Larry Williams Gone - Replaced by UW-Green Bay's Charles Guthrie

[zippypitt]

4 hours ago, Aaron said:

I always thought this was driven by vegas - there are so many football gamblers, they needed something with some air of legitimacy to drive daily sports books and bring people in to the casinos.  The most well-informed articles about MAC football seem to be from gamblers, not fans at this point.

 

This is a very astute point.  I have numerous friends and co-workers that will watch ANYTHING as long as involves a football.  Why?  They are addicted to the sport and will place bets on the first quarter score.  They have zero rooting interest, don't care if a single person is in the stadium, and will gladly watch on a Tuesday evening to help them make it through the week to watch "real" football (P5 and NFL) on the weekend.  That's what the MAC has become: week day filler for football and gambling addicts.

[zippy5]

1 hour ago, GP1 said:

I'm here to help Clark.

 

Sentence 1:  Out of curiosity because I have no clue what the answers to these questions are:  Who was the commissioner? How much longer was this person commissioner after this decision?  How many commissioners have there been since? How many athletic directors from that era are still employed by their university?

 

Sentence 2:  I don't think for a second the athletic directors didn't consider any of this. I think they knew exactly what would happen. Anyone with half a brain could see what was going to happen. They did it to pad their resumes.

 

Sentence 3:  They don't believe this. Most tend to have advanced degrees, but that is dubious because an advanced degree can be obtained in the 21st Century by applying for a Masters program on line and paying the tuition. The next thing you know you have a diploma hanging on the wall. Let's assume for a second they are smart people. The evidence is overwhelming that the weeknight games are horrible for the schools. They have to understand this. They simply don't care. Their "dream jobs" are not working as a MAC level athletic director and if moving beyond that involves destroying the schools they work at, they will gladly do it and laugh their way to their next job.

For argument's sake, if they are smart people, even smarter people are hiring them away from MAC schools. Theoretically at least. What good is resume building if it's obvious that it's such a bad idea? Why does this bad idea get rewarded with a promotion if it's evident to all how dumb it is? 

[72 Roo]

ll take a stab at why the AD's supported the ESPN weeknight contract. To my understanding each MAC school picks up $1.4 M each year from the contract. So when the AD's weighed that revenue against low late season ticket sales and other game day revenue they opted for the contract. They probably felt if they could have this contract and find two big paydays from the P5 teams plus regular season revenue they could come close to paying for their football budget. At least that is how I would surmise their reasoning went. It might actually cover their budgets in the short term, but long term it is killing any interest in the MAC or bowl participation.

[GP1]

1 hour ago, zippy5 said:

For argument's sake, if they are smart people, even smarter people are hiring them away from MAC schools. Theoretically at least. What good is resume building if it's obvious that it's such a bad idea? Why does this bad idea get rewarded with a promotion if it's evident to all how dumb it is? 

How are they smarter?  I would argue they act solely to hoard money at the expense of their schools, alumni, fans and greater communities. My evidence is the upcoming football playoff expansion. It will galvanize the top schools at the top and everyone else will flounder. I don't think it takes a particularly smart person to hoard money at the expense of their employers. 

[GP1]

3 minutes ago, 72 Roo said:

ll take a stab at why the AD's supported the ESPN weeknight contract. To my understanding each MAC school picks up $1.4 M each year from the contract. So when the AD's weighed that revenue against low late season ticket sales and other game day revenue they opted for the contract. They probably felt if they could have this contract and find two big paydays from the P5 teams plus regular season revenue they could come close to paying for their football budget. At least that is how I would surmise their reasoning went. It might actually cover their budgets in the short term, but long term it is killing any interest in the MAC or bowl participation.

It's easy money when you have no other ideas and don't plan to stick around long enough to live your mistakes. 

[Captain Kangaroo]

ESPN is the $300 weekly stimulus check...it's welfare.

 

MAC schools would rather sit and home and collect ESPN's checks than build their programs, market them and fill stadiums. It's a lot less work. 

[Zipmeister]

3 hours ago, GP1 said:

I don't think it takes a particularly smart person to hoard money at the expense of their employers. 

 

I agree that hoarders are not particularly smart, but it helps if the employer is dumber than the hoarder.

[GP1]

17 hours ago, Zipmeister said:

 

I agree that hoarders are not particularly smart, but it helps if the employer is dumber than the hoarder.

