The World of College Football

[zippy5]

Anyway I don't subscribe to Cains. Do they cutting all money games or just back to one annually?

[GP1]

14 hours ago, ZipCat said:

 

It's behind a paywall, but how does this make any sense? The Football Program doesn't cover costs, so if you're cutting "money games" you're cutting the ability to fund the program, and the University is in a debt crisis. How does this make ANY sense?

Maybe every decision at a public university shouldn't be driven by money. 

[GP1]

13 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

 

Define long time because its only been relatively recent (the last 6-8 years) that we started scheduling more than 1 of those games a year. It's not like we were exactly thriving before that.

There were several seasons prior to 8 years ago we were guilty of it. 

 

Scheduling is way more than who you play. It's also about what time you play and what day of the week you play. Both of these can be out of a schools control and can only be solved if G5 programs come together to solve their problems. Our problem is when we get to pick the day and time, we fall flat on our face.

[kreed5120]

8 hours ago, GP1 said:

There were several seasons prior to 8 years ago we were guilty of it. 

 

Scheduling is way more than who you play. It's also about what time you play and what day of the week you play. Both of these can be out of a schools control and can only be solved if G5 programs come together to solve their problems. Our problem is when we get to pick the day and time, we fall flat on our face.

 

The problem is 10, 15, 20+ years ago we could have competed. Not at the OSU level, but at the upper level of a G5. Back then if we had more than 1 P5 school on our schedule it was because we were hosting a school like an Indiana or Iowa State. Those are the type of schools, if you're aspiring to be an upper echelon G5, you need to schedule and on occasion beat.

 

For the bulk of two decades we experienced extreme ineptitude on multiple levels and failed to capitalize. Fast forward to today and the landscape of college athletics has vastly changed as has Akron's financial situation. We can't compete with the upper half of the G5 financially any longer. Even EMU collective a few years ago reportedly made a $1 million offer for a QB. Meanwhile we can't even afford a training table...

Edited Friday at 08:12 PM by kreed5120

[ZipCat]

11 hours ago, GP1 said:

Maybe every decision at a public university shouldn't be driven by money. 

 

I naturally agree, but not sports ... not when the University is in debt, and a lot of it has to do with the debt burden from supporting athletics with that white Elephant of a stadium.

[ZipCat]

On 7/17/2025 at 4:38 PM, zippy5 said:

maybe they can try to win games and build a fanbase - we've tried the money game route for a long time and it appears it might not actually work

 

I'm as much of a diehard as any Zip fan, but this is just delusional. You stand a better chance of building a fanbase by having a signature win in a season you go undefeated, than you do by playing Somebody-Nowhere-University. Remember Indiana University 4OT loss?

[ZipCat]

5 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

 

The problem is 10, 15, 20+ years ago we could have competed. Not at the OSU level, but at the upper level of a G5. Back then if we had more than 1 P5 school on our schedule it was because we were hosting a school like an Indiana or Iowa State. Those are the type of schools, if you're aspiring to be an upper echelon G5, you need to schedule and on occasion beat.

 

For the bulk of two decades we experienced extreme ineptitude on multiple levels and failed to capitalize. Fast forward to today and the landscape of college athletics has vastly changed as has Akron's financial situation. We can't compete with the upper half of the G5 financially any longer. Even EMU collective a few years ago reportedly made a $1 million offer for a QB. Meanwhile we can't even afford a training table...

 

Bingo. The days of being a competitive G5 team that can "build a fanbase" are gone folks. OSU is king here, and OU and Cincinnati take whatever is leftover. Maybe you could have done it in 2013 by beating Michigan, enduring Akron into the OSU fandom's hearts or something...but that was really the last window. You're not doing it in 2025...how many times are we doing to double-down on the fallacy that Akron can be competitive at Football?

[GP1]

43 minutes ago, ZipCat said:

 

Bingo. The days of being a competitive G5 team that can "build a fanbase" are gone folks.

I'm of the opinion that if G5 schools snap out of it and begin to use their athletic departments to benefit the athletes students alumni fans and general community around their schools, their greatest days could be ahead of them. 

