Back when cutting sports seemed like the abyss...

[UA1987]

46 minutes ago, morris buttermaker said:

Based on what?... based on the fact that they all run programs that lose money. Just because colleges are going broke paying coaches $300,000 - $700,000 to coach teams in front of 1,800 - 4,000 fans doesn't mean they are worth it. The market is broken. You want to be a coach? well you better coach a program that has some value, or take salary that is more in line with what you do (coaching teams that nobody will pay to watch).. don't want to coach a MAC team for $200,000/yr?... find something else to do.  Colleges have overpaid for years.

I think what wouldn't be a bad idea is to spread some of the media money that HC's currently get out to assistants who could talk more to the media. That way you might not get the boring HC coach speak (Arth) that we currently get and deserving assistant coaches might stay around in some sort of succession plan, should a HC leave, if the team has found a winning formula.    

Edited May 20, 2020 by UA1987

[zippy5]

59 minutes ago, morris buttermaker said:

Based on what?... based on the fact that they all run programs that lose money. Just because colleges are going broke paying coaches $300,000 - $700,000 to coach teams in front of 1,800 - 4,000 fans doesn't mean they are worth it. The market is broken. You want to be a coach? well you better coach a program that has some value, or take salary that is more in line with what you do (coaching teams that nobody will pay to watch).. don't want to coach a MAC team for $200,000/yr?... find something else to do.  Colleges have overpaid for years.

The prices now reflect market value. Your proposed salary is snatched out of thin air with no basis of reality behind them. Who would coach a MAC school for that much? 1-AA coaches make more. Just cut football at that point if we're going to nickel and dime that much. 

[Spin]

NCAA fires a warning shot at CMU.

[zippy5]

That's dated 4/25

[kreed5120]

The market is over inflated because the subsidies the schools currently throw at athletics. You reduce those subsidies and the amounts universities can "afford to pay" go down. I don't think it's just football or basketball head coaches at G5 schools who have inflated salaries. It's also the volleyball, t&f, and softball coaches who are making 6 figures despite playing in front of dozens of fans. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by kreed5120

[Spin]

How many posters who demanded Akron stay in FBS, are now complaining about the cost?

[kreed5120]

12 minutes ago, Spin said:

How many posters who demanded Akron stay in FBS, are now complaining about the cost?

The two aren't mutually exclusive. As an example, I want the UA to continue as a university, but recognize they must find ways of reducing costs and minimize the deficit.

[zippy5]

14 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

The market is over inflated because the subsidies the schools currently throw at athletics. You reduce those subsidies and the amounts universities can "afford to pay" go down. I don't think it's just football or basketball head coaches at G5 schools who have inflated salaries. It's also the volleyball, t&f, and softball coaches who are making 6 figures despite playing in front of dozens of fans. 

Define over-inflated? They're paid according to what the market has dictated - perhaps the fees were needed to afford the coaches and not vice versa. I'd possibly argue that a D-1 job as a volleyball, track, wrestling, softball or similar sport is the pinnacle of their career path, there's no legitimate pro position. 200K for one of the top 100 jobs in the country in a field might not seem so outlandish when you look through that lens.

 

In any case I'd argue something is worth whatever someone pays for it, to be concise.

[Cykron]

58 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

The prices now reflect market value. 

 

Whether we like it or not, coaching salaries do reflect market value . . . but in a market that was previously escalating . . . can't wait to see what happens in the next round of negotiations.  

[kreed5120]

4 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Define over-inflated? They're paid according to what the market has dictated - perhaps the fees were needed to afford the coaches and not vice versa. I'd possibly argue that a D-1 job as a volleyball, track, wrestling, softball or similar sport is the pinnacle of their career path, there's no legitimate pro position. 200K for one of the top 100 jobs in the country in a field might not seem so outlandish when you look through that lens.

 

In any case I'd argue something is worth whatever someone pays for it, to be concise.

What they're getting paid relative to the value they're adding. Athletics as a whole has been running at a $20 million deficit. The only reason it's still functioning is because the government is throwing money at it to keep it afloat. That's not really a free market.That's an artificially inflated market. Personally, I don't think there is much of a difference between the 100th best volleyball coach or the 200th from a bringing money into the university perspective.

[zippy5]

2 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

What they're getting paid relative to the value they're adding. Athletics as a whole has been running at a $20 million deficit. The only reason it's still functioning is because the government is throwing money at it to keep it afloat. That's not really a free market.That's an artificially inflated market. Personally, I don't think there is much of a difference between the 100th best volleyball coach or the 200th from a bringing money into the university perspective.

If college coaches were getting paid based on profits they bring in, most of them would be volunteers

[kreed5120]

5 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

If college coaches were getting paid based on profits they bring in, most of them would be volunteers

 

Janitors don't add much value, but they're still needed. I'm just saying what I feel they get paid isn't representative of the value they're adding to the university. As athletics slashes budgets, you're going to see a downward trend in pay. It's already happening with coaches at various universities taking 10-25% pay cuts. 

[LZIp]

The P5 and their exuberant salaries are what is driving the G5 prices up. There are strength and conditioning coaches making more than every single HC in the MAC except Candle. Its impossible for us to hire a coordinator at a top school. Doesn't seem like too long ago where that would have been a legitimate possibility. Some sort of coaching salary cap/redistribution might be worth considering, though I'm sure the OSU, Alabama's, etc of the world would never let that happen.