I don't know if they are dumber. I think the leadership of G5 schools simply had bigger fish to fry, were not paying close enough attention, didn't really know what to do and sort of enabled the growing problem.

 

The results are in and the disaster is clear.  The past problem has metastisized to the point they have all but given up. The weeknight games are simply what the leadership does when they don't know what else to do. 

[GP1]

On 6/25/2021 at 4:13 PM, Captain Kangaroo said:

ESPN is the $300 weekly stimulus check...it's welfare.

 

MAC schools would rather sit and home and collect ESPN's checks than build their programs, market them and fill stadiums. It's a lot less work. 

While 100% true, with the exception of about 5-10 schools, you have described TV money for all of college athletics. Almost no schools books are in the black.  Taxpayers and student fees are picking up the rest. 

 

There is a whole series of lazy marketing behaviors over the past 30 years including partnering with organizations like img that wreak of laziness. 

 

I think the way G5 schools should market is as a community event and give back to the taxpayers what they are already paying for. It would take schools out of the world of welfare recipients and into the world of public service. Much like roads.  

[Spin]

So you're an AD at a mid-major, think of what a resume builder like "I signed Eastern Northern State to an ESPN contract" would do for you. 

 

Never mind how bad the weather is on a Tuesday night in November, or that students and alumni (outside of Can't State) have to get up in the morning to go to work. So what there's more players than fans. That part doesn't matter in the job interview with Billiondollar State. 

[Zipmeister]

23 hours ago, GP1 said:

I don't know if they are dumber. I think the leadership of G5 schools simply had bigger fish to fry, were not paying close enough attention, didn't really know what to do and sort of enabled the growing problem.

 

I believe you just enumerated some of the details which explain why they are dumber.

[GP1]

5 minutes ago, Spin said:

 

Never mind how bad the weather is on a Tuesday night in November, or that students and alumni (outside of Can't State) have to get up in the morning to go to work. So what there's more players than fans. That part doesn't matter in the job interview with Billiondollar State. 

For almost every school, having a billion dollars is mere illusion. Almost all lose money. 

 

The P5 conferences have their own tv networks. If the G5 schools forego Tuesday and Wednesday nights in ESPN, these conferences will move game so those nights. They will claim "greater exposure" as their reasoning, but we have learned that is all poop. They will fail. Let them. 

[GP1]

8 minutes ago, Zipmeister said:

 

I believe you just enumerated some of the details which explain why they are dumber.

Ignorance and stupidity are different things. I don't think I'm stupid. I do know there are billions things I'm ignorant about. Ignorance is a solvable problem. Stupidity is not. 

[Zipmeister]

4 hours ago, GP1 said:

Ignorance and stupidity are different things. I don't think I'm stupid. I do know there are billions things I'm ignorant about. Ignorance is a solvable problem. Stupidity is not. 

 

As Forest Gump's mom used to say, "Stupid is as stupid does."

[bobbyake]

With the coach Akron has, it’s unlikely we will win any games. The weeknight games don’t really make a difference for attendance, nobody wants to watch a sad losing culture. The payout from ESPN is smart. The payout from scheduling games against elite teams is smart. What was dumb was firing Bowden with years left on his contract while he was bringing a competitive culture to our program, and replacing him with the garbage coach that wasn’t proving himself where he was. At this point, we’re lucky to have a team still. We need a new coach and then we can start talking about smart moves. Might as well take all the money we can get right now.

Edited June 27, 2021 by bobbyake

[Spin]

6 hours ago, GP1 said:

For almost every school, having a billion dollars is mere illusion. Almost all lose money. 

 

An exaggeration of the difference between the budget of major college football programs compared to mid-majors. 

 

But you knew that.

[GP1]

12 hours ago, Spin said:

 

An exaggeration of the difference between the budget of major college football programs compared to mid-majors. 

 

But you knew that.

Ok.  An exaggeration.  Here is something more accurately stated.  

 

For almost every school, profiting $10.00 is mere illusion.  They almost all lose money.

[GP1]

14 hours ago, bobbyake said:

The payout from ESPN is smart. The payout from scheduling games against elite teams is smart. 

Smart for whom?

The revenues Ohio MAC schools make off of TV and elite schools could easily be absorbed into the Ohio general budget and paid for by the taxpayers. Ohio MAC football is basically a ward of the State of Ohio and should be treated as such. As long as the taxpayers are paying for it, they should have access to it, much like roads and bridges.