 

Further, I believe there is room for only one professional football league dominating the attention of Americans in the fall and winter. That league is the NFL. I believe over time Americans will grow weary with the pro football of the P4 schools when they realize only 3-4 schools are capable of winning the league. It won't happen overnight, but interest will erode. When that happens, people will look for other ways to spend time with their family and friends. OSUlike games are out of reach for most families. Why can't G5 schools provide games at a time and day of the week when families can attend? Get people to the games and everything else the school offers is on display for the taxpayers. Make it a great day for them and then you have something.

[ZipCat]

21 hours ago, GP1 said:

I'm of the opinion that if G5 schools snap out of it and begin to use their athletic departments to benefit the athletes students alumni fans and general community around their schools

 

Except G5 programs only exist as resume-builders for everyone involved so they can jump to the real  jobs that are the P5.

 

I'm sorry GP1, but those days have come and gone. And when we're seeing massive cuts to ACTUAL EDUCATION over, and over, and over, and over ... at some point we have to reconcile that it's negligence to act like we can be competitive and keep flushing money down the drain.

[Let'sGoZips94]

21 hours ago, GP1 said:

I'm of the opinion that if G5 schools snap out of it and begin to use their athletic departments to benefit the athletes students alumni fans and general community around their schools, their greatest days could be ahead of them. 

 

Further, I believe there is room for only one professional football league dominating the attention of Americans in the fall and winter. That league is the NFL. I believe over time Americans will grow weary with the pro football of the P4 schools when they realize only 3-4 schools are capable of winning the league. It won't happen overnight, but interest will erode. When that happens, people will look for other ways to spend time with their family and friends. OSUlike games are out of reach for most families. Why can't G5 schools provide games at a time and day of the week when families can attend? Get people to the games and everything else the school offers is on display for the taxpayers. Make it a great day for them and then you have something.

 

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. Akron needs to lean 100% into being a family-first and college-fun environment and atmosphere. The only way to solve Akron's problems is to plant seeds among each generation and hope they turn into a blossoming fan base. Akron is simply doing a poor job at planting those seeds. Akron, as a community, finds a way to support Cleveland's AA baseball team just fine. why? The Rubberducks find ways to connect with the community, especially the youth. It's going to be take a group of non-traditional higher education suits to get creative, swallow their pride, roll up their sleeves, and reach the next generation. Too many people who have been in charge at Akron have seemingly solely focused on donors. It has been such a shortsighted strategy to put all the eggs in the basket of people with aging money. 

 

Delaware, of all universities, is currently doing a NCAA Football 26 marketing campaign where people from around the country can submit a video or photo of them winning the National Championship with Delaware. I forget what the prize is, but they currently have applications from at least most continental US states, if not all 50 states by now. I don't even think they have any cool in-game features. Meanwhile, Akron has the turnover/touchdown tire, Zippy, and the Wagon Wheel in the game, yet nobody is using that to creatively promote the program/university. 

 

I won't stand for any G5 fan base building slander. It's a total fallacy. The Sun Belt has had football for ~25 years and they are leap frogging the MAC in attendance. Yes the MAC lives in the shadows of the Big Ten, but what would the Sun Belt excuse be? They are in the shadows of the Big Ten, Big 12, ACC, AND SEC. Steinbrecher has done Akron no favors with how he has destroyed the MAC's reputation, but Akron is still capable of being creative and unique. If the conversation continues to strictly be "how can we cater to donors," Akron will continue to fall further and further behind. If the conversation shifts to, "How can we unequivocally reach the youth," we'll get somewhere. 

[kreed5120]

Its not just college sports. The MAC schools have to compete with pro and minor league sports as well. Using northeast Ohio as an example, we have the Browns, Guardians, and Cavs, multiple minor league baseball teams, the Lake Erie Monsters, and Cleveland Charge. Not to mention whatever other entertainment options.

 

People only have so much available time and only so much disposable income. I believe Cleveland is the smallest metro to have 3 major pro sports teams. Many of the SunBelt schools are in the middle of nowhere. Those schools have less to compete with for live entertainment.

