Game 2- Mississippi State

[Blue & Gold]

Good Groce teams are never big dominant. They have 6-8 bigs who can run... and ideally even the "bigs" spread the floor with their shooting ability. (Getting Sammy untracked will be absolutely vital going forward.)  Groce ideally needs 3 guards who can be consistent threats to shoot (and make) from distance (why losing Mikal Dawson is such a huge blow. I spoke to Dawson at the last soccer match & told him that losing his defense and 3-point shooting from the wing were going to be awfully tough to overcome.)  3 point shooting is the key for a Groce offense.  "Two for you but three for me."  Especially if we have a big who demands a double-team (a luxury which Groce never enjoyed at OU), we need our guards to be 3-point assassins. If this doesn't materialize we're going to be rather easy to defend. We saw that against SDSU. If X wasn't simply unconscious from behind the arc we lose that game as well.

 

If Sammy & Hankerson get untracked we'll be okay, though still lack depth.

 

Fortunately playing tough D is our #1 priority so we can always do that, regardless of whether our shots are falling on any given night.

 

Sorry to hear Nate Johnson was only 0-2. He seems to be who Groce is trying to plug into Dawson's role. Nate is supremely athletic, but young, and is still hesitant to shoot the 3 (during the SDSU game I saw Dawson talking to him saying "Those shots are there all night!").  Hopefully he finds his stride in the Cayman Islands & gains the confidence to just let it fly.

[LoyalZIP]

Barely D-1 is a wild stretch for Clarke and Tribble. While I agree their games should be further along offensively, they’re both really important and impactful players who’ve done a lot of winning here, including crucial plays during the championship season. Like Groce says, you need to be an NBA All-Star in your role. That will never be 3-pt sharpshooting for them. 
 

The 3-pt shooting isn’t something I’m too worried about. X, Hankerson, and supposedly Hunter, and sprinkle in a few other guys and it will figure itself out. I’m concerned about the lack of size and length. I wouldn’t call UA a small team, but they’re certainly below average, and they lack a big rim protector. Sammy Hunter could fit in that role, but I’m quite disappointed in what I’ve seen from him so far. That jumper looks like the same <30% jumper from Ole Miss. And when you’re playing a gigantic team like that, your stretch 4 must make shots. If he, X, and Hank would have each made another one or two in the first half, we may not have been so desperate looking in the second half. 
 

It’s a tough and disappointing loss for sure. And when you look down the line in the MAC, this is not going to be an easy feat at all. It’s going to be a battle for the next 4 months for this crown. Groce & Co. have their work cut out for them. 

[clarkwgriswold]

I was watching the Zips along with a high school football game last night so my eyes were not on every minute of the game.  However, it was obvious to me early on that Mississippi State was bigger, faster and more athletic than the Zips.  As such, I wasn't surprised or disappointed with the result.

 

Anyone who has watched this team for more than five minutes and looked at the MAC preseason teams knows that the Zips primary interior threat is Enrique, primary shooting threat is X and that Tribble is not a shooter.  Teams are going to double Enrique, run X off of the arc and sag off of Tribble to help.  It's the job of Groce and staff to figure it out and it is on the other kids on the team to step up to take the pressure off of Enrique and X.  Tribble is 21 years old, has been playing basketball for well over a decade and is in his 4th year of D1 basketball.  His shooting is not going to improve at this point.

[Blue & Gold]

Yeah, I shouldn’t have said that. It was early & I was cranky. I take it back. I’ll edit my post but it’s already been quoted a couple times.

[LZIp]

55 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

Yeah, I shouldn’t have said that. It was early & I was cranky. I take it back. I’ll edit my post but it’s already been quoted a couple times.

Bottom line is we need more from them. It’s their 3rd and 4th year in the program and while we always get continually good effort and defense from them, we need more on the offensive side on a consistent basis.

 

The fact is we were each their only D1 offer and they aren’t as complete a player as they should be.

