Big East update

[UAZipster0305]

23 hours ago, Zip_ME87 said:

 

I respectfully disagree. The extra minutes are a lot of wear and tear on our players in a compressed season. We'd likely see more injuries.

 

I also respectfully disagree. The extra minutes reward a team with a deeper bench or more fitness, both of which mitigate injuries. It's up to the coach to manage these risks appropriately.

[fknbuflobo]

3 hours ago, UAZipster0305 said:

I also respectfully disagree. The extra minutes reward a team with a deeper bench or more fitness, both of which mitigate injuries. It's up to the coach to manage these risks appropriately.

For mere entertainment value, bring on the Extra Time.  But the fact is that two 10 minute halves of ET rarely breaks the tie.  Both sides usually just hunker down and wait for the end.  The NCAA discovered a few years ago that the score at end of regulation usually is the score at FT.  A longer ET may (or may not) render different results.  But the season is already extremely compact.  The extra strain on players, fans, and infrastructure was correctly identified as a negative cost/benefit.

[UAZipster0305]

15 hours ago, fknbuflobo said:

For mere entertainment value, bring on the Extra Time.  But the fact is that two 10 minute halves of ET rarely breaks the tie.  Both sides usually just hunker down and wait for the end.  The NCAA discovered a few years ago that the score at end of regulation usually is the score at FT.  A longer ET may (or may not) render different results.  But the season is already extremely compact.  The extra strain on players, fans, and infrastructure was correctly identified as a negative cost/benefit.

That's the nature of soccer. It's low scoring in general, so with only 22% (20/90) additional time, a goal to break the tie is not expected, unless one team is really dominant. I still say play the ET. I don't show up to watch the Zips tie, I watch to see them win, especially against high caliber opponents. Even as a player, I play to win and would choose the ET. Nobody plays to tie unless they are an inferior opponent.

Edited November 7 by UAZipster0305

[zippy-claws]

1 hour ago, UAZipster0305 said:

Nobody plays to tie unless they are an inferior opponent.

Now I respectfully disagree.  You must not watch a lot of international "football", because the "draw" is an important factor in most European and South American leagues, where there are no playoffs, just a table where the single point for a draw makes a huge difference in a lot of standings.  And yes, there are "inferior" opponents in most of these leagues, as 2-3 monied teams dominate a 20-team league.  So a draw between say Brentford and Manchester City is considered a "win" by the Brentfordites, and by the pundits and supporters, and plays into the strategies involved.

[UAZipster0305]

2 hours ago, zippy-claws said:

Now I respectfully disagree.  You must not watch a lot of international "football", because the "draw" is an important factor in most European and South American leagues, where there are no playoffs, just a table where the single point for a draw makes a huge difference in a lot of standings.  And yes, there are "inferior" opponents in most of these leagues, as 2-3 monied teams dominate a 20-team league.  So a draw between say Brentford and Manchester City is considered a "win" by the Brentfordites, and by the pundits and supporters, and plays into the strategies involved.

I watch a TON of European football. The argument for ties in such leagues are much different because it is a table format with other simultaneous competitions such as Champions and Europa leagues, domestic cups, and international team games and tournaments. Players and even entire rosters need the rest. Also, very few inferior European teams "park the bus" to play for a tie for fear of being shamed. Instead, nearly all try to score on fast counterattacks with only 2-4 players committed offensively.

 

The comparison is not relevant to NCAA soccer. NCAA teams literally play only ~20 games per year, and I have watched many Zips' opponents put all 11 players within 35 yards of goal. It's the epitome of boring and pathetic. From a fan's perspective, and specific to this season, I much would have preferred to risk losing and play OT against Notre Dame, Western Michigan, and Cleveland State. Notre Dame and Western Michigan were top 5 teams at the time, and wins for us would have meant much more than ties...and who wouldn't want to watch more competition between some of the best teams in the country?! Again, nobody plays to tie unless they are an inferior opponent...it's a loser's mentality.