[zippy5]

10 minutes ago, LZIp said:

The P5 and their exuberant salaries are what is driving the G5 prices up. There are strength and conditioning coaches making more than every single HC in the MAC except Candle. Its impossible for us to hire a coordinator at a top school. Doesn't seem like too long ago where that would have been a legitimate possibility. Some sort of coaching salary cap/redistribution might be worth considering, though I'm sure the OSU, Alabama's, etc of the world would never let that happen.

No one's forcing anyone to pay anyone that much money. That's what they determined they needed to pay to obtain that person's services. We can lower our salary and hire a D3 position coach but it might be ugly.

 

Yeah, it's been ugly anyway ?

Edited May 20, 2020 by zippy5

[clarkwgriswold]

A snippet of information from something I read today about the Zips training staff.  In 2013, the department has gone from seven full-time staff and six graduate assistants to having 13 full-time athletic trainers.

[kreed5120]

Arth's 2nd best offer would have been staying at Chattanooga making ~170k. I didn't see anyone offering him $300k or even $250k. We were bidding against ourselves.

[zippy5]

20 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

Arth's 2nd best offer would have been staying at Chattanooga making ~170k. I didn't see anyone offering him $300k or even $250k. We were bidding against ourselves.

Do you think we could have gotten Arth to come for less money?

[Spin]

I think this new economic reality is going to separate the haves from the have-nots even further. The programs that have had their crap together the past 25, 35, 50+ years are going to further distance themselves from the rest of the BCS. 

 

That could help Akron if they get their crap together. There's no reason we can't compete with the rest of the MAC, and the bottom half of the Big Ten and other P5 conferences.

 

IF. For such a short word, it is huge for us.

[Zipmeister]

38 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Do you think we could have gotten Arth to come for less money?

 

In a heart beat.

 

A better contract would have paid him $24K per win. 12-0 gets him his $300K and would have dramatically reduced his salary for last season, but I don't want to see his family using food stamps so how about $100K base and $17K per win.

[GP1]

3 hours ago, Spin said:

NCAA fires a warning shot at CMU.

Some schools are starting to look at their condition realistically. This is a good thing. 

 

Some conferences are starting to consider joining together to pressure the NCAA. This is a good thing. 

 

More of this please. Sanity is starting to wake up from a long slumber. 

 

BTW, why are media outlets in Michigan so much better at reporting on the Mac than Ohio outlets?

Edited May 20, 2020 by GP1

[clarkwgriswold]

They thought they were paying the market rate for a head coach.  Remember, these decisions are made in a world (and state) where a women's rowing coach makes $400,000.

[Zip JD]

1 hour ago, Spin said:

I think this new economic reality is going to separate the haves from the have-nots even further. The programs that have had their crap together the past 25, 35, 50+ years are going to further distance themselves from the rest of the BCS. 

 

That could help Akron if they get their crap together. There's no reason we can't compete with the rest of the MAC, and the bottom half of the Big Ten and other P5 conferences.

 

IF. For such a short word, it is huge for us.

I hope you are right as to the MAC, but the Big Ten brings in way too much money for us to compete with them (top, middle or bottom of their conference).  In 2017-2018, EACH Big Ten school received $54 million from TV contracts (Maryland and Rutgers got less due to their shorter conference tenures).  The have and the have-nots will only get further apart due to the pandemic and the cuts mid-majors will have to make to survive. 

 

To put it in perspective, OSU's women's basketball coach made almost $1.2 million in salary and benefits in 2016-17 (the most recent year I could find). 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2019/05/15/big-ten-revenue-hit-nearly-759-million-fiscal-2018/3686089002/

[morris buttermaker]

What universities have done for the last 30 years is the same thing people do with credit cards.. they buy and pay for stuff they can't afford -- the available credit is the only reason most NCAA D1 coaches get paid what they do. 90% never were worth what they were paid. The market was artificial.  Athletics is a business -- OSU can pay what they want... Akron can't-- and neither can or should most universities. The party is over . The market for most coaches is one that stupid administrators and AD's created on credit-- not the merits of coaches. 

[72 Roo]

The Captain is right on. When the product on the field or on the court is competitive and plays well the team(s) will be supported in the stands. The problem is that we have had presidents and boards of trustees who know nothing of athletics and could care less. They have hired AD's who lack vision and creativity. These AD's have been left alone because the prez's and BOT's didn't care and felt their jobs ended when the hire was made. The result was shitty products on the field and no one demanding improvement. When was the last time an AD was fired? We can, and should, be another Toledo, even better. It's not the budget, it's the leadership. I hope Williams is up to the task. Time will tell. I've seem some good and some bad.

[morris buttermaker]

7 minutes ago, 72 Roo said:

The Captain is right on. When the product on the field or on the court is competitive and plays well the team(s) will be supported in the stands. The problem is that we have had presidents and boards of trustees who know nothing of athletics and could care less. They have hired AD's who lack vision and creativity. These AD's have been left alone because the prez's and BOT's didn't care and felt their jobs ended when the hire was made. The result was shitty products on the field and no one demanding improvement. When was the last time an AD was fired? We can, and should, be another Toledo, even better. It's not the budget, it's the leadership. I hope Williams is up to the task. Time will tell. I've seem some good and some bad.

Be like Toledo?.. they are broke too. They get $21 million from the school and students. Thats not good business. ...regardless of what you put on the field.