us in this mess.

 

Ask the right questions, you get the right answers.

He's like Bob Dyer:  a useless hack who loves to read his own words or hear himself talk or both.

Edited April 29, 2020 by NWAkron

[Captain Kangaroo]

If the Zips dropped to Division 2 in football, it would be the equivalent of a 350 lb guy deciding he needs to lose a quick 60 lbs, so he cuts off his leg. 

[Blue & Gold]

3 hours ago, GP1 said:

Uh, no. Pluto is ignorant of the landscape of college athletics and should not be posting such ignorance. He is now, always has been and always will be the guy who misreads every situation. The guy has been a plague on the sports fans of NE Ohio for decades now. The answer is not "what's the best way to give up?". The question is, "how do schools like us to maximize our potential?". 

???

(Out of Likes)

Edited April 29, 2020 by Blue & Gold

[footballzip]

Lets get the kids back on campus. Get this Covid stuff behind us. Make some cuts and stay in the MAC where we belong. Football, Soccer and Basketball are the priority sports we need to preserve. We already committed by building a Div 1 stadium and Field house. Makes no sense to drop divisions. Seems like KSU and other MAC schools are in the same position. Keep playing couple big boy teams a season and collect the cash. Fun for the players to play against the big time programs. Administration doesn't need to make a knee jerk decision. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by footballzip

[NWAkron]

8 minutes ago, footballzip said:

Lets get the kids back on campus. Get this Covid stuff behind us. Make some cuts and stay in the MAC where we belong. Football, Soccer and Basketball are the priority sports we need to preserve. We already committed by building a Div 1 stadium and field house. Makes no sense to drop divisions. Seems like KSU and other MAC schools are in the same position. Keep playing  couple big boy teams a season and collect the cash. Fun for the players to play against the big time programs. Administration doesn't need to make a knee jerk decision.

Amen.

[clarkwgriswold]

19 minutes ago, footballzip said:

Lets get the kids back on campus. Get this Covid stuff behind us. Make some cuts and stay in the MAC where we belong. Football, Soccer and Basketball are the priority sports we need to preserve. We already committed by building a Div 1 stadium and field house. Makes no sense to drop divisions. Seems like KSU and other MAC schools are in the same position. Keep playing couple big boy teams a season and collect the cash. Fun for the players to play against the big time programs. Administration doesn't need to make a knee jerk decision.

 

Fair enough.  The MAC is a good fit.  It begs the question- where do they look to make the cuts?  Axe programs?  Across the board cuts?

[GP1]

The post from Pluto above has really rubbed my rear end the wrong way. I'm trying to keep my comments isolated to the athletic department as the football team just drives me insane, but I'll try to post about the football team anyhow without going insane.

 

Why do people like Pluto look at a situation and always compare what goes on at Akron to OSU?  Extreme thinking is not what we need. Extreme thinking is frequently magical thinking. There are better comparisons to many other schools. Crawl-walk-run. Why can't we start with being like Northwestern in comparison? They were a horrible program until 2000 and are respectable now.  They have been through two coaches and have remained good. Their fans aren't even that picky.

 

Committed coaching, a few solid players committed to the program, some confidence and the inevitable choking of your opponent if you can keep from shooting yourself in the foot is just about all it takes to get to 6-8 wins as a MAC team and be a favorite to win your division. Friends, family, the community and alumni are happy....what's not to like? There has not been a Clemson of the MAC for a long time now. At least since Roethlisberger was at Miami. The league is there for the taking if you can just do those four extremely basic things.

 

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” - Sun Tzu. I ask you my fellow Zips/G5 fans, do we know who our enemies are? Do we know ourselves? Are we relying on magical thinking too much and if we just stopped could we win where and at what we want to do? I'd love a discussion where we define our enemies because I think the first on those lists should be the athletic directors at our schools.  They are without a doubt the biggest problem we have. Future big picture decisions of our leagues should not include ADs. Their only job should be to push the paper. G5 ADs are blithering morons who only have their sights set on their next job and will make one bad decision after another for the schools they work at to get their next job.

[Blue & Gold]

6 minutes ago, GP1 said:

Why do people like Pluto look at a situation and always compare what goes on at Akron to OSU?  Extreme thinking is not what we need.