[GP1]

1 hour ago, kreed5120 said:

Its not just college sports. The MAC schools have to compete with pro and minor league sports as well. Using northeast Ohio as an example, we have the Browns, Guardians, and Cavs, multiple minor league baseball teams, the Lake Erie Monsters, and Cleveland Charge. Not to mention whatever other entertainment options.

 

People only have so much available time and only so much disposable income. I believe Cleveland is the smallest metro to have 3 major pro sports teams. Many of the SunBelt schools are in the middle of nowhere. Those schools have less to compete with for live entertainment.

Millions of people live in NE Ohio. Surely someone could figure out a way to get 15,000 of them to show up for a football game six times a year. 

[kreed5120]

16 hours ago, GP1 said:

Millions of people live in NE Ohio. Surely someone could figure out a way to get 15,000 of them to show up for a football game six times a year. 

 

I don't have hard numbers, but I would guess Akron is averaging around 8k-10k currently. An extra 5k-7k fans (to get us to 15k) per game isn't going to suddenly make Akron financially competitive at the G5 level. Especially when you consider the majority of those extra ticket sales would be GA, which last I look are about $15/ticket, or students who get free admission.

 

Edit: That's not to say it wouldn't be great to have more fans at games. What would get people's interest is winning games that matter.

 

Joe Akron isn't going to care about Akron trying to pad its win totals against cupcakes, like New Mexico State, just so that it can backdoor its way into a 6-6 record and irrelevant bowl game that only hard-core fans or degenerate gamblers care about. What could get their attention is beating UM in the Big House, which we nearly did. You only have those opportunities if you schedule those games. App State had a lot of success at the FCS level, but their win over Michigan is what everyone remembers them for.

Edited yesterday at 04:38 PM by kreed5120

[GP1]

1 hour ago, kreed5120 said:

 

I don't have hard numbers, but I would guess Akron is averaging around 8k-10k currently. An extra 5k-7k fans (to get us to 15k) per game isn't going to suddenly make Akron financially competitive at the G5 level. Especially when you consider the majority of those extra ticket sales would be GA, which last I look are about $15/ticket, or students who get free admission.

 

Edit: That's not to say it wouldn't be great to have more fans at games. What would get people's interest is winning games that matter.

 

Joe Akron isn't going to care about Akron trying to pad its win totals against cupcakes, like New Mexico State, just so that it can backdoor its way into a 6-6 record and irrelevant bowl game that only hard-core fans or degenerate gamblers care about. What could get their attention is beating UM in the Big House, which we nearly did. You only have those opportunities if you schedule those games. App State had a lot of success at the FCS level, but their win over Michigan is what everyone remembers them for.

Well, if the G5 schools pulled their heads out of their backsides, they could structure their league in a way that finances were less of a burden. 

 

I don't think a high level P4 win does much for a G5 school long term. App State was already a good program. It won national championships the two years prior to beating Michigan and were a I-AA powerhouse for years prior. Win or lose against Michigan that day, App State would be good. I think that the incoming freshman class wasn't born when they beat Michigan. It's a strange historical fact for them in the same way that Akron beating OSU in the late 1800s is a strange historical fact now. 

 

Our problem is even when something good happens, it's never enough and an excuse for why we can't be any good. Wins against Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Northwestern (I think they played in the Big 10 championship this season)?..... That's not good enough, they didn't beat Michigan that one time so nobody cares. The reason nobody cares is because even if they were good, they play their games on days of the week and at times that make it almost impossible for people to either attend and/or care. They play their arch rival on weekday night games in front of a basically empty stadium. The money problem can be mitigated, but the stupidity can't. 

[ZipCat]

On 7/19/2025 at 4:35 PM, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Too many people who have been in charge at Akron have seemingly solely focused on donors.

 

Because Akron is seen as a stepping stone, a resume builder, nothing more. And Board of Trustees spots aren't awarded to people who care about the University of Akron or community, they're political appointees in a state that constantly doubles down on not caring about education. Even people in this very forum, crap on professors and people who work at the University, who are the very people that ... if you pay them well and trust them to be experts in what they do, can help build that sense of community. But instead the state and political powers at be just see Akron as a glorified community college; so the community and students are going to treat it as such.