 

it’s only two games in and I think the staff still has a lot to figure out as it comes to putting the pieces together, but unfortunately Hunter has given me vibes a lot closer to Maishe Dailey rather than X Williams. We can’t afford to have missed on him with the exodus of Ali, Kalle, and Aziz.

 

we need more form everybody on the team outside of X and Enrique right now. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by LZIp

[kreed5120]

2 hours ago, LZIp said:

 

The fact is we were each their only D1 offer and they aren’t as complete a player as they should be.

While I don't disagree with what you're saying and we certainly need more production out of them, I don't think the fact they had 0 other D1 offers matters much. Our best player was a former walk-on. Players fall through the cracks all the time. What I find concerning is that neither has improved much year over year

[LZIp]

1 hour ago, kreed5120 said:

While I don't disagree with what you're saying and we certainly need more production out of them, I don't think the fact they had 0 other D1 offers matters much. Our best player was a former walk-on. Players fall through the cracks all the time. What I find concerning is that neither has improved much year over year

Fair point for sure. 

[mrelegazna]

5 hours ago, LoyalZIP said:

I’m concerned about the lack of size and length.

Me too.  

 

I trust Groce, and he's forgotten more about basketball than I'll ever now.  I'm also a card-carrying member of the 3-pointer revolution.

 

But the thing about relying on the three pointer (because teams are double/tripling Freeman down low) is that off shooting nights, like last night, are gonna happen, regardless if more players besides Castaneda find their shooting stroke. 

 

Golden State can afford an off shooting night loss to Sacramento or a Game 2 loss in the WC semifinals.  A college team does not have that luxury, where every regular season loss effects tournament possibilities, and each team tournament game is win-or-go-home.

 

I think therefore multiple scoring options down low is a must.  We've had it in the past. This is, recruiting-wise, possible for us.

But will Groce ever recruit more than a minimal amount of frontcourt offense?  I don't know, but it was said in another thread that he recruits players that fit his system rather than building a system around the strengths of his recruits.  And his system seems like one that will have a hard time making that deep-ish Big Dance run we all dream of, where you have to beat a team or two of high-major size.

 

Side note, I still have a good deal of faith in Garvin Clarke.

[clarkwgriswold]

1 hour ago, mrelegazna said:

t know, but it was said in another thread that he recruits players that fit his system rather than building a system around the strengths of his recruits.  And his system seems like one that will have a hard time making that deep-ish Big Dance run we all dream of, where you have to beat a team or two of high-major size.

 

I think that John Groce recruits the best talent that he can bring to Akron, and that his primary qualification in doing so is that the player has the right attitude. There's no system model player as you can see between such different players as Clarke and Tribble.  The effective commonality between effective Groce players is attitude and "team-ism", not similar system skill sets.  He has every ability to adapt the system to his talent and has done so as that talent has changed during his tenure. If you don't have the right attitude and make it here, you don't last long, e.g. Cotton, wynn...

 

As for recruiting bigs, they're just aren't that many to go around. The talented bigs end up at power 5 conference schools, not the mid-majors. I'm confident that Groce would love to have that big man from Mississippi State, but that type of kid is not coming to Akron. He did recruit bigs at Illinois where he had the program and conference to lure those kids.  The bulk of talent available to programs like Akron are guards and wings and he is doing a fine job bringing those type of kids in.

[Bigzip1]

6 hours ago, LZIp said:

Bottom line is we need more from them. It’s their 3rd and 4th year in the program and while we always get continually good effort and defense from them, we need more on the offensive side on a consistent basis.

 

The fact is we were each their only D1 offer and they aren’t as complete a player as they should be.

 

it’s only two games in and I think the staff still has a lot to figure out as it comes to putting the pieces together, but unfortunately Hunter has given me vibes a lot closer to Maishe Dailey rather than X Williams. We can’t afford to have missed on him with the exodus of Ali, Kalle, and Aziz.

 

we need more form everybody on the team outside of X and Enrique right now. 

