UA to Renovate the JAR

[clarkwgriswold]

I would think the local governments down there are more likely to step up and help as the 13K a night at games coupled with hosting the opening round of the tourney benefits the local economy.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

Something to really make everyone angry:  http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/images/2016/06/09/2016_release_mens_basketball_attendance_final.pdf

 

You mentioned Wright State drawing north of 4K on average (compared to UA's 3300)... Dayton is somehow supporting UD @ avg of 13K per game and Xavier at 10K per game on top of Wright State.  

 

Kent's average is just a little over UA's.   Ohio is over 6K(!).

 

UA just has not established a deep supportive connection with the potential ticket buyer-- even though many of them are alums.  It's not winning-- no program has won in the MAC of late as we know.  My pov is that unless we are playing big name opponents, we won't get that attendance, which holds for football too.  Xavier and Dayton are programs w deep history that play at a very high level, so they draw 3x or 4x as much as we do even though they are a fraction of the size, with a fraction of the alumni base, and competing with each other...sucks   

 

 

[Blue & Gold]

6 hours ago, LosAngelesZipFan said:

Something to really make everyone angry:  http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/images/2016/06/09/2016_release_mens_basketball_attendance_final.pdf

 

You mentioned Wright State drawing north of 4K on average (compared to UA's 3300)... Dayton is somehow supporting UD @ avg of 13K per game and Xavier at 10K per game on top of Wright State.  

 

Kent's average is just a little over UA's.   Ohio is over 6K(!).

 

UA just has not established a deep supportive connection with the potential ticket buyer-- even though many of them are alums.  It's not winning-- no program has won in the MAC of late as we know.  My pov is that unless we are playing big name opponents, we won't get that attendance, which holds for football too.  Xavier and Dayton are programs w deep history that play at a very high level, so they draw 3x or 4x as much as we do even though they are a fraction of the size, with a fraction of the alumni base, and competing with each other...sucks   

 

 

Good post, LosAngelesZipFan.  If I can make one correction, Xavier is actually in Cincinnati as opposed to Dayton.  But your point still stands.  

[wadszip]

On May 16, 2017 at 0:06 AM, LosAngelesZipFan said:

Something to really make everyone angry:  http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/images/2016/06/09/2016_release_mens_basketball_attendance_final.pdf

 

You mentioned Wright State drawing north of 4K on average (compared to UA's 3300)... Dayton is somehow supporting UD @ avg of 13K per game and Xavier at 10K per game on top of Wright State.  

 

Kent's average is just a little over UA's.   Ohio is over 6K(!).

 

UA just has not established a deep supportive connection with the potential ticket buyer-- even though many of them are alums.  It's not winning-- no program has won in the MAC of late as we know.  My pov is that unless we are playing big name opponents, we won't get that attendance, which holds for football too.  Xavier and Dayton are programs w deep history that play at a very high level, so they draw 3x or 4x as much as we do even though they are a fraction of the size, with a fraction of the alumni base, and competing with each other...sucks   

 

 

You bring up some good points, but Xavier is in Cincinnati, so not really "Dayton" that is supporting them. But when you consider the Cincinnati-Dayton area has the three schools you mention, plus UC (without clicking on the link, but I'm guessing is also over 10,000) shows that Southwest Ohio is more crazy about college basketball than Northeast Ohio. 

 

Part, of that, however, is due to the region not having an NBA team, and in Cleveland's (TV market) case an NBA team that has been among the top 5 most popular in the league ever since LeBron was drafted. Even in the four years LeBron left, the Cavs still were in the top half in attendance and had some of the highest local ratings in the NBA. In the LeBron years, the Cavs have always been in the top five in attendance and have battled the Spurs, Thunder and now Warriors for the No. 1 spot in local TV ratings. I'll have to look up what the Cavs' final local ratings were this year, but saw a couple months ago, they were pulling in something like an 11 share locally, which is about 110,000 TV sets a night ... on top of the 20,562 that go to every home game (and they play 41 of those). 

 

There's only so much time people in NEO want to dedicate to basketball, and largely the area has chosen to invest it with the Cavs, and can you blame them? Consistently one of the best teams in the league with the best player in the world being from right here in Akron. It just is what it is. 

 

With that said, I think there is still potential if Groce builds a product that wins and wins in an exciting fashion where they could bump up to 4,000-5,000 consistently. But as long as Akron is in the MAC and the Cavs are winning, the school simply will have an attendance ceiling it will bump into.

 

EDIT: See B&G already pointed out Xavier.