[ZipCat]

20 hours ago, GP1 said:

Millions of people live in NE Ohio. Surely someone could figure out a way to get 15,000 of them to show up for a football game six times a year. 

 

I feel like this has been discussed a trillion times before. Unlike OU, which is in the middle of nowhere. Unlike Cincinnati, which is a larger city with it's own relatively unique culture and a larger student-base, There's another D-1 college right down the road...not to mention OSU. Yeah people show up to The Akron Rubberducks because it's over the summer.

 

The best student Turnout we had to games was in the RooWards days and when they were doing stuff like Blackout game and tuition giveaways. Guess what? Those people behind that weren't valued, and the University refused to pay them what they were worth, so they rightfully moved on to Bigger Universities who were willing to pay them more.

[kreed5120]

5 hours ago, GP1 said:

Well, if the G5 schools pulled their heads out of their backsides, they could structure their league in a way that finances were less of a burden. 

 

I don't think a high level P4 win does much for a G5 school long term. App State was already a good program. It won national championships the two years prior to beating Michigan and were a I-AA powerhouse for years prior. Win or lose against Michigan that day, App State would be good. I think that the incoming freshman class wasn't born when they beat Michigan. It's a strange historical fact for them in the same way that Akron beating OSU in the late 1800s is a strange historical fact now. 

 

Our problem is even when something good happens, it's never enough and an excuse for why we can't be any good. Wins against Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Northwestern (I think they played in the Big 10 championship this season)?..... That's not good enough, they didn't beat Michigan that one time so nobody cares. The reason nobody cares is because even if they were good, they play their games on days of the week and at times that make it almost impossible for people to either attend and/or care. They play their arch rival on weekday night games in front of a basically empty stadium. The money problem can be mitigated, but the stupidity can't. 

 

Even before MACtion Akron football was an afterthought. It would be even worse today as live attendance at sporting events is down a crossed the board at all levels compared to the 80s or 90s.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but my undergrad was during the Ianello years. Having a new stadium should have been an exciting time for the program. Instead it was a pathetic excuse for football. People can forgive you for losing by 3 touchdowns to a ranked P4 program. Consistently losing by 20, 30, 40 points to teams in your own conference week after week destroys fan enthusiasm. Often times the games were decided before half-time. More so than just losing, nobody wants to watch bad football. At least when the Browns lose it's often times still a game entering the 4th QTR.

 

The same friends who I used to go to games with as an undergrad quit going and now even if I tried giving them free tickets, they'd rather just stay home and do yardwork or whatever else.

 

The Northwestern win was the most excited I have been as a Zips football fan (wasn't a Zips fan until 2007). The issue is they failed to build off of it. I think they finished 4-8 that season. Followed by Arth's 3-24 tenure. Why would Joe Akron care if after a big win they just go back to being the same old Akron?

 

The last game I went to was in 2016 when App State came to town. If you're wanting 15k-20k people at games I'm the low hanging fruit you should be looking to attract. I obviously have an interest in Akron sports since I post here and since that time I have even attended dozens of other Akron sporting events. Heck, I've even went to several alumni homecoming tailgates, but skipped the game. Deciding on either going to Eurogyro to hang out with friends or just going home instead. I'm telling you the reason I don't attend is because watching bad football, which Akron has played for the better part of the decades I've been a fan, isn't worth spending 4 hours of my Saturday, Tuesday, or Wednesday. You're a former football player if I recall correctly and it seems if you were local you would probably already have season tickets. You're not the Joe Akron that needs to be convinced to attend. Simply playing games on Saturdays isn't going to make 10k more fans show up in the frigid cold. Much more needs to be changed.

Edited yesterday at 11:42 PM by kreed5120

[GP1]

40 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

Even before MACtion Akron football was an afterthought. It would be even worse today as live attendance at sporting events is down a crossed the board at all levels compared to the 80s or 90s.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but my undergrad was during the Ianello years. Having a new stadium should have been an exciting time for the program. Instead it was a pathetic excuse for football. People can forgive you for losing by 3 touchdowns to a ranked P4 program. Consistently losing by 20, 30, 40 points to teams in your own conference week after week destroys fan enthusiasm. Often times the games were decided before half-time. More so than just losing, nobody wants to watch bad football. At least when the Browns lose it's often times still a game entering the 4th QTR.