Where do you get your info from? You should do your homework on our players if you consider yourself a fan of Akron Basketball. 

[LZIp]

15 minutes ago, Bigzip1 said:

Where do you get your info from? You should do your homework on our players if you consider yourself a fan of Akron Basketball. 

If you're a fan of Akron basketball, you should be able to recognize the guards and wings outside of X need to start hitting some shots, including free throws. Has nothing to do with size Groce did or didn't bring in. Their job is easier with players cheating on Freeman. A few guys need to step up, or no tourney for us. 

[clarkwgriswold]

25 minutes ago, Bigzip1 said:

Where do you get your info from? You should do your homework on our players if you consider yourself a fan of Akron Basketball. 

LZip is a big fan and a regular and valuable contributor.

 

Would you like to enlighten us with the result of your homework (as opposed to just throwing out insults)? 

Edited November 12, 2022 by clarkwgriswold

[Bigzip1]

Hate when we lose and you guys just get on here spewing nonsense lol Hunter/Dailey comparisons are off they’re two completely different types of players and we’re only 2 games in so it’s too early to judge. If we’re being honest Groce has missed on recruits more often then not the past few years as we have players on scholarship that can’t crack the rotation. Aziz transferred in April they had the whole summer to fill that hole and never addressed it. I won’t tolerate the GT slander because he’s come in and contributed to winning as a 17-18 year old freshman and because he’s not a shooter has to take criticism. A player can shoot 10 3’s go 3/10 and be damn near considered a sniper lol you can’t even compare that to a player only taking 1-2 3’s a game. It makes a difference when coach gives you the ball and says take whatever shot you want.

[Bigzip1]

3 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

LZip is a big fan and a regular and valuable contributor.

 

Would you like to enlighten us with the result of your homework (as opposed to just throwing out insults)? 

Tribble had around 10 offers from schools like Toledo NKU Kent State IUPUI Ball state Youngstown state Stony Brook and OU when boals left Stony Brook to come OU there were a few others too.. Cincinnati, Morehead state, Chattanooga.. so saying he only had 1 offer is spreading misinformation. 

[clarkwgriswold]

24 minutes ago, Bigzip1 said:

Hate when we lose and you guys just get on here spewing nonsense lol Hunter/Dailey comparisons are off they’re two completely different types of players and we’re only 2 games in so it’s too early to judge. If we’re being honest Groce has missed on recruits more often then not the past few years as we have players on scholarship that can’t crack the rotation. Aziz transferred in April they had the whole summer to fill that hole and never addressed it. I won’t tolerate the GT slander because he’s come in and contributed to winning as a 17-18 year old freshman and because he’s not a shooter has to take criticism. A player can shoot 10 3’s go 3/10 and be damn near considered a sniper lol you can’t even compare that to a player only taking 1-2 3’s a game. It makes a difference when coach gives you the ball and says take whatever shot you want.

It's not slander to question Tribble's shooting.  His shortcomings there are obvious and you can see it in how he's defended.  However, Greg has other attributes that make him a valuable player on this team and I think the great majority of the posters on here recognize and appreciate his talents.  His defense, intensity and heart make him a vital contributor on this team.

[LZIp]

20 minutes ago, Bigzip1 said:

Tribble had around 10 offers from schools like Toledo NKU Kent State IUPUI Ball state Youngstown state Stony Brook and OU when boals left Stony Brook to come OU there were a few others too.. Cincinnati, Morehead state, Chattanooga.. so saying he only had 1 offer is spreading misinformation. 

I'll admit I didn't look and was going off of memory. I'd be skeptical how many of them were still recruiting him by the time he committed to Akron, as most offers were ~2 years earlier than that. Regardless of any of that, I root for any Zip who plays hard and shows good character, which both Tribble and Clarke do. I'm sure they both think they can and need to play better offensively. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by LZIp

[clarkwgriswold]

I think the real pressure is on Hankerson and Hunter to contribute offensively.  I have confidence in Hankerson as he's done it before.  If he gives the Zips the 11 ppg and 35% three point shooting he gave NIU last year, I will be content.  For me, the jury is still out on Hunter and I wonder if the transition to sometimes being the only big on the floor is hampering him.  I am encouraged by Groce's post game comments Monday that he's tearing it up in practice.

