Game 3- Penn State- Shenago

[Captain Kangaroo]

I think I made the right choice attending the Midget Mania Wrestling event at the Barley House tonight. 

[Let'sGoZips94]

Did we learn anything about Brisco or Barre?

[Illini Zip]

6 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Did we learn anything about Brisco or Barre?

One has to think that with the limited playing time through 3 games these 2 big guys will have little impact on the Purdue game. Or is that what Groce wants Matt Painter to think.
Hmmm. 🧐🥸🤫

 

Edited yesterday at 11:25 AM by Illini Zip

[Blue & Gold]

There were no takeaways from the game last night. PSU-S was terribly undersized. They had 3 nice, smallish, guards but that's it. Their best player, #0, was only 5'8" but could shoot the lights out. He was a chucker for sure.

Edited yesterday at 11:55 AM by Blue & Gold

[clarkwgriswold]

7 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I think I made the right choice attending the Midget Mania Wrestling event at the Barley House tonight. 

 

9 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

There were no takeaways from the game last night. PSU-S was terribly undersized. They had 3 nice, smallish, guards but that's it. Their best player, #0, was only 5'8" but could shoot the lights out. He was a chucker for sure.

 

So the two events were not that dissimilar.

[clarkwgriswold]

7 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Did we learn anything about Brisco or Barre?

As Blue & Gold stated, there wasn't a whole lot that could be taken away because of the size and talent disparity, but they both looked okay. Brisco is definitely a big body but I wonder if he can get up and down the court in the way that this offense demands of its big men.  Barre appears to have the ability to get up and down, and I understand that is why he was brought in, however, the results have yet to be seen.

[Reslife4Life]

9 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Did we learn anything about Brisco or Barre?

I will say that neither of them had particularly great hands last night. But yes as previously stated when Barre was in the game he might've been 6 inches taller than anyone on the other team, he made 3 or 4 standing layups with very little effort

[Let'sGoZips94]

Since we didn't learn anything new, at least nobody got hurt. Onto actual Purdue (not Purdue Polytechnic).

[Illini Zip]

1 hour ago, Reslife4Life said:

I will say that neither of them had particularly great hands last night. But yes as previously stated when Barre was in the game he might've been 6 inches taller than anyone on the other team, he made 3 or 4 standing layups with very little effort

That was one of things I loved about Freeman early on. Of course, Freeman’s list of accomplishments went through the roof and it was easy to take that quality for granted. Hopefully our guys just need to get some reps and work out any jitters. 

[Illini Zip]

13 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

As Blue & Gold stated, there wasn't a whole lot that could be taken away because of the size and talent disparity, but they both looked okay. Brisco is definitely a big body but I wonder if he can get up and down the court in the way that this offense demands of its big men.  Barre appears to have the ability to get up and down, and I understand that is why he was brought in, however, the results have yet to be seen.

Good post. I just want to launch a conversation off of it. 
 

We have had a few centers at Akron during Groce’s era similar to Barre. Tall, mobile, shot blocker type; Riak, Aziz and briefly Gueye.
 

The other type of center we are accustomed to obviously is the Freeman type. Very versatile, athletic and skilled with more of a power forward frame. You can add Sayles, Lyles and now Marvin to that list. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Oggie play the 5 spot in time as well. 

 

But the last center type we are not too familiar with at Akron is what I call the “earth mover” center. I witnessed it with Illinois. They are big, strong and weigh about 250lb. They typically range between 6-8 and 6-10, but have a low center of gravity. They are immovable objects. The only guy that has fit this description was Kostelac. They are less versatile and athletic, but can be highly skilled and effective in Groce’s system. They don’t run the break as fast as the others, but they do run the court. Brisco is an earth mover. We have had other MAC teams use earth mover centers against us recently. I don’t remember their names, but the Zips recruited one of them. Any way it will be nice to have a big body to throw out there during those match-ups especially.
 

Personally, I would like to see Brisco cut his teeth with some time against the 6-11 big for Purdue. And I would let Barre get some time against their 7-4 center. The rest of the time I would play small with Lyles and let their bigs chase us up and down the court. 
 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Illini Zip

[Illini Zip]

11 hours ago, Illini Zip said:

Good post. I just want to launch a conversation off of it. 
 

We have had a few centers at Akron during Groce’s era similar to Barre. Tall, mobile, shot blocker type; Riak, Aziz and briefly Gueye.
 