[Spin]

7 hours ago, GP1 said:

Ok.  An exaggeration.  Here is something more accurately stated.  

 

For almost every school, profiting $10.00 is mere illusion.  They almost all lose money.

They all lose money except MAYBE 2-4. But the difference in budgets is incredible. TV revenue, ad revenue, ticket sales, radio broadcast fees, memorabilia, hell tOSU probably makes more from signage at the Shoe than a MAC school’s football budget. 

[Aaron]

According to the NCAA's revenue database, 147 schools are making profit or neutral for athletics in general.  81 schools are losing money.  You can see the numbers at https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances.  Akron and OSU are both on the losing side, with Akron at -$81k and OSU at -$10M.  In overall athletic budgets, only Akron, Kent, Ball State, and WMU lose money in the MAC (or at least report those numbers properly to the NCAA).  There's a link to how the numbers are calculated in the revenue/expense link.  

[GP1]

4 hours ago, Aaron said:

According to the NCAA's revenue database, 147 schools are making profit or neutral for athletics in general.  81 schools are losing money.  You can see the numbers at https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances.  Akron and OSU are both on the losing side, with Akron at -$81k and OSU at -$10M.  In overall athletic budgets, only Akron, Kent, Ball State, and WMU lose money in the MAC (or at least report those numbers properly to the NCAA).  There's a link to how the numbers are calculated in the revenue/expense link.  

If they are counting taxpayers funding and student fees into the "revenue" column, I'll buy it. Roughly 70% of the athletic departments budget is subsidized. It's what the NCAA doesn't want to report. Does anyone believe OSU actually loses money?

https://www.hustlebelt.com/2020/4/24/21233631/university-of-akron-president-recommends-20-percent-budget-cut-for-athletics-in-new-master-plan

[clarkwgriswold]

4 hours ago, Aaron said:

According to the NCAA's revenue database, 147 schools are making profit or neutral for athletics in general.  81 schools are losing money.  You can see the numbers at https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances.  Akron and OSU are both on the losing side, with Akron at -$81k and OSU at -$10M.  In overall athletic budgets, only Akron, Kent, Ball State, and WMU lose money in the MAC (or at least report those numbers properly to the NCAA).  There's a link to how the numbers are calculated in the revenue/expense link.  

 

Despite technically losing money the OSU athletics program produces huge revenue for the area and the university and well as good will and publicity that pays off in many other ways.  That can't be said of Zips sports. 

[GP1]

37 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

Despite technically losing money the OSU athletics program produces huge revenue for the area and the university and well as good will and publicity that pays off in many other ways.  That can't be said of Zips sports. 

There is no way on God's green Earth that OSU loses a dime, but that's not why I'm responding. 

 

What if MAC schools continued to operate at a loss, and produced events that benefit the students, alumni, fans and the general community? Does the money matter at that point? 

[72 Roo]

7 hours ago, Aaron said:

According to the NCAA's revenue database, 147 schools are making profit or neutral for athletics in general.  81 schools are losing money.  You can see the numbers at https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances.  Akron and OSU are both on the losing side, with Akron at -$81k and OSU at -$10M.  In overall athletic budgets, only Akron, Kent, Ball State, and WMU lose money in the MAC (or at least report those numbers properly to the NCAA).  There's a link to how the numbers are calculated in the revenue/expense link.  

I do not believe for a second that 147 schools make a profit or break even in athletics. A couple of years ago Forbes, I believe, reported that only 27 schools made a profit from athletics revenues, that is no support from the school's budget. OSU was one of them and they made a ton. Enough so that athletics gave millions back to OSU's general fund after paying for 37 varsity sports, the most in the country. This was on top of the building spree that OSU has been on for the last 20 years. That building spree was funded completely by the athletics dept's accrued funds or major donors. No university funds.  

[clarkwgriswold]

12 hours ago, GP1 said:

There is no way on God's green Earth that OSU loses a dime, but that's not why I'm responding. 

 

What if MAC schools continued to operate at a loss, and produced events that benefit the students, alumni, fans and the general community? Does the money matter at that point? 

 

That depends on the extent of the loss.  They still have to demonstrate some financial responsibility and not be a substantial financial burden to the school or community.  That being said, community involvement and support is a benefit certainly worthy of financial support, even at some loss.