 

The same friends who I used to go to games with as an undergrad quit going and now even if I tried giving them free tickets, they'd rather just stay home and do yardwork or whatever else.

 

The Northwestern win was the most excited I have been as a Zips football fan (wasn't a Zips fan until 2007). The issue is they failed to build off of it. I think they finished 4-8 that season. Followed by Arth's 3-24 tenure. Why would Joe Akron care if after a big win they just go back to being the same old Akron?

 

The last game I went to was in 2016 when App State came to town. If you're wanting 15k-20k people at games I'm the low hanging fruit you should be looking to attract. I obviously have an interest in Akron sports since I post here and since that time I have even attended dozens of other Akron sporting events. Heck, I've even went to several alumni homecoming tailgates, but skipped the game. Deciding on either going to Eurogyro to hang out with friends or just going home instead. I'm telling you the reason I don't attend is because watching bad football, which Akron has played for the better part of the decades I've been a fan, isn't worth spending 4 hours of my Saturday, Tuesday, or Wednesday. You're a former football player if I recall correctly and it seems if you were local you would probably already have season tickets. You're not the Joe Akron that needs to be convinced to attend. Simply playing games on Saturdays isn't going to make 10k more fans show up in the frigid cold. Much more needs to be changed.

I wouldn't buy season tickets because I wouldn't go to the weeknight games or any game that starts after 3:30. There is no reason for a family of four with the oldest child being 11 to go to a game starting later or on a weeknight, which isn't me, I'm just saying. 

 

By itself, Akron can't solve this problem. It's a problem throughout the G5 world. The causes are many. The solutions will be simple but hard to achieve because of the enemy within, athletic directors. 

Edited 23 hours ago by GP1

[Hilltopper]

4 hours ago, ZipCat said:

 

Because Akron is seen as a stepping stone, a resume builder, nothing more. And Board of Trustees spots aren't awarded to people who care about the University of Akron or community, they're political appointees in a state that constantly doubles down on not caring about education. Even people in this very forum, crap on professors and people who work at the University, who are the very people that ... if you pay them well and trust them to be experts in what they do, can help build that sense of community. But instead the state and political powers at be just see Akron as a glorified community college; so the community and students are going to treat it as such.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Have you ever even met any of the trustees? Your envy of anyone who is more accomplished than you clouds your judgement. Most of the trustees serve due to a sense of responsibility to their Alma Mater and community. The ones I know are way past needing a trustee position as some kind of stepping stone to some other position. They usually are well entrenched in the community through years of charitable and foundation work. The current trustees are in a difficult position trying to keep UA from bankruptcy and dissolution. It's a fine balancing act to try to keep all the shareholders(students, faculty, administrators and taxpayers) happy and still balance the budget. 

[ZipCat]

4 minutes ago, Hilltopper said:

You have no clue what you are talking about. Have you ever even met any of the trustees? Your envy of anyone who is more accomplished than you clouds your judgement. Most of the trustees serve due to a sense of responsibility to their Alma Mater and community. The ones I know are way past needing a trustee position as some kind of stepping stone to some other position. They usually are well entrenched in the community through years of charitable and foundation work. The current trustees are in a difficult position trying to keep UA from bankruptcy and dissolution. It's a fine balancing act to try to keep all the shareholders(students, faculty, administrators and taxpayers) happy and still balance the budget. 

 

Every major decision of the board of trustees over the past 20-years has been a complete disaster. UA wouldn't be in the position of potential bankruptcy and dissolution if it weren't for the bungling monumentally weak decision making by the BOT.

 

Have I met any of the Trustees? Yes, in the past. The current ones? No.  Am I wrong that the BoT are political appointments in Ohio?

[GP1]

12 hours ago, Hilltopper said:

The current trustees are in a difficult position trying to keep UA from bankruptcy and dissolution.

Bankruptcy is bad. Dissolution is worse. Anything further you would like to share?

[zippy5]

On 7/18/2025 at 5:23 PM, ZipCat said:

 

I'm as much of a diehard as any Zip fan, but this is just delusional. You stand a better chance of building a fanbase by having a signature win in a season you go undefeated, than you do by playing Somebody-Nowhere-University. Remember Indiana University 4OT loss?

