The State of Athletics

[Zippy87]

I didn't know where to put this in the forum, but I'm curious about everyone's thoughts on the state of Akron Athletics, in particular progress made under Charles Guthrie. 

 

Men's basketball, men's soccer, and swimming and diving remain strong. Football remains a joke. Fan engagement and marketing is about the same. The rebrand was poorly executed, and I still see "old" logos on "new" items when looking to purchase Zips gear. 

 

Does anyone feel we are moving in the right direction?

[GP1]

3 hours ago, Zippy87 said:

Does anyone feel we are moving in the right direction?

Direction?....  Yes. I would say we are in a good place. 

 

The football program is poor but the athletic department is doing well. 

[Spin]

 

I don’t think the program is moving in ANY direction. It just sits there. It’s as if every coach hired had no vision. Or worse yet, an administration that forces the HC’s follow THEIR flawed vision.

What is the budget compared to other FBS programs? Is it the college football version of the 1970’s Cleveland Indians who had no money in the budget to sign quality players? is major college football broken to the point that there’s a glass ceiling between the legendary programs and everyone else, with very little chance of joining the boys club?

 

 

[GP1]

5 minutes ago, Spin said:

 

I don’t think the program is moving in ANY direction. It just sits there. It’s as if every coach hired had no vision. Or worse yet, an administration that forces the HC’s follow THEIR flawed vision.

 

Alignment between President, Athletic Director ang coaches is important. 

[Spin]

Akron should be competitive at the MAC football level by now. We’ve been in FBS for 25 years now. That’s a long time. That’s several AD’s (and a ton of head coaches) and here we are. Seemingly in the same spot we were in 1987. A winning season here and there doesn’t make up for the awful seasons.

 

Each one creates more apathy.

[Let'sGoZips94]

College athletics goes as football goes. That's the state of the college athletics world today. 

[clarkwgriswold]

32 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

College athletics goes as football goes. That's the state of the college athletics world today. 

Unless you prioritize other sports like a Gonzaga or Georgetown.  

[GP1]

16 hours ago, Spin said:

What is the budget compared to other FBS programs?

 

 

The relevant budget comparison is to primarily MAC and secondarily G5 schools. Id also like to know taxpayer support of programs with budget shortfalls. I'd also like to know what these schools are doing to add value to the taxpayers who are supporting their programs. 

 

The ultimate question to me centers around what G5 schools are doing to benefit the athletes, students, alumni, fans and general community around their schools. I don't think it takes massive budgets to do this smartly and well. In fact I believe the P5 schools are largely spending money on nonsense at this point and have lost sight of the mission. 

[Zippy87]

4 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

College athletics goes as football goes. That's the state of the college athletics world today. 

 

Plenty of schools who have had success without a successful (or any) football program.  Depends what you invest in.

[GoZips86]

Guthrie should be feeling some personal pressure I assume. Not job security pressure, but for him to have a good shot at a P5 job, I think he needs to be able to show he changed the football program for the better. So far the product still sucks under him, though I guess some will be impressed that he got JM to come to Akron, even though he hasnt done anything as coach. Also, attendance is still trash, which maybe theres nothing he can do about that, frankly. But I do believe football is his key to a P5 school if that's what he wants. He needs to show he changed the program. 

[GP1]

21 minutes ago, GoZips86 said:

Guthrie should be feeling some personal pressure I assume. Not job security pressure, but for him to have a good shot at a P5 job, I think he needs to be able to show he changed the football program for the better. So far the product still sucks under him, though I guess some will be impressed that he got JM to come to Akron, even though he hasnt done anything as coach. Also, attendance is still trash, which maybe theres nothing he can do about that, frankly. But I do believe football is his key to a P5 school if that's what he wants. He needs to show he changed the program. 

Good post. 

 

If I was hiring an AD at Akron's level I would look for someone could changed a program for the better for the athletes students alumni fans and general community. Are we seeing progress in those categories at Akron?