 

 

Edited November 7 by UAZipster0305

[fknbuflobo]

49 minutes ago, UAZipster0305 said:

I watch a TON of European football. The argument for ties in such leagues are much different because it is a table format with other simultaneous competitions such as Champions and Europa leagues, domestic cups, and international team games and tournaments. Players and even entire rosters need the rest. Also, very few inferior European teams "park the bus" to play for a tie for fear of being shamed. Instead, nearly all try to score on fast counterattacks with only 2-4 players committed offensively.

 

The comparison is not relevant to NCAA soccer. NCAA teams literally play only ~20 games per year, and I have watched many Zips' opponents put all 11 players within 35 yards of goal. It's the epitome of boring and pathetic. From a fan's perspective, and specific to this season, I much would have preferred to risk losing and play OT against Notre Dame, Western Michigan, and Cleveland State. Notre Dame and Western Michigan were top 5 teams at the time, and wins for us would have meant much more than ties, and who wouldn't want to watch more competition between some of the best teams in the country?! Again, nobody plays to tie unless they are an inferior opponent...it's a loser's mentality.

 

 

We shall agree to disagree.  As a self-styled football purist, I do not at all mind the strategic draw, regardless of the motivation.  The objective is winning the league over winning the individual contest.  Your point that this is less relevant in NCAA must be taken, I concede.

 

 Straying from the traditional path on one important detail, I strongly endorse the NCAA Sudden Death format in tournament scenario.  It is both definitive and exhilarating!

[UAZipster0305]

8 minutes ago, fknbuflobo said:

We shall agree to disagree.  As a self-styled football purist, I do not at all mind the strategic draw, regardless of the motivation.  The objective is winning the league over winning the individual contest.  Your point that this is less relevant in NCAA must be taken, I concede.

 

 Straying from the traditional path on one important detail, I strongly endorse the NCAA Sudden Death format in tournament scenario.  It is both definitive and exhilarating!

Let's both agree then on our endorsement of Sudden Death for NCAA tournaments then! Cheers!!!

[Zip_ME87]

6 hours ago, UAZipster0305 said:

Let's both agree then on our endorsement of Sudden Death for NCAA tournaments then! Cheers!!!

I’ll disagree with both of you. Full 20 minutes of OT should be played as opposed to sudden victory which is a travesty to the sport like skipping OT and going straight to PKs, counting away goals as more than home goals, or the clock counting down rather than up.

 

 

Edited November 8 by Zip_ME87

[UAZipster0305]

15 hours ago, Zip_ME87 said:

I’ll disagree with both of you. Full 20 minutes of OT should be played as opposed to sudden victory which is a travesty to the sport like skipping OT and going straight to PKs, counting away goals as more than home goals, or the clock counting down rather than up.

 

 

Agree to disagree.

 

Why a full 20 minutes?

 

In my opinion, the teams had the opportunity to settle the scoreless tie that starts the game, and that opportunity was the full 90. Sudden death is an attempt to decide the game on the merits of field play rather than having to resort to penalty kicks. Like fknbuflobo said, I also appreciate the potential for injuries when additional time is added, which is another reason I think extra time should be limited to sudden death.

[Zip_ME87]

The game should be played by FIFA rules. 

[fknbuflobo]

5 hours ago, Zip_ME87 said:

The game should be played by FIFA rules. 

Maybe the only NCAA rule I like is Sudden Death OT. 

If I need to give up that one rule in order to adopt FIFA rules across the board, then so be it, I will.

[TennZip]

In the first Big East tournament game today,

 

Georgetown defeated Creighton 1-0

 

from the writeup and the stats, it looks like it was a very competitive game

Georgetown moves to the Big East semis and awaits the winner of the Akron-DePaul game

 

at 4:55 pm on Saturday, Georgetown is up to #8 in RPI

Akron is currently #29 in RPI

 

https://guhoyas.com/news/2024/11/9/mens-soccer-hoyas-down-creighton-to-advance-to-big-east-semifinal.aspx

[Let'sGoZips94]

40 minutes ago, TennZip said:

In the first Big East tournament game today,

 

Georgetown defeated Creighton 1-0

 

from the writeup and the stats, it looks like it was a very competitive game

Georgetown moves to the Big East semis and awaits the winner of the Akron-DePaul game

 

at 4:55 pm on Saturday, Georgetown is up to #8 in RPI

Akron is currently #29 in RPI

 

https://guhoyas.com/news/2024/11/9/mens-soccer-hoyas-down-creighton-to-advance-to-big-east-semifinal.aspx

 

Beat DePaul, beat Georgetown, and guarantee yourself a spot in the tourney. Ez pz.