 

To be fair to Terry, he actually compared us to Alabama. ?

[Lee Adams]

7 hours ago, NWAkron said:

Never heard from a few of these guys when the basketball team was winning big this year.  Consider the source.  

Many of those 'people' U said U never heard from have been posting here for years. By the way basketball is another thread.

[Lee Adams]

The emporer has no clothes.

[Captain Kangaroo]

15 hours ago, Lee Adams said:

The emporer has no clothes.

Sam's Emporium has jewelry.

[kreed5120]

17 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Fair enough.  The MAC is a good fit.  It begs the question- where do they look to make the cuts?  Axe programs?  Across the board cuts?

 

Whatever 4 non-revenue sports that would generate the most net savings should be the sports cut. From there we need to slash overhead costs at the remaining 16 sports.

[Captain Kangaroo]

14 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

Whatever 4 non-revenue sports that would generate the most net savings should be the sports cut. From there we need to slash overhead costs at the remaining 16 sports.

If baseball were cut, Bill and Mary Skeeles would be pretty pissed.

[NWAkron]

5 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

If baseball were cut, Bill and Mary Skeeles would be pretty pissed.

Yeah.  Was thinking same thing.  And considering baseball is donor supported it should stay.  

[kreed5120]

14 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

If baseball were cut, Bill and Mary Skeeles would be pretty pissed.

 

If baseball is being operated as a donor funded sport, like promised, it would seem safe to me.

[clarkwgriswold]

I'd have to see how much was donor supported.  We could always put the Skeeles' names on the JAR.  Rhodes can't complain!

[UA1987]

1 hour ago, kreed5120 said:

 

Whatever 4 non-revenue sports that would generate the most net savings should be the sports cut. From there we need to slash overhead costs at the remaining 16 sports.

Agree on any non-revenue program cuts where allowed by affilation. I don't think, however, that program and overhead cuts would get the University to the 20%, but I'm sure they are looking at cutting down to bone wherever possible. I would hope the AD does not consider administrative position changes that would handicap soccer, basketball and football. As I've said I'd like it if the AD allocated football additional funds (not something egregious) to make sure we have highly thought of young assistant coaches with an experienced one or two. Funk made a big difference here a few years ago here on the OL , till he left for more money. From charts I've seen posted on Zipsnation, if I remember correctly, our new assistant coaching staff is not being paid a whole lot. Most of the time you get what you pay for. This bump in assistant coaches salary would be wise too if we plan on playing another road OOC payday game or two (we need better recruiting and preparation). Anyhow, I think the Info stadium debt should be refinanced per my earlier post as this could save a ton right away - I sent the AD a note about refinacing the stadium debt - ha ha (he probably deleted it without reading) - but I'm sure they are already looking into it (you never know though).                        

Edited April 30, 2020 by UA1987

[clarkwgriswold]

21 minutes ago, UA1987 said:

Agree on any non-revenue program cuts where allowed by affilation. I don't think, however, that program and overhead cuts would get the University to the 20%, but I'm sure they are looking at cutting down to bone wherever possible. I would hope the AD does not consider administrative position changes that would handicap soccer, basketball and football. As I've said I'd like to allocate football additional funds (not much) to make sure we have highly thought of young assistant coaches with an experienced one or two. Funk made a big difference here a few years ago here on the OL , till he left for more money. From charts I've seen posted on Zipsnation, if I remember correctly, our new assistant coaching staff is not being paid a whole lot. Most of the time you get what you pay for. This bump in assistant coaches salary would be wise too if we plan on playing another road OOC payday game or two (we need better recruiting and preparation). Anyhow, I think the Info stadium debt should be refinanced per my earlier post as this could save a ton right away - I sent the AD a note about refinacing the stadium debt - ha ha (he probably deleted it without reading) - but I'm sure they are already looking into it (you never know though).                        

 

Imagine that conversation in the private sector.  "We have this property that we're upside down in that nobody else wants and it's 10 years old and already decaying.  We'd like to refinance."  

 

Click.  "Hello.....hello?"

[zips1989]

So does anyone have any insight as to when we might have a decision on this?  I would think soon... they want football season tickets in by June 12th.