[ZippyRulz]

On 10/21/2023 at 6:20 PM, Zippy87 said:

I didn't know where to put this in the forum, but I'm curious about everyone's thoughts on the state of Akron Athletics, in particular progress made under Charles Guthrie. 

 

Men's basketball, men's soccer, and swimming and diving remain strong. Football remains a joke. Fan engagement and marketing is about the same. The rebrand was poorly executed, and I still see "old" logos on "new" items when looking to purchase Zips gear. 

 

Does anyone feel we are moving in the right direction?

 

The answer to that didn't change based on the BG game but for me it will hinge on these last 4 games depending on who does or doesn't play.

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by ZippyRulz

[Chrisball96]

5 minutes ago, ZippyRulz said:

 

The answer to that didn't change based on the BG game but it very well could hinge on these last 4 games depending on who does or doesn't play.

 

Maybe it’s too simplistic but I am hoping for something to be positive about in these next few games. Someone to step up and show flashes of potential or talent that we can somehow build off of in the next few years. Maybe just a general bump in our ability to fight and keep games close. Something, anything, to show there’s hope for the future. 

[Spin]

21 hours ago, GP1 said:

The relevant budget comparison is to primarily MAC and secondarily G5 schools. Id also like to know taxpayer support of programs budget shortfalls. I'd also like to know what these schools are doing to add value the taxpa are supporting their programs

The ultimate question to me centers around what G5 schools are doing to benefit the athletes, students, alumni, fans and general community around their schools. I don't think it takes massive budgets to do this smartly and well. In fact I believe the P5 schools are largely spending money on nonsense at this point and have lost sight of the mission. 

There is no doubt the properly run state university football program in Columbus not only operates at break even (at least a few years ago) but generates interest (and loyalty) to the school and millions of dollars into the local economy. If you drive a couple hours south from Akron, away from CLE, Cincy, and Pitt, OSU football IS LIFE. 
 

Akron was more popular as a successful FCS program than it is a basement FBS program. Think about that for a second. The old decrepit Rubber Bowl drew more fans, one of the big events of the season was a game sponsored by a local grocery store chain. At one point a human pinball errrrrr indoor soccer team was the most popular team in this market. They never sniffed a championship. This market will support a winning team no matter what it is. You have to market it and you have to win games (not dominate, just win and make it fun). Akron is failing in both of those.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Spin

[zippy-claws]

On 10/21/2023 at 6:20 PM, Zippy87 said:

I didn't know where to put this in the forum, but I'm curious about everyone's thoughts on the state of Akron Athletics, in particular progress made under Charles Guthrie. 

 

If you read my posts you know I'm not a fan of Guthrie.  That being said, I do believe Akron Athletics is better off now than under Larry Williams.  More on my thoughts on Guthrie later in this post.  Here's my "State of Akron Athletics" comments.   First - Facilities.  Since Guthrie arrived we've seen repairs made to InfoCision that were needed, although we still need to fix/replace the video board.  The JAR is what it is, but it's not terrible, and the new floor, the addition of a "$$$ donor bar" are all positives.  It still looks good, and those who do attend infrequently still think it's a good facility.  FirstEnergy continues to be one of the top Soccer-specific Stadiums in NCAA soccer, and they recently upgraded the sound system to give more sound clarity and moved the speaker system to make the seating area more enjoyable before the matches (you can actually talk to your neighbors pre-game without screaming!)  Ocasek is a very nice facility for swim meets, and they just added a huge, state-of-the art video system that is not only informative, entertaining and readable, but offers the swimmers and divers training assistance.  Of course, basketball is getting a new training facility as well.  And the new track and field complex at Lee Jackson field is fantastic, although the throws area are a little convoluted.  All of these were done under Guthrie, so hats off to the AD and The U on Facilites.