Edited May 17, 2017 by wadszip

[kreed5120]

It would take tourney success IMO for us to crack a 4k average. 

[skip-zip]

On 5/16/2017 at 0:06 AM, LosAngelesZipFan said:

unless we are playing big name opponents, we won't get that attendance

 

That IS the difference between Akron's attendance, and Dayton's attendance.  No doubt.  But until I saw the numbers, I wouldn't have guessed that they outdraw us by 3 to 4 TIMES as many.  

 

18 minutes ago, wadszip said:

I think there is still potential if Groce builds a product that wins and wins in an exciting fashion where they could bump up to 4,000-5,000 consistently.

 

Well, there's a new theory about a solution to Akron's basketball attendance woes.  We just need to "win in a more exciting fashion".  I'll add that to the list.  That's worth a 50% jump in average attendance, according to your numbers?    

[skip-zip]

5 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

It would take tourney success IMO for us to crack a 4k average. 

 

Yes, that would be something that could significantly impact attendance.  

[LosAngelesZipFan]

Oops on location of Xavier... so SW Ohio is supporting Cincy (9415 avg), Xavier, UD, Wright St and Miami (and only Miami has crappy avg at 1426...how's that for a stmt about the MAC).   

 

I wonder if a deep run is transformational-- Kent did and didn't sustain a big bump in attendance.   

 

I wish we had some baller alums that would step up to pay enough to get 2 high quality, big name BB opponents and 1 big name for FB every year.

 

I wonder if OSU is as dominant in SW Ohio from a mindshare perspective as it is in NEO (obviously not as big a factor in BB as in FB).

 

 

 

 

[skip-zip]

18 minutes ago, LosAngelesZipFan said:

I wonder if OSU is as dominant in SW Ohio from a mindshare perspective as it is in NEO

 

Some of us have cited this before, along with the charts that show fan loyalty.  The Cincinnati Bearcats, in particular, have a favorable position in their area.  And the merchandise, radio ads, etc., that have created that anti-OSU culture has really helped their cause.  I'd love for us to model that mentality, but we have some other challenges that they don't have.  Like the level of competition we play.  

 

The one glaring difference in NE Ohio vs. SW Ohio is that there's more Suckeye alums in Cleveland than there is in any city besides Columbus.  That's yet another challenge that makes our situation a bit more difficult.  

[infofan]

The Canton Charge will reportedly relocate from the 5200 seat Civic center to the new $75 million 5500 seat Hall of fame village sports arena.  If anyone has seen the new (fawcett/Benson)stadium they know this new arena will be 1st class.  Just doesnt seem fair-Neither Akron or the university combined can afford such a building but the NFL and its owners are building one for Stark county.  

Edited May 26, 2017 by infofan

[K92]

19 minutes ago, infofan said:

The Canton Charge will reportedly relocate from the 5200 seat Civic center to the new $75 million 5500 seat Hall of fame village sports arena.  If anyone has seen the new (fawcett/Benson)stadium they know this new arena will be 1st class.  Just doesnt seem fair-Neither Akron or the university combined can afford such a building but the NFL and its owners are building one for Stark county.  

Perhaps the Zips should see if they could play home games there.

[LZIp]

19 minutes ago, infofan said:

The Canton Charge will reportedly relocate from the 5200 seat Civic center to the new 5500 seat Hall of fame village sports arena.  If anyone has seen the new (fawcett/Benson)stadium they know this new arena will be 1st class.  Just doesnt seem fair-Neither Akron or the university combined can afford such a building but the NFL and its owners are building one for Stark county.  

I believe the HOF is actually a separate entity apart from the NFL. I'm not sure how much, if any, support they are getting from Goodell and co. Akron can afford it with a small sales tax increase, but the voters didn't want it. Canton residents love the HOF.

[Let'sGoZips94]

Canton is working on building up the HoF and surrounding area. The plans for the retired player village will be a HUGE economic boost. They're also aiming to host the NFL Draft in the upcoming years (which is where it should be held EVERY year in my opinion). Nearly every penny they put into the area is well-warranted in my opinion. Not sure Akron would have NEAR the ROI if they built a new arena. Now, if the program starts winning some of these NCAA Tourney games and such, then we'll talk. 

[kreed5120]

I'm hoping with the new arena the HOF hosts an early season basketball tournament. If we can't get any teams of note to agree to come to the JAR, maybe we can agree to get them to play at a "neutral" location.