We beat Northwestern and NC State. No one gives a sht . Win more games

[a-zip]

I posted this 7 years ago and here we are.......

 

Quote

First of all, I made a comment on a different thread related to Coach Arth and I wanted to clarify it was not directed at him.  My comment about dumbass decision making WAS SQUARELY DIRECTED at the UA Board and the ones who ultimately make decisions on spending and the hires at the executive level (including Presidents, ADs, Coaches, Deans, etc.).  My comments below are not negative to any of our coaches, I have met them all and believe they are trying their best.  

 

I was taught about ROI and analytics in business school at UA – our board seems to have forgotten what all of that means.  While I love the new buildings and stadiums, things have to be done responsibly.  UA is accumulating a tremendous amount of debt from dumbass decisions.

 

I want our teams to win and go to postseason play more than anyone and I would like to see enrollment up and even become more selective but the powers that be don’t seem to have a clue on how to do any of this. 

 

The school has accumulated a tremendous amount of debt, period!  That needs to be addressed before you go paying TWO head football coaches at the same time.  There is no way anyone could justify to me firing a coach when you still owe him money on his contract?  Not in the financial situation we are in.  We can't afford it and Bowden was not that bad.  

 

Regarding Bowden, if they didn't have the belief in him to begin with…why extend his contract?  It was a dumbass decision to either 1- extend his contract to begin with or 2- fire him and now pay twice as much with a new head coach.  

 

Regarding Coach Arth, IMHO it would be a dumbass decision to fire him if we would then owe him money on his contract.  We have to cross our fingers and hope he succeeds for however long we are obligated to him or if he succeeds, however long he stays with us. 

 

When did this debacle start? Around 1985.  On another thread, kreed5220 posted tenures and records of our last 6 coaches.  If you go back one more year you would have seen a 13-year winning record with Coach Dennison at 80–62–2 and before him Gordon Larson with a 12-year winning record of 74–33–5.  Hmmm.  Both of these men were loved by the Akron community and loved being a part of it.  This whole skid started when Coach D was fired for Gerry Faust!!  Things have never been the same.  We have also gone through 7 different presidents at UoA during this timeframe ?

 

After all of these dumbass decisions, the board had the solution right in front of them.  A gift was with Jim Tressel, Keith Dambrot, Terry Bowden and Jim Dennison on campus.  They had a chance to bring in the Akron community with beloved leaders and right some wrongs. 

 

Since I joined ZN I have posted my belief that UA would be served better by home grown leaders.....people that want to be here and not just as a stepping stone.  If we would have made Jim Tressel President, Jim Dennison AD I guarantee you they would have kept Keith Dambrot and Terry Bowden.  You pair those four gentlemen with Lebron James…..now we are talking some serious fundraising and enthusiasm from the community.  

 

They are the type of people the Akron community could identify with and get behind.  These are men that would have STAYED at UA and would have taken pride in solidifying their legacies in Ohio at UA. They are the type of men that could have figured out a way to get basketball the facilities it needed.  They are men with common sense.

 

Could you imagine the reaction of a top football recruit if Terry Bowden, Jim Tressel and Bobby Bowden walked in to their living room?!  How about a top basketball recruit with KD, Lebron and Tressel walking in (with top notch facilities)?

  

I realize this is a lot of hindsight but I have been saying this same on ZN since I joined. There seems to be panic with the Board at UA.  They are making bad decisions to try to fix previous bad decisions. 

Leadership is to blame.  It’s kind of reminds me of the Redskins since Daniel Snyder bought the team and is now running it in to the ground.  It’s all about poor leadership and financial responsibility.

 

So, what next?  Learn from mistakes, use ROI, analytics…. Hell, use common sense!!

 

[GP1]

1 hour ago, a-zip said:

I posted this 7 years ago and here we are.......

 

 

This was quite the ramble. I'm jealous. 

[Let'sGoZips94]

Alright MAC, your move. Go get em. 🤣

 

And people think Toledo and Ohio are coveted commodities. 

Edited 