Search For The Next Head Coach

[MDZip]

25 minutes ago, lilroodude said:

 

 

 

Funny that you chose that particular video for the goal. I happen to be the one who shot and posted that video. That's me screaming like a banshee in it.

[Captain Kangaroo]

6 minutes ago, Gallucci said:

 

I am not sure I would say slight edge... MAC record: Groce 34-30, Dambrot 44-20

I think one can spin the numbers to suit whatever side of the fence they'd like.

 

I see a lot of people harping on Groce's 2011-12 3rd place finish in the MAC East. But they ignore the fact that he won 29 games that season. Dambrot won 22.

 

People say OU got lucky, winning the MAC tourney when the Zips missed an open 15-footer. But they ignore the 2009 NCAA-qualifying Zips, who were bailed out by Brett McKnight's miracle save & toss to Humpty for a buzzer-beating three that saved Dambrot from losing to the #12 seed Toledo in the opening round.

 

See what you want, I guess.

[Gallucci]

6 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I think one can spin the numbers to suit whatever side of the fence they'd like.

 

I see a lot of people harping on Groce's 2011-12 3rd place finish in the MAC East. But they ignore the fact that he won 29 games that season. Dambrot won 22.

 

People say OU got lucky, winning the MAC tourney when the Zips missed an open 15-footer. But they ignore the 2009 NCAA-qualifying Zips, who were bailed out by Brett McKnight's miracle save & toss to Humpty for a buzzer-beating three that saved Dambrot from losing to the #12 seed Toledo in the opening round.

 

See what you want, I guess.

There is really nothing to spin with the MAC record, it is what it is. I am a big believer in conference record because it is common opponents and it is against programs playing on an equal playing field. 

 

As for luck, my point has been that there is some degree of luck that goes into this, for everyone! So while Dambrot had several breaks go both for and against him he consistently put his teams in position. My concern with Groce is that his league record over his career would indicate that he might have trouble consistently putting us in position to be successful.

[ZippyRulz]

12 hours ago, Z.I.P. said:

Now we know who to blame!  

 

It's all hearsay and rumors 

[Captain Kangaroo]

4 minutes ago, Gallucci said:

My concern with Groce is that his league record over his career would indicate that he might have trouble consistently putting us in position to be successful.

I think you also felt Rick McFadden should be the next Zips coach?

 

Compare McFadden's resume to Groce's.

 

McFadden - Akron assistant.

Groce - Butler, NC State, Ohio State assistant. Head coach - Ohio and Illinois.

 

In the 5 years Groce made the post-season (not including this season, where an interim coach finished the NIT), he's won at least one tournament game 4 times. Had he coached in the NIT this year, it would have been 5-out-of-6 seasons that he not only made the post-season, but advanced beyond the first round. 

 

MAC regular season titles are for Dambrot. Groce has consistently won where Dambrot rarely did...in the post season. 

 

I love the Lolla/Porter parallel drawn by MDZip. I think the Zips upgraded with Groce. 

[Balsy]

It looks like we're about to head down the road of "Dambrot built teams/schemed around winning the MAC regular season, while Groce and other coaches build/schemed to win the MAC Tournament" discussion.

[Gallucci]

10 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I think you also felt Rick McFadden should be the next Zips coach?

 

Compare McFadden's resume to Groce's.

 

McFadden - Akron assistant.

Groce - Butler, NC State, Ohio State assistant. Head coach - Ohio and Illinois.

 

In the 5 years Groce made the post-season (not including this season, where an interim coach finished the NIT), he's won at least one tournament game 4 times. Had he coached in the NIT this year, it would have been 5-out-of-6 seasons that he not only made the post-season, but advanced beyond the first round. 

 

MAC regular season titles are for Dambrot. Groce has consistently won where Dambrot rarely did...in the post season. 

 

I love the Lolla/Porter parallel drawn by MDZip. I think the Zips upgraded with Groce. 

Yes I would have been happy with McFadden, but mostly wanted someone who had been a part of the success during the Dambrot era.

 

I have not denied that Groce had post season success at OU, I just don't believe that it is something that he can replicate (hopefully he can). But going off his track record it would be hard to imagine him having more regular season success than what Coach Dambrot had. Now some posters on here don't particularly value the regular season championship, and that's fine. I however think winning the MAC regular season is priority #1 every year 

 

[Gallucci]

7 minutes ago, Balsy said:

It looks like we're about to head down the road of "Dambrot built teams/schemed around winning the MAC regular season, while Groce and other coaches build/schemed to win the MAC Tournament" discussion.