[ZippyRulz]

23 hours ago, infofan said:

The Canton Charge will reportedly relocate from the 5200 seat Civic center to the new $75 million 5500 seat Hall of fame village sports arena.  If anyone has seen the new (fawcett/Benson)stadium they know this new arena will be 1st class.  Just doesnt seem fair-Neither Akron or the university combined can afford such a building but the NFL and its owners are building one for Stark county.  

 

Is the HOF Arena replacing the McKinley Field House? Or is Canton going to keep 3 large basketball venues around?

 

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by ZippyRulz

[skip-zip]

On 5/25/2017 at 10:23 PM, K92 said:

Perhaps the Zips should see if they could play home games there.

 

I made a post in this thread back on April 23rd, when this new Canton complex was first announced.  It said that the basketball arena was going to be configured inside a 100 yard indoor football complex.  

 

So, it made me think about exactly what you state above.  But beyond that I wondered.....

 

1) Could we have been more futuristic in our thinking, and build our Stiles Fieldhouse with that flexibility??

 

2) It made me think back to the mid-80's when we threw around the idea of a Syracuse Carrier Dome type facility here in Akron, which would have solved the aging Rubber Bowl problem, and the desire for a larger basketball arena, simultaneously.  

 

It seems like we are always missing the boat.   

[zippy5]

That place will probably really suck to watch basketball in when it's configured for it

[LZIp]

Yeah I am not sure I agree with saying we missed the boat on something when we have no clue how this will turn out and nobody else has done it. I think the Carrier Dome is horrible for a basketball game, btw. Although we will likely never need it, wasn't the Info constructed with futuristic thinking? Plenty of room for expansion, IIRC. And Skip, you are also assuming we had the money to somehow include a new arena when the fieldhouse was constructed and we didn't. I really don't see how combining a field house and an arena is some futuristic, cost-cutting trend that we missed out on.

Edited May 27, 2017 by LZIp

[Hilltopper]

The new video board at the JAR is going to be 21'x10' HD video. Also a new sound system.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Hilltopper

[RowdyZip]

23 minutes ago, Hilltopper said:

The new video board at the JAR is going to be 21'x10' HD video. Also a new sound system.

 

The current SD video boards are 7.5' x 10' so this should be a pretty remarkable difference.  Also, UA needs to update THIS.

[skip-zip]

1 hour ago, LZIp said:

Skip, you are also assuming we had the money to somehow include a new arena when the fieldhouse was constructed and we didn't. 

 

You'd be surprised if you had talked to some University officials around that time, and were told just how close the final construction costs were to even something as ambitious as an actual indoor football stadium.  

 

1 hour ago, LZIp said:

I think the Carrier Dome is horrible for a basketball game, btw.

 

You could be right on that.  I wasn't addressing how great it would be.  Just that there was an opportunity to combine uses.  

 

Could it be any different than how much everyone complains about the JAR?   I guess we can at least find comfort in the idea that it would have been larger.  

[kreed5120]

We don't need a larger arena. We can't even fill the seats we currently have.

 

Bigger doesn't mean better. Having 3500 fans show up to a 15k seat "Carrier Dome" would just kill any kind of atmosphere.

Edited May 27, 2017 by kreed5120

[skip-zip]

33 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

Having 3500 fans show up to a 15k seat "Carrier Dome" would just kill any kind of atmosphere.

 

Having most of the people in the JAR on any given game night playing on their phones kills atmosphere too 

 

But you're right.  The ultimate answer goes far deeper than just building a larger arena.  As much as I was excited at that time with everything that was happening, the Carrier Dome type facility was probably too ambitious.  But you do wonder if capitalizing on all of the basketball/football events of the time could have gotten us over that hump that we're still trying to get over today, in terms of drawing in the outside fringe of potential Akron fans.   

Edited May 27, 2017 by skip-zip

[K92]

I  know this will be unpopular. . .

 

If the Canton Arena turns out to be very nice, Akron needs to abandon all plans to sink any more money into the JAR, forget about a new arena (for now) and make a deal to play men's home basketball games in Canton.  Even if a Zips funding miracle happened tonight and the money was available for a new arena, 2 underutilized basketball arenas separated by 19.8 miles of highway is beyond a waste of money.

 

When the Canton Arena is deemed a piece o shyte in about 15 years we can build a new arena.  But we will still be broke.  Damn.

Edited May 27, 2017 by K92

[skip-zip]

We'll see how it turns out for Canton.   But, I can say that you certainly have an advantage when you are investing into something that's already been a proven major tourist attraction.