Game 10—@Eastern Michigan Eagles

[zipsoutsider]

1 hour ago, UAZippers said:

You really dont understand why fans are mad at the 2 people in charge of the offensive gameplan that you admit was bad and did not put our players in a position to succeed?

I do not think they had a lot of choice in the gameplan. You seem to have pretty unrealistic expectations of what a freshman QB wuth nomial real game experience can and cannot do, well. 

 

Bowden bet that the best chance of winning was with the D. That seems pretty reasonable, given the situation. 

[NWAkron]

23 minutes ago, zipsoutsider said:

I do not think they had a lot of choice in the gameplan. You seem to have pretty unrealistic expectations of what a freshman QB wuth nomial real game experience can and cannot do, well. 

 

Bowden bet that the best chance of winning was with the D. That seems pretty reasonable, given the situation. 

Eh.  Whatever.  Our opinion doesn't much matter.   It's up to Williams, Green, and the Trustees.  That million from South Carolina may save our program...pay off the penalty for early term and have plenty leftover.

[zzx]

3 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

 

Regarding Ramart and the coaches: Woodson, 2014 against Ball State threw 1 TD and 4 INTs. Yesterday, Ramart threw 3 INTs and had 0 touchdowns. Say what you want, but we saw yesterday was a kid who had not taken many live snaps and a game plan that did not get him into any kind of rhythm.

 

despite the 4 int Woodson was 21 of 39 for 200 yards, and ramart was 4 of 15 for 29 yards -- big difference

Edited November 11, 2018 by zzx

[Lee Adams]

This is not about how many picks Woodson threw in any game. As I said earlier, do not hang this on Ramart. One game is not a career. What Bowden has not been able to do in 7 seasons is,

develop a consistently good offensive line(they do not have one now), develop any CONSISTENT running game (even though every week he keeps harping about having to run the ball),develop CONSISTENT discipline on the field(stupid penalties,blown assignments and the inability to develop a solid QB who can lead an offense(that's also another reason the OC has to come under some severe scrutiny). 

Maybe these guys will surprise and win out. But,as I also said earlier, the AD has to take responsibility for the call. The interim Prez is not likely to want to get involved. Hell' he's a Poly Sci guy.

[zipsoutsider]

2 hours ago, NWAkron said:

Eh.  Whatever.  Our opinion doesn't much matter.   It's up to Williams, Green, and the Trustees.  That million from South Carolina may save our program...pay off the penalty for early term and have plenty leftover.

It's a good thing....they have a better ability to see big piccture than some, here, who blame every single loss on coaching. 

[Zip JD]

1 hour ago, zipsoutsider said:

It's a good thing....they have a better ability to see big piccture than some, here, who blame every single loss on coaching. 

As Dennis Green said, "You are what your record says you are."

 

The anger isn't over the last game.  It's over several years of all the issues that previous posters have mentioned.  I am not blaming a frosh QB getting his first start.  He did the best he could.  I blame a coaching staff that does not have a viable back up on the roster and did not have the frosh ready to play.  We got 29 yards from our passing game.  I blame a staff that cannot recruit offensive lineman to a school with the best facilities in the MAC.  I blame a coach and OC that cannot establish a running game to help out a frosh QB in his first start.  Even giving TB a huge pass (which I do) for taking over the worst program in DI football, you cannot say this is a one game issue.  

 

I loved the TB hire and I thought he was the best coach available.  I do not love the terrible play calling and lack of solid game planning.  Our team discipline is poor and we seldom, if ever, make in-game adjustments.  I am not one who rushes to fire coaches.  There is no guarantee that next one will be better.  The guy most of ZN wanted before TB was hired declined to take an interview with us b/c the program was such a dumpster fire.  TB actually contacted us about the job or we probably would not have landed him.  I am ok if they fire him or if he comes back, but he has to have a new OC if he returns. 

 

The big question is this.  Do you really feel that the of development (or lack thereof) of the offense over the past several years warrants Milwee keeping his job?        

[zipsoutsider]

Whatever...the same people keep harping on the same points that we already have 2 other threads devoted to beating the dead horse. It really gets old. This is G5 life, folks. and it isn't going to change. The NCAA is content to let talented kids sit on P5 benches and never see the light of day while their coaches promise them a chance they will never get.

[ZipsVoice]

20 minutes ago, zipsoutsider said:

Whatever...the same people keep harping on the same points that we already have 2 other threads devoted to beating the dead horse. It really gets old. This is G5 life, folks. and it isn't going to change. The NCAA is content to let talented kids sit on P5 benches and never see the light of day while their coaches promise them a chance they will never get.

Well said outsider, on the talent left to sit on P5 benches.  It stymies me all the time, why....

[kreed5120]

15 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

It's a good thing....they have a better ability to see big piccture than some, here, who blame every single loss on coaching. 

Who do you blame it on? The refs? The coaches are the ones who recruit the players. The coaches are the ones responsible for developing the players. The coaches are the ones who make the game plans. The coaches are the ones who call the plays. This isn't the NFL where coaches have to coach the roster their GM provides them. Bowden and Milwee hand picked every player they have on the offensive side of the ball.