Which would be a good discussion if it weren't for the fact that during his time Dambrot took Akron to more NCAA Tournaments than any other school in the league (Actually tied with Kent)

[Let'sGoZips94]

8 minutes ago, Gallucci said:

Which would be a good discussion if it weren't for the fact that during his time Dambrot took Akron to more NCAA Tournaments than any other school in the league (Actually tied with Kent)

Which is more of a sad statement than a positive one.

 

Dambrot - 13 seasons = 3 NCAA tournament appearances & 0 wins.

 

Groce - 4 seasons = 2 NCAA tournament appearances & 3 wins. 

 

Groce has more NCAA tournament wins than any MAC school in the last 15 years. Not to mention what he was about to do to the MAC with LeVert and Bradds. As someone else previously mentioned in either this thread or another thread: Groce was on the cusp of making the MAC his b*tch. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by lilroodude

[Captain Kangaroo]

13 minutes ago, Balsy said:

It looks like we're about to head down the road of "Dambrot built teams/schemed around winning the MAC regular season, while Groce and other coaches build/schemed to win the MAC Tournament" discussion.

Winning championships in any league with a relatively equal playing field is tough. MAC programs have an equivalent budget, talent pool, etc. And Dambrot was always at, or near the top of the MAC. He's a good coach. No one can deny it. 

 

But Groce is a different guy with different strengths. And those strengths have translated to consistent post season successes. That is something that eluded Keith Dambrot for 12 years. I will trade a MAC regular season championship for a 3rd place regular season finish and a nice post-season tourney run any day of the week.

[MDZip]

11 minutes ago, Gallucci said:

Which would be a good discussion if it weren't for the fact that during his time Dambrot took Akron to more NCAA Tournaments than any other school in the league (Actually tied with Kent)

Not that it matters a great deal but Keith's first year was 04-05 when Ohio won the tournament, so in Keith's 13 years Akron, Kent and Ohio all won it three times. I'm not going to run down Keith and his accomplishments nor am I ready to declare MAC dominance for the next ten years. But I am really intrigued.

[zippy5]

26 minutes ago, Gallucci said:

I however think winning the MAC regular season is priority #1 every year 

 

I am glad you aren't our AD

[Blue & Gold]

I love KD but we just took a step up.  I'll forever be grateful for what KD did for us at Akron.  We were a pretty lousy program when he took over.  He elevated us to being a top-tier, nationally-recognized mid-major program & his success put us in a position to make a hire like this.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Blue & Gold

[MDZip]

19 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

I love KD but we just took a step up.  I'll forever be grateful for what KD did for us at Akron.  We were a pretty lousy program when he took over.  He elevated us to being a top-tier, nationally-recognized mid-major program & his success put us in a position to make a hire like this.

Agreed also love some of the angst coming from Athens over it. Should make the rivalry even more fun. I loved one of their posters who stated the difference between Groce and Dambrot could be that they'd rather have Mr. March coaching than Mr. February. I think that was always what frustrated Zips fans, fantastic starts (with the exception you could almost always count on one head scratching early season loss) followed by fizzling finishes. But what really makes me want to have this work is the arrogance on the Ohio board. Most think we've made a good hire but some are convinced that because of facilities, city, "lesser education"  that Groce won't do as well as well here. Hate that elitist attitude, quite frankly education at most schools is what you make of it and almost every school is roughly equivalent now. There are really only a few true standouts. As though they are somehow the Ivy equivalent in the MAC. I will give them the Ivy equivalent of the Appalachians if it makes them feel better. And this from someone whom I may have mentioned had a great uncle who was once President of OU.

Edited April 5, 2017 by MDZip

[zippy5]

You'd think with all the advantages they think they have they would beat us a little more often

[Gallucci]

I am sure that Groce will be successful (to some extent), but I do think that some of you may want to temper your expectations. Especially if your barometer for success is NCAA tournament wins. Yes Groce won 3 NCAA tournament games at OU (as well as 1 at Illinois as a 7 seed) but if you were to ask me how many NCAA Tournament games Groce will win at Akron in the next 5 years I would say 0, and if you were to ask how many MAC Tournaments he will win I would say 1 or 2 tops. 