 

Coaches - Guthrie was smart enough to realize that Coaches Groce, Embick and Peresie were the most successful coaches (and programs) he had, so he's left them alone, and even has enhanced their contracts.  It doesn't mean he keeps his mouth shut and doesn't criticize them in public to others, which is a big negative IMHO about Charles.  He is overheard many times at games/meets/matches being very critical of his coaches to the general public, which I'm sure get back to the coaches mentioned and may tend to undermine their confidence.  That being said, I believe he made positive hires in football, softball and volleyball.  Baseball has been a circus.  He needed to move on from Sabo but the OSU coach fiasco and then not re-signing last year's coach has to be questioned, as well as his new hire.  Granted baseball hasn't started and time will tell but his pick is a little underwhelming.  The Women's soccer hire was and is disastrous, not that she is a bad person or knowledgeable, it's once again a terrible hire for a D1 school with a Nationally ranked Men's program.   Track and Field is another terrible hire.  Some will point to the 2023 Outdoor MAC title for men as an argument, but the head coach had little to do with that, it was the throws coach and his athletes that won that title.  Meanwhile the women's program is still in shambles.  And she's already lost the throws coach after one season and has gone through 2 PV coaches already in one year.  It's no secret Guthrie chased Coach Mitchell off, like he did Herlihy from soccer (needed).  Still...Now we have a new Lacrosse coach, so we'll have to see how that goes.  And I do feel the new hire for Women's basketball is a solid choice without watching one game, but once again, Guthrie's handling of the Jackson situation was pretty ham-handed.

 

Department - The Athletic Department is not what I would call a well-run machine.  Being a retired businesswoman, I understand wanting to have staff around you that you have confidence in and comfortable with.  And I understand the desire to change, but change for change sake is not always a good thing.  The department was already reeling from needed staff reductions, like all departments at Akron when Dr. Miller came on board.  It appears from the number and quality of recent departures from Athletics that the methodology is "make life hell on them and they'll leave on their own" rather than try to work towards a different and consistent approach.  They've lost a lot of good people and their replacements seem more like a hodge-podge rather than a unified front.

 

Game Day Experience - It is abysmal.  At all events.  From football's thuggish music on every down instead of marching band, lack of any entertainment during time-outs, quarter changes etc.  to the treatment of us fans by game-day staff, plus the cost of everything, it's not going to bring anyone to games.  Basketball was so-so but once again, where are the things that make families and casual fans want to attend?  They finally seemed to "get it" at the last few soccer matches with a few give-aways.  Let's face it, it just flat out is terrible across the board, especially compared to the entire MAC conference, other than perhaps KSU.  We do got to many away events in the MAC plus go to watch a niece and nephew who compete at other MAC schools, and hands-down we are 11th out of 12 in Game Day experience.  Eastern Michigan leads the way, Miami is very good, Toledo is solid, and I can go on.

 

So that's my "more-than-two-cents" worth.  I'm sure I've given enough ammo for some of you to tear into me and tell me where I'm wrong, but the premise was to offer "thoughts" on the State of Athletics....and these are mine.

 

[Akron1]

There seems to be such little community involvement by Athletics and our teams.  If athletes are volunteering - put it on social media and on GoZips.com.  We know the Akron Beacon Journal will not print any positive story, so blitz the small community newspapers.  Advertise games/ticket specials and send multiple press releases a day to those small newspapers about game results or community involvement.

 

Partner with FirstEnergy, Goodyear, Firestone, Akron Children’s, Summa, Cleveland Clinic, Signet, GPD Group etc...and offer to assist with their foundations.  Student athletes assisting with companies will put Akron Athletics on their radar.  Maybe that company buys a suite at InfoCision, maybe they book the baseline bar at the men's basketball games, maybe they donate to Swimming or Track or attend a Soccer, baseball  or softball game because they interacted with an Akron athlete.

 

What harm could it do?...No one donates or buys any additional tickets, so then our athletes learn about being better citizens and learn about civic pride, which is part of what higher education is supposed to do.

 

 

 

[GP1]

59 minutes ago, Spin said:

 This market will support a winning team no matter what it is. You have to market it and you have to win games (not dominate, just win and make it fun). Akron is failing in both of those.