 

Edit: Nobody here is asking for Akron to be Ohio State or Michigan. We expect to be able to compete against the top echelon teams of the MAC, which we haven't been able to do and we're in year 7. Any other FBS school would fire a coach that has only had 1 winning season in 7 years, yet somehow the fans asking for change are the irrational ones? I'm done with discussion. Enjoy your 9AM tee time with Bowden & Milwee because clearly you guys must be best buddies to not see some sort of change is needed.

Edited November 12, 2018 by kreed5120

[Lee Adams]

23 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

It's a good thing....they have a better ability to see big piccture than some, here, who blame every single loss on coaching. 

Nobody is blaming'every single loss on coaching'. What objective fans are doing is looking at patterns over the past 7 seasons. Just because some think all fans are idiots doesn't mean its true. Some fans can actually watch ballgames and understand what is and is not happening. This is not personal for most folks. But after 7 seasons this program should not be losing its first two conference games. It should not be getting waxed by the NIU's MU's,UB's and EMU's. The offense should not be as pathetic as it has been. That is seen most markedly in the poor O-line play and lack of a running game. This is finally about being consistently competitive with the best programs in the MAC. Clearly this program is not.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Lee Adams
left out word

[Lee Adams]

On 11/11/2018 at 4:06 PM, zzx said:

 

despite the 4 int Woodson was 21 of 39 for 200 yards, and ramart was 4 of 15 for 29 yards -- big difference

Point?

[zzx]

22 minutes ago, Lee Adams said:

Point?

 self explanatory for most

[zipsoutsider]

 

11 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

Who do you blame it on? The refs? The coaches are the ones who recruit the players. The coaches are the ones responsible for developing the players. The coaches are the ones who make the game plans. The coaches are the ones who call the plays. This isn't the NFL where coaches have to coach the roster their GM provides them. Bowden and Milwee hand picked every player they have on the offensive side of the ball.

 

I guess I do bot have some psychological need to cast blame, I can accept that sometimes things work out beyond what can be mitigated. In other words, I am more pragmatic. Blame does not translate to accountability, it just transfers your responsibility for your emotional response to someone else. 

[72 Roo]

12 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

Who do you blame it on? The refs? The coaches are the ones who recruit the players. The coaches are the ones responsible for developing the players. The coaches are the ones who make the game plans. The coaches are the ones who call the plays. This isn't the NFL where coaches have to coach the roster their GM provides them. Bowden and Milwee hand picked every player they have on the offensive side of the ball.

 

Edit: Nobody here is asking for Akron to be Ohio State or Michigan. We expect to be able to compete against the top echelon teams of the MAC, which we haven't been able to do and we're in year 7. Any other FBS school would fire a coach that has only had 1 winning season in 7 years, yet somehow the fans asking for change are the irrational ones? I'm done with discussion. Enjoy your 9AM tee time with Bowden & Milwee because clearly you guys must be best buddies to not see some sort of change is needed.

 

Lee Adams said:
Nobody is blaming'every single loss on coaching'. What objective fans are doing is looking at patterns over the past 7 seasons. Just because some think all fans are idiots doesn't mean its true. Some fans can actually watch ballgames and understand what is and is not happening. This is not personal for most folks. But after 7 seasons this program should not be losing its first two conference games. It should not be getting waxed by the NIU's MU's,UB's and EMU's. The offense should not be as pathetic as it has been. That is seen most markedly in the poor O-line play and lack of a running game. This is finally about being consistently competitive with the best programs in the MAC. Clearly this program is not.

 

 

Kreed and Lee, will you two stop being so logical! Why don't we just lower our aspirations/expectations and then our FB coaches will look like geniuses. They then will meet the challenge of winning 4-5 games a year. Please don't mention the performance of PJ Fleck at WMU, Campbell and Crandle at Toledo, Dino Babers at BG, Lance Liepold at UB or any host of NIU coaches. That's discrimination to expect Akron with the best MAC facilities, a hotbed for recruiting and an upper level MAC football budget to produce teams like those coaches did. That's expecting too much.

 

I say we give the staff cupcakes after every game and medals to take home. Meanwhile let's expect excellence out of MSoccer, M & W Track and Field, M BBall, W Swimming, W Tennis and Rifle. They want to compete w/o excuses.  

[zipsoutsider]

When you listen to any analyst, outside of Akron, they pretty much rave at the success Bowden has had. 

 

But seriously, does every single thread have to be monopolized by the few with unrealistic expectations?

[Zip JD]

6 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

When you listen to any analyst, outside of Akron, they pretty much rave at the success Bowden has had. 

 

But seriously, does every single thread have to be monopolized by the few with unrealistic expectations?

TB is 34-49 at Akron and 23-31 in the MAC during his tenure (27-49 against DI opponents).  He has had one winning season in seven and is most likely going to miss being bowl eligible this season.  I do not think that expecting more than a .409 winning percentage is unreasonable (.355 against DI opponents).  Nobody expects us to be 12-0 or to crash the playoffs, we just want a team that does not get blown out by 4-6 Miami on our own field.  