[MDZip]

St. Johns beats Seton Hall 2-0 in the 3/6 matchup. 

[Let'sGoZips94]

 

 

 

[Zip_ME87]

Providence defeated UConn 2-0. 

[TennZip]

Semifinals matchups

RPI Ratings (as of 8 am Sunday nov. 10)

 

#15 Providence  vs.  #69  St. Johns

#9  Georgetown vs. #29 Akron

[Zipmeister]

On 11/8/2024 at 11:27 AM, UAZipster0305 said:

Agree to disagree.

 

Why a full 20 minutes?

 

In my opinion, the teams had the opportunity to settle the scoreless tie that starts the game, and that opportunity was the full 90. Sudden death is an attempt to decide the game on the merits of field play rather than having to resort to penalty kicks. Like fknbuflobo said, I also appreciate the potential for injuries when additional time is added, which is another reason I think extra time should be limited to sudden death.

Anyone have access to stats which show more injuries occur per minute of OT vs per minute of. regulation time? .My guess is it doesn't happen.

[Zips1991]

So, with the win last night, do you guys think we're guaranteed a NCAA tourney spot even if we were to lose to Georgetown on Thursday? 

[Zip_ME87]

24 minutes ago, Zipmeister said:

Anyone have access to stats which show more injuries occur per minute of OT vs per minute of. regulation time? .My guess is it doesn't happen.

 

My point wasn't that more injuries occur during OT, but that the NCAA soccer season is so compressed, our team sometimes plays 3 games in the span of a week. That's a lot of wear and tear with little time for recovery which leads to nagging injuries. Some of our players are nursing injuries and playing through them now. OT does not guarantee additional wins.

 

[Zip_ME87]

3 hours ago, Zips1991 said:

So, with the win last night, do you guys think we're guaranteed a NCAA tourney spot even if we were to lose to Georgetown on Thursday? 

 

Guaranteed would be difficult to predict, but chances are good with our Zips ranked #29 and the Hoyas #8 in RPI. Have to play well, which I'm confident in our team. Intangibles, such as referee who over or under controls the game, concern me. Playing in Georgetown's backyard is also a concern, but I would suggest our Zips look at 2018 ... MAC Tournament in Morgantown and NCAA Tournament matches at Syracuse, at Wake Forest and at Stanford. Tough places to play, but those Zips were on a roll, not to be denied and got it done.

 

 

Edited November 10 by Zip_ME87

[TennZip]

3 hours ago, Zipmeister said:

Anyone have access to stats which show more injuries occur per minute of OT vs per minute of. regulation time? .My guess is it doesn't happen.

Overtime also provides more time to accumulate yellow cards.   Asst. coach Michael Nanchoff said this week that the zips had their 4 defensive back line starters playing with 4 yellows (on each player) in the last game against UConn.   Playing overtime games might have caused some zips to accumulate 5 yellows and have to miss an entire game.

[NYC ZIP]

I would also hope  that best case, a win against Georgetown and a win against Providence may get the Zips a top 16 first round bye. If not, because the seeding outside the top 16 is based on proximity, we could possibly get Dayton, Dusquesne, Western Michigan, Michigan, or IU

[Reslife4Life]

Not Big East, but Western Michigan who was the 4 seed lost in the MVC quarterfinals this morning

[UAZipster0305]

50 minutes ago, NYC ZIP said:

I would also hope  that best case, a win against Georgetown and a win against Providence may get the Zips a top 16 first round bye. If not, because the seeding outside the top 16 is based on proximity, we could possibly get Dayton, Dusquesne, Western Michigan, Michigan, or IU

I think there's a case to be made that even if we lose to Georgetown by 1, especially if Georgetown go on to win the Big East Tournament, that we should get serious consideration for a top 16 seed. Will we get it?...likely not, but a case can and should be made.

Edited November 10 by UAZipster0305