Zips at Houston — NIT Round 1

[Captain Kangaroo]

4 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Just to be the contrarian, a run by any MAC team would be good for the MAC.   That's the kind of visibility a conference needs to be on the radar for at large berths.

If Illinois State couldn't get an at-large bid this year, the MAC will never again get one.

[Captain Kangaroo]

11 minutes ago, lilroodude said:

That being said, I do respect OU and Buffalo for turning down the CBI/CIT/Vegas tournaments.

My opinion - I don't. 

 

I respect the Zips for turning one down a couple years ago when we were decimated by injuries. There was nothing left in the tank. But if you had a 20-win season, were healthy, and had the chance to win a tourney, why not play? The year we got dicked by the NIT, guys like Travis and Joyce would have killed for the opportunity to compete in any post-season tourney. 

 

I wouldn't want to be a fan of Programs whose athletic department is either too poorly funded to play in the post-season, or whose players feel they're "too good' to play in a "lesser" tourney,

[MDZip]

2 hours ago, NWAkron said:

http://m.chron.com/sports/cougars/article/UH-knocked-out-of-NIT-s-first-round-by-Akron-11005250.php#item-39786

 

This should in this thread.  A real article and not a staff report.  Good photo of Akron huddle 

Interesting the article was in the Chron as an homonym for how much of the rest of the MAC sometimes refers to us. Maybe the fix was in.  Also mildly interesting MAC connection since the UH coach, Kelvin Sampson was at Indiana with Senderoff when he got into some NCAA issues before coming to Kent.

Edited March 16, 2017 by MDZip

[tboned]

   
      

[K92]

4 minutes ago, tboned said:

   
      

[MDZip]

36 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

If Illinois State couldn't get an at-large bid this year, the MAC will never again get one.

Good article in Slate from Ken Pomeroy about why the deck is stacked so heavily against mid-majors.

 

Regardless of what system is used, humans need to be smarter about how to think about that system. It’s a mistake to ignore game location, and it’s a mistake to use arbitrary thresholds to bundle together quality wins and bad losses. Under the current process, when comparing teams of similar quality, you can throw out all the analysis of wins and losses and simply use the size of a school’s basketball budget as the tiebreaker. It works just as well.

[Dr Z]

3 hours ago, NWAkron said:

http://m.chron.com/sports/cougars/article/UH-knocked-out-of-NIT-s-first-round-by-Akron-11005250.php#item-39786

 

This should in this thread.  A real article and not a staff report.  Good photo of Akron huddle 

 

From Steve Gonzales of the Houston Chronicle. Sixteen more photos by Steve here.

 

 

I liked this one the best, result of a great pass. 

[Joe Akron]

3 minutes ago, MDZip said:

Good article in Slate from Ken Pomeroy about why the deck is stacked so heavily against mid-majors.

 

Regardless of what system is used, humans need to be smarter about how to think about that system. It’s a mistake to ignore game location, and it’s a mistake to use arbitrary thresholds to bundle together quality wins and bad losses. Under the current process, when comparing teams of similar quality, you can throw out all the analysis of wins and losses and simply use the size of a school’s basketball budget as the tiebreaker. It works just as well.

 

Now I see where EA got the idea for today's column.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2017/03/march_madness_2017_how_did_the.html#incart_river_index

 

Slate article on March 13, EA's on March 16.

[Let'sGoZips94]

1 hour ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

My opinion - I don't. 

 

I respect the Zips for turning one down a couple years ago when we were decimated by injuries. There was nothing left in the tank. But if you had a 20-win season, were healthy, and had the chance to win a tourney, why not play? The year we got dicked by the NIT, guys like Travis and Joyce would have killed for the opportunity to compete in any post-season tourney. 

 

I wouldn't want to be a fan of Programs whose athletic department is either too poorly funded to play in the post-season, or whose players feel they're "too good' to play in a "lesser" tourney,

 

These are universities first and foremost, no matter how hard the NCAA tries to turn them into athletically-funded businesses. In my opinion, if you aren't good enough for the NCAA or NIT, well, that sucks. Why use the funds to play in a Participation Trophy Tournament? Instead, allocate those funds into travel plans to play in a tournament the following season, or to travel and play a P5 school that could help you get into the NCAAs or NIT next year. 