Good post and thanks.

 

People love a winner, but they can stay home and watch OSU play in what is nearly a guaranteed win every week. 

 

My experience with college football in the past 15 years has been very different, almost unexpected. We made a decision to follow a historically bad program in Wake Forest in a city extremely similar to Akron. The product wasn't always great on the field, but the gameday experience is almost always good.  Even in the bad years, they were still pulling in 15-20,000 per game in their 30,000 seat stadium.

 

I've said it before, I'll say it a thousand times. There is nothing Wake does that Akron can't do. Akron needs to stop being this terrible on the field and the game day experience. From what I read here, the gameday experience can only be described as a joke. It doesn't have to be. It isn't that hard to create a good experience for someone at a game. 

 

My experience tells me if a group of fans can at least be given a nice day regardless of the game outcome, they will come back, and when the team gets good they are excited come back. That's where Akron needs to get to. 

[Spin]

1 hour ago, zippy-claws said:

 

So that's my "more-than-two-cents" worth.  I'm sure I've given enough ammo for some of you to tear into me and tell me where I'm wrong, but the premise was to offer "thoughts" on the State of Athletics....and these are mine.

 

This forum has had its moments over the years, and someone my disagree on one or two of the dozens of good points you brought up. But I doubt, taken as a whole, your post shouldn’t warrant a ballistics vest. 🙂

[clarkwgriswold]

I wouldn't be surprised to hear the teachers' union start back on its attack of the costs of the football program as it did in 2020.  The University did a decent job of explaining the costs of leaving the MAC and/or dropping to FCS then, but I could see the continued floundering of the program opening the door to this critique again. 

[GP1]

1 hour ago, clarkwgriswold said:

I wouldn't be surprised to hear the teachers' union start back on its attack of the costs of the football program as it did in 2020.  The University did a decent job of explaining the costs of leaving the MAC and/or dropping to FCS then, but I could see the continued floundering of the program opening the door to this critique again. 

The professors are making a badly informed argument, or they are Nihilists and just want to blow athletics up without out any idea of what comes next. We are living in very Nihilistic times. 

 

Akron isn't changing conferences, it isn't changing divisions and the football team isn't dropping down unilaterally. None of these actions are necessary and any one will negatively impact the athletic department. This is what Akron needs to do, FIX THE FREAKING FOOTBALL PROGRAM!!!!!!!  Everything else will work itself out. 

[LoyalZIP]

Our current faculty athletics rep is very strong. Dr. Matt Juravich. Very impressive guy, he does a great job of bridging the “gap” between athletics and the rest of the U. 

[clarkwgriswold]

Here's the school's summary of the argument from 2020-

 

https://www.uakron.edu/president/news-and-messages/response-about-athletics

Edited October 23, 2023 by clarkwgriswold

[GP1]

22 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

Here's the school's summary of the argument from 2023-

 

https://www.uakron.edu/president/news-and-messages/response-about-athletics

Regardless of on field outcomes, if the University was doing a better job of making athletics benefit the athletes students alumni fans and general community, notes from the faculty like this would make them look even more foolish than they already do. It would make a monitary argument look shortsighted and foolish. 

[clarkwgriswold]

46 minutes ago, GP1 said:

Regardless of on field outcomes, if the University was doing a better job of making athletics benefit the athletes students alumni fans and general community, notes from the faculty like this would make them look even more foolish than they already do. It would make a monitary argument look shortsighted and foolish. 

Agreed, the argument is shortsighted, yet, at the end of the day, in today's world simple appeals to people and there's no simpler argument than "you paid $X million dollars for 6 wins since 2019?"

[GP1]

11 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Agreed, the argument is shortsighted, yet, at the end of the day, in today's world simple appeals to people and there's no simpler argument than "you paid $X million dollars for 6 wins since 2019?"

It's evidence nobody listens to college professors after the age of 24.