 

Basically I am just saying you might want to roll back expectations- it is incredibly hard to win in the NCAA tournament (especially as a low or mid major) so to expect that would be a little overoptimistic. Hope for it, yes. But to expect it because of his run at OU would seem to be a stretch. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Gallucci

[NWAkron]

14 minutes ago, Gallucci said:

 but if you were to ask me , and if you were to ask

 

 

We didn't.

[zippy5]

14 minutes ago, Gallucci said:

but if you were to ask me how many NCAA Tournament games Groce will win at Akron in the next 5 years I would say 0, and if you were to ask how many MAC Tournaments he will win I would say 1 or 2 tops. 

 

Sure sounds like what we got out of KD. If that's our floor, then I'm in.

[Blue & Gold]

16 minutes ago, Gallucci said:

I am sure that Groce will be successful (to some extent), but I do think that some of you may want to temper your expectations. Especially if your barometer for success is NCAA tournament wins. Yes Groce won 3 NCAA tournament games at OU (as well as 1 at Illinois as a 7 seed) but if you were to ask me how many NCAA Tournament games Groce will win at Akron in the next 5 years I would say 0, and if you were to ask how many MAC Tournaments he will win I would say 1 or 2 tops. 

 

Basically I am just saying you might want to roll back expectations- it is incredibly hard to win in the NCAA tournament (especially as a low or mid major) so to expect that would be a little overoptimistic. Hope for it, yes. But to expect it because of his run at OU would seem to be a stretch. 

 

[Zipgrad01]

13 minutes ago, Gallucci said:

I am sure that Groce will be successful (to some extent), but I do think that some of you may want to temper your expectations. Especially if your barometer for success is NCAA tournament wins. Yes Groce won 3 NCAA tournament games at OU (as well as 1 at Illinois as a 7 seed) but if you were to ask me how many NCAA Tournament games Groce will win at Akron in the next 5 years I would say 0, and if you were to ask how many MAC Tournaments he will win I would say 1 or 2 tops. 

 

Basically I am just saying you might want to roll back expectations- it is incredibly hard to win in the NCAA tournament (especially as a low or mid major) so to expect that would be a little overoptimistic. Hope for it, yes. But to expect it because of his run at OU would seem to be a stretch. 

You can make an uneducated guess, but history guarantees me how many NCAA tourney games we would win with Dambrot.... ZERO!!

 

I want nothing to do with Keith Dambrot or any of his assistants. He wanted a divorce and I am gladly giving it to him. 

[Captain Kangaroo]

17 minutes ago, Gallucci said:

if you were to ask me how many NCAA Tournament games Groce will win at Akron in the next 5 years I would say 0

If you asked me how many NCAA Tournament games Dambrot would have won if he coached at Akron another 13 years...I'd say 0.

[Gallucci]

3 minutes ago, Zipgrad01 said:

You can make an uneducated guess, but history guarantees me how many NCAA tourney games we would win with Dambrot.... ZERO!!

 

I want nothing to do with Keith Dambrot or any of his assistants. He wanted a divorce and I am gladly giving it to him. 

What is uneducated about it? All I have said about Groce is that for those of you expecting NCAA tournament wins you might want to dial it back

[Gallucci]

4 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

If you asked me how many NCAA Tournament games Dambrot would have won if he coached at Akron another 13 years...I'd say 0.

If I had to put money on it I would say 0 too  

[NWAkron]

14 minutes ago, Zipgrad01 said:

You can make an uneducated guess, but history guarantees me how many NCAA tourney games we would win with Dambrot.... ZERO!!

 

I want nothing to do with Keith Dambrot or any of his assistants. He wanted a divorce and I am gladly giving it to him. 

 I will take it further and say that if during the last 4 years someone said we could hire Groce in and fire Dambrot and his loyal drones I would have been all in with that, too.  Yes, Dambrot did make us an attractive program, but Groce is a step up.

Edited April 5, 2017 by NWAkron

[akronzips71]

This really comes down to recruiting.

KD recruited role players.

Get a big man, regardless of actual ability (Zeke, Hughes). Not that Zeke was not a great player, but he was a rim defender. Not too much offense, considering he was 7 feet tall. Tree was the inside offense in those days.

 

Big wings who were three point shooters (Reggie and Jake). But not much inside play. Role players.

 

Groce seems more likely to recruit ATHLETES. That makes a big difference in a tournament.

 

When George Young was the GM of the NY Giants, his philosophy was always to draft the best athlete available. LAWRENCE TAYLOR was the best athlete available. The rest is history.

 

IF Groce can bring in some good athletes, the rest will take care of itself.