 

The snub job by the NIT to not give the Travis/Joyce Zips a bid is the reason the 3 other tournaments popped up, and it's a completely different situation. To me, adding those tournaments and asking the universities to pay for the games isn't the answer; in fact, I think it's a cop-out to cover up for their garbage, corrupt postseason selection system. It sucks that Rome and Dru got screwed, but the answer isn't more postseason tournaments; the answer is to collectively challenge the selection process. Raise Hell in a professional manner. 

Edited March 16, 2017 by lilroodude

[kreed5120]

1 hour ago, Joe Akron said:

 

Now I see where EA got the idea for today's column.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2017/03/march_madness_2017_how_did_the.html#incart_river_index

 

Slate article on March 13, EA's on March 16.

Quote

Ball State's RPI was curiously high (77) for a team that defeated No. 1-seed Kansas (only lost three games all season) and No. 8-seed UCLA

 

Quote

Bowling Green (RPI 57) defeated NCAA Tournament bound Mississippi and Michigan and also played Washington

 

Quote

Kent returned its 2002 NCAA Tournament star, Antonio Gates, defeated Rhode Island and Boston College in non-conference, and stood 17-2 before Gates suffered a knee injury. Kent advanced to the MAC title game, with Gates, and stood 21-9 (RPI 77) after its loss to Central Michigan with its soon to be NBA lottery pick, Kris Kaman

 

Quote

Dan Dakich said. "And we had, I think, seven MAC guys who would play in the NBA on MAC rosters that year, too."

 

These are some of the examples of snubs we had in the early 2000s, but it also illustrates have far we've fallen as a conference. We no longer produce NBA players. Ball State alone beat a 1 seed and a 8 seed in the same season. This year arguably our best OOC win as a conference as a whole was Ohio knocking off NIT 6th seed GT. It just seems so many programs like Miami, Ball State, and Bowling Green who once invested in their basketball program quit caring

Edited March 16, 2017 by kreed5120

[skip-zip]

2 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

If Illinois State couldn't get an at-large bid this year, the MAC will never again get one.

 

They became only the 3rd team to NOT get an NCAA bid with 27 wins.  So, we can't deny that we know the magic historical number.  And NO TEAM with 28 wins has ever been left out. 

 

So, the formula seems pretty straightforward:

Unless there is a change in scheduling philosophy, just win 28 games (easily attainable this year with any combination of bad performances at home, and/or the road game at BG going the other way).

 

There's no guarantee with these committees.  But, I'd sure prefer to put ourselves in a situation where we'd be a historical omission, rather than throw my hands in the air and claim that we don't know how to get there.  And I'm not crying today if I am Illinois State.  They have 3 home games and a ticket to MSG waiting for them as their "consolation prize" for being recognized as missing the NCAA by a razor-thin margin.  I'd love to be in their position right now. 

 

[mivid12]

slate? omg

[Captain Kangaroo]

16 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I'll estimate the "crowd" at 1,531.

I was low - it was 1,928

 

Amazing the Coogs...a team that can't beat a MAC program at home, and can't get 2k fans for an NIT game... are getting a 60 million dollar arena upgrade. 

 

Tough situation for the NIT. The "marquee" name teams won't participate unless they get a home game. But if they give the mid-majors the higher seeds and home court, they'll get more money. 

 

TV mandates they give the P5 schools the home court. There's no 30-for-30 to run for the Zips prior to our games. Too bad...I'd take the Phi Sigs Strawberry Bash* over Phi Slamma Jamma anytime.

 

* UA old-timer reference alert

[skip-zip]

38 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I was low - it was 1,928

 

Amazing the Coogs...a team that can't beat a MAC program at home, and can't get 2k fans for an NIT game... are getting a 60 million dollar arena upgrade. 

 

Tough situation for the NIT. The "marquee" name teams won't participate unless they get a home game. But if they give the mid-majors the higher seeds and home court, they'll get more money. 

 

TV mandates they give the P5 schools the home court. There's no 30-for-30 to run for the Zips prior to our games. Too bad...I'd take the Phi Sigs Strawberry Bash* over Phi Slamma Jamma anytime.

 

* UA old-timer reference alert

 

Great post.  And it's not a new problem. 

 

Just look back at our first NIT win in 2006 (when Quade had to start at Center), playing the storied Temple program in Philadelphia in front of a whopping 1,017 attendees.

http://www.espn.com.au/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=260730218

 

And Temple's leading scorer that night has this to say:

"That's embarrassing, losing in the first round to Akron," 

 

I wonder if Houston felt the same way last night?  They both should be embarrassed about their turnout.  