The other type of center we are accustomed to obviously is the Freeman type. Very versatile, athletic and skilled with more of a power forward frame. You can add Sayles, Lyles and now Marvin to that list. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Oggie play the 5 spot in time as well. 

 

But the last center type we are not too familiar with at Akron is what I call the “earth mover” center. I witnessed it with Illinois. They are big, strong and weigh about 250lb. They typically range between 6-8 and 6-10, but have a low center of gravity. They are immovable objects. The only guy that has fit this description was Kostelac. They are less versatile and athletic, but can be highly skilled and effective in Groce’s system. They don’t run the break as fast as the others, but they do run the court. Brisco is an earth mover. We have had other MAC teams use earth mover centers against us recently. I don’t remember their names, but the Zips recruited one of them. Any way it will be nice to have a big body to throw out there during those match-ups especially.
 

Personally, I would like to see Brisco cut his teeth with some time against the 6-11 big for Purdue. And I would let Barre get some time against their 7-4 center. The rest of the time I would play small with Lyles and let their bigs chase us up and down the court. 
 

 

I am following up my own post. Ha!!

 

I thought Brisco was going to be an explosive rebounder, power forward type. But Groce has said he will play strictly the center position. Well, he’s only 6-8 so he’s not a rim protector. All accounts say he moves slow and I watched him miss a dunk against Princeton. So he’s not going to be an athletic, jump out of the gym, Freeman type center. That only leaves the traditional, back to the basket, play under rim, earth mover type. He’s currently 240lbs. Maybe he gets to 245-250lbs by his senior year. The question I have is can he shoot at all away from the rim? Right now I believe he adds value by banging down low with the big boys and rebounding. Let’s see. 

 

I have posted this video link before of Maverick Morgan at Illinois under Groce. He was 6-10 and maxed out at 250lbs. This video is from his Junior year without a redshirt year. So he was even bigger as a senior. Notice how like a big tight end in football he gravitates to the open holes in the defense. Not flashy, but effective.

 

 

 

[Blue & Gold]

Thus far it doesn't look like Brisco can shoot from the outside. Right now he just looks like a limited-minutes role player. Doesn't appear to have a very high motor, which is aggravating.

[clarkwgriswold]

I suspect Brisco was brought in at a time when it was anticipated that the program would continue in its traditional half court offense, where a less mobile big could succeed.  That's also when Okonkwo was brought in.  Groce then saw what he had personnel-wise and decided that up-tempo was the way to go.  Okonkwo adapted but was never completely that guy.  Barre was appealing in the portal as he is a guy who can get up and down.  I'm not sure Brisco is a fit in the offense as presently constructed.  However, at the same time, it's tough to judge the kid 12 minutes into his college basketball career.

[kreed5120]

20 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

I suspect Brisco was brought in at a time when it was anticipated that the program would continue in its traditional half court offense, where a less mobile big could succeed.  That's also when Okonkwo was brought in.  Groce then saw what he had personnel-wise and decided that up-tempo was the way to go.  Okonkwo adapted but was never completely that guy.  Barre was appealing in the portal as he is a guy who can get up and down.  I'm not sure Brisco is a fit in the offense as presently constructed.  However, at the same time, it's tough to judge the kid 12 minutes into his college basketball career.

 

This was kind of my thought process as well. Although at times you might need a big body enforcer type so there might be a game script that would call for him getting ~5 minutes of run time. That said, I wouldn't expect to see him in the rotation this year on a consistent basis.

[Illini Zip]

I differ just a bit. I think if Groce could dictate the style of play for every game it would be wide open and fast. He would play with 5 guards or 4 guards and an Oggie type wing. He has always been that way. We slowed the offense down because our best player was Freeman and Groce adjusts to his roster and the strengths of the competition. Now he is just getting back to his natural identity.
 

What I do agree with is Brisco will likely only get spot minutes this year and only when the matchup justifies it. Purdue is exactly why you need players like Brisco and Barre on your roster. Should be interesting to see how the staff approaches this challenge. For Brisco to ever play significant minutes he will need to grade out as a top producer in practice like everyone else.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Illini Zip

[Illini Zip]

3 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

Thus far it doesn't look like Brisco can shoot from the outside. Right now he just looks like a limited-minutes role player. Doesn't appear to have a very high motor, which is aggravating.

Bummer. I thought a high motor was a strength of his. He is still young and bigs take longer to develop. Hopefully he has a high ceiling and can hit the midrange shot.

 

Edited 28 minutes ago by Illini Zip