 

Again, I never said fire him, but they have to make some changes to his staff and/or his recruiting procedures.  We cannot compete with average MAC teams and that is a problem.  If TB comes back next year with the current roster and staff what do expect the team to be?  Another 5-7 season? 

 

[kreed5120]

11 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

 

I guess I do bot have some psychological need to cast blame, I can accept that sometimes things work out beyond what can be mitigated. In other words, I am more pragmatic. Blame does not translate to accountability, it just transfers your responsibility for your emotional response to someone else. 

We're losing to the upper echelon MAC by 2-3+ plus touchdowns. That isn't because a ball slipped out of someones hand or took a funny bounce. It comes down to the fact Buffalo and all the other teams that have given us a whacking had supremely more talent. I'm not sure if this is a recruiting issue or talent development issue or both. Either way this is 100% on the coaching at the collegiate level. Insanity is described as doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different result. Through 7 years of this staff they have shown they haven't been able to field a serious MAC contender. That's an eternity in the world of sports. Expecting them to some how figure it out in year 8 or 9 is insane.

[GJGood]

I actually believe that Bowden has put us in position to compete with the middle and upper echelons of the MAC when everything goes as planned. We have beaten the likes of WMU and Ohio with Bowden, as well as having some bigger name wins over Pitt and Northwestern. We also can claim a division championship and a bowl victory. The problem as I see it is the inability of the team to adjust once the unexpected happens. Once we lose a player to injury it seems like the "next man up" is almost always a dramatic step down. It doesn't seem like it works that way for the upper echelon MAC programs. That is clearly on the coaches and how the players are being developed, or more precisely how quickly they are being developed.

 

I do not understand what happened to the offense but something needs changed. Bowden's first year the team was abysmal but the offense was actually quite good. At that point we had every reason to expect that, if nothing else, we would have an entertaining offense. it has worked out completely the opposite though. We actually have had some pretty darn good defenses the last few seasons. I don't understand why we can't get back some of the offense that was present when the Zips had less offensive talent.

 

I am not in favor of firing Bowden because I think most of the coaches will follow him wherever he goes and I do not want to lose this defensive staff. Changes do need to be made on the offensive coaching staff though and I hope we see them sooner rather than later.

[ZipsVoice]

11 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

Meanwhile let's expect excellence out of MSoccer, M & W Track and Field, M BBall, W Swimming, W Tennis and Rifle. They want to compete w/o excuses. 

God, I luv ya Man....this says it all.  You are right, why not F-Ball???

[zippy5]

I think the cupboard was so bare that we've gotten to a point that our starters can hang with anyone in the MAC and then some, but no depth. The way recruiting is trending, that is the next step. I'm certainly not thrilled with the way the season has gone, but we went to the MACCG last year for the 2nd time ever.. Maybe I'm jaded by how bad we sucked for so long, but I don't want to say TB needs to go. I'd like to see some changes on the offensive side of the coaching staff.

[LZIp]

43 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

I think the cupboard was so bare that we've gotten to a point that our starters can hang with anyone in the MAC and then some, but no depth. The way recruiting is trending, that is the next step. I'm certainly not thrilled with the way the season has gone, but we went to the MACCG last year for the 2nd time ever.. Maybe I'm jaded by how bad we sucked for so long, but I don't want to say TB needs to go. I'd like to see some changes on the offensive side of the coaching staff.

I concur.

[Lee Adams]

On 11/12/2018 at 6:12 PM, zzx said:

 self explanatory for most

If the point was to say that because Woodson's stats were better than Ramart's for one game that Ramart isn't possibly going to be a decent QB then that person should apply for a head coaching position. Obviously able to see into the future where others can not.

[RowdyZip]

On 11/13/2018 at 9:17 AM, zippy5 said:

I think the cupboard was so bare that we've gotten to a point that our starters can hang with anyone in the MAC and then some, but no depth. The way recruiting is trending, that is the next step. I'm certainly not thrilled with the way the season has gone, but we went to the MACCG last year for the 2nd time ever.. Maybe I'm jaded by how bad we sucked for so long, but I don't want to say TB needs to go. I'd like to see some changes on the offensive side of the coaching staff.

 

I'm confused by this.  TB is nearing two full scholarship cycles.  College football turns over 75-85% every 4 years and 99.9% every 5.  If there's a lack of depth, isn't that 100% on the coaching staff at this point?  

[GJGood]

1 hour ago, RowdyZip said:

 

I'm confused by this.  TB is nearing two full scholarship cycles.  College football turns over 75-85% every 4 years and 99.9% every 5.  If there's a lack of depth, isn't that 100% on the coaching staff at this point?  

I do not think there is a lack of depth. I do think this staff is entirely too deliberate at developing most of their depth.

[zippy5]

2 hours ago, RowdyZip said:

 

I'm confused by this.  TB is nearing two full scholarship cycles.  College football turns over 75-85% every 4 years and 99.9% every 5.  If there's a lack of depth, isn't that 100% on the coaching staff at this point?  

If you think he was able to recruit 25 quality players each year after the sht hole he inherited, sure. I don't think that's the case.

Edited November 16, 2018 by zippy5