Edited March 16, 2017 by skip-zip

[skip-zip]

By the way, Kudos to the old gray-haired lady in the first row at Houston who was on her feet the entire 2nd half waving to everyone to stand up.  We could use a few of those at our home games.  

[LZIp]

48 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I was low - it was 1,928

 

Amazing the Coogs...a team that can't beat a MAC program at home, and can't get 2k fans for an NIT game... are getting a 60 million dollar arena upgrade. 

 

It probably helps having donors like this in your back pocket.

[K92]

54 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I was low - it was 1,928

 

Amazing the Coogs...a team that can't beat a MAC program at home, and can't get 2k fans for an NIT game... are getting a 60 million dollar arena upgrade. 

 

Tough situation for the NIT. The "marquee" name teams won't participate unless they get a home game. But if they give the mid-majors the higher seeds and home court, they'll get more money. 

 

TV mandates they give the P5 schools the home court. There's no 30-for-30 to run for the Zips prior to our games. Too bad...I'd take the Phi Sigs Strawberry Bash* over Phi Slamma Jamma anytime.

 

* UA old-timer reference alert

I heard National Geographic was working on a Kathryn Place Block Party documentary, though.

[morris buttermaker]

4 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I wouldn't want to be a fan of Programs whose athletic department is either too poorly funded to play in the post-season, or whose players feel they're "too good' to play in a "lesser" tourney,

 

Akron is, and has been both of those.

[Steve1982]

I was discussing the MAC being a one team NCAA league with an old Akron guy who now happens to live in Houston. His comment was the same about the Cougars as we all say about the ZIps. That is a need to upgrade their OOC schedule. He said they get one or two SEC games a year and hopefully pick up someone decent in a tournament but for the most part it sounds just like a weak Zips OOC schedule. So... how about picking up Houston home/home for future schedules since we are in the same boat? Not the P5 everyone wants but certainly better pick up than Hampton.

 

[LZIp]

3 minutes ago, Steve1982 said:

I was discussing the MAC being a one team NCAA league with an old Akron guy who now happens to live in Houston. His comment was the same about the Cougars as we all say about the ZIps. That is a need to upgrade their OOC schedule. He said they get one or two SEC games a year and hopefully pick up someone decent in a tournament but for the most part it sounds just like a weak Zips OOC schedule. So... how about picking up Houston home/home for future schedules since we are in the same boat? Not the P5 everyone wants but certainly better pick up than Hampton.

 

+1. I think it was mentioned on here before, but Illinois State concedes that they did not make the tournament because of their schedule and made an open plea on twitter for teams to schedule them. Ole Miss reached out right away. We should too. Seems like it would be mutually beneficial for both programs.

[Sportsjunkie330]

56 minutes ago, Steve1982 said:

how about picking up Houston home/home for future schedules since we are in the same boat? Not the P5 everyone wants but certainly better pick up than Hampton.

 

 

Winning last night sure didn't help our plea for these types of games..... UA just became even more "poisonous." 

[Captain Kangaroo]

1 hour ago, morris buttermaker said:

 

Akron is, and has been both of those.

Not true. Dambrot said Akron ponied-up the money host an NIT game. But we didn't get picked.

 

In the past, we paid to host a CBI game.

 

Yes, we've had players that mailed-it-in, and didn't care that they were in a sub-Big Dance tourney. A couple times. But the Zips still competed in the tournaments. 

 

If a MAC program only wants to participate in the NCAA or NIT tourneys, they are going to skip the post season 95% of the time.

[UAZip0510]

I loved seeing Ivey, Williams, Dunn-Martin, and Utomi getting key minutes last night - they'll be very important moving into next year.

[UAZippers]

22 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

Not true. Dambrot said Akron ponied-up the money host an NIT game. But we didn't get picked.

 

In the past, we paid to host a CBI game.

 

Yes, we've had players that mailed-it-in, and didn't care that they were in a sub-Big Dance tourney. A couple times. But the Zips still competed in the tournaments. 

 

If a MAC program only wants to participate in the NCAA or NIT tourneys, they are going to skip the post season 95% of the time.

We have declined the postseason as recently as 2015.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2015/03/akron_declines_postseason_bid.html

[Dr Z]