[LoyalZIP]

The thing that worries me about Hunter: He kills it in practice! That’s a verified fact from Groce and those close to the program. It hasn’t even come close to materializing through 2 games. Not time to panic yet, but he must be better. 
 

Dailey and Trimble were the same way, which is giving me early season PTSD. I talked to someone in the travel party earlier today (same person who told me before he played that Trimble was the best shooter to ever step foot in the JAR), I straight up asked if Hunter was another Maishe Dailey, and this person said that’s it’s a possibility. He absolutely brings it in practice, but has looked completely broken in games. Too early still, but not looking great. 

[Let'sGoZips94]

8 hours ago, LoyalZIP said:

The thing that worries me about Hunter: He kills it in practice! That’s a verified fact from Groce and those close to the program. It hasn’t even come close to materializing through 2 games. Not time to panic yet, but he must be better. 
 

Dailey and Trimble were the same way, which is giving me early season PTSD. I talked to someone in the travel party earlier today (same person who told me before he played that Trimble was the best shooter to ever step foot in the JAR), I straight up asked if Hunter was another Maishe Dailey, and this person said that’s it’s a possibility. He absolutely brings it in practice, but has looked completely broken in games. Too early still, but not looking great. 

 

So take this with a grain of salt?

[Blue & Gold]

Ugh. Sunday morning and I'm still awfully bummed about our showing Friday night. I had let myself believe our days of getting blown out by 20 to P5 teams was over. 

[LoyalZIP]

49 minutes ago, Let&#x27;sGoZips94 said:

 

So take this with a grain of salt?

Pretty much. But they are saying the same thing about Hunter, he (like Trimble) catches fire in practice but it’s not carrying over at all. 

[NWAkron]

13 minutes ago, LoyalZIP said:

Pretty much. But they are saying the same thing about Hunter, he (like Trimble) catches fire in practice but it’s not carrying over at all. 

I looked at 2019-20 box scores and X Wiilliams came out really hot in his first few games.  I can't imagine Hunter is another Maishe (the name we dare not speak) Daily.  Can there be more than one?

 

I also think Dawson would light it up in practice as well.  He had the green light from 3 as well but it took him awhile.

[LZIp]

As Clark mentioned, the guys we definitely need to step up the most right now are Hankerson and Hunter. They were brought in to score, no doubt. Hopefully the issue is that its just taking time to gel. I think that's a safe assumption for Hankerson as he's a proven MAC player. Hunter is a little more up in the air as he was well regarded out of high school, but didn't do much at Ole Miss. The reports of him tearing it up at practice are encouraging as a stretch 4 with his size would be tough for a lot of the MAC to deal with.

 

At the end of the day, we stand with a great mid-major win, and a disappointing loss to a team we were an underdog against,  one we clearly didn't play our best game. We will likely have more disappointing losses as the season goes on, it's the nature of college basketball. Lets just hope we start to gel so we can win a lot more than we lose!

Edited November 13, 2022 by LZIp

[1981 grad]

After being critical of the commentators, I have to say that they were right.  Akron looked tired in the second half.  We played high tempo defense the first half and the first part of the 2nd half but we looked tired after that and we got killed after the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half. 

 

We could not shoot the 3 ball and in our defense floundered after we got tired.  It is way to early to determine how the new additions to the team will fit in.  I was really hoping to see improvement from Clark and Tribble and thus far Tribble has struggled with his shooting.  I would love to see more arc on his shot but I think that ship has sailed.  Clark also cannot find his shot.  And when you consider that Hankerson and Hunter also have not been shooting the ball well we are going to lose by 20.  Lots of time for these players to find their shots. 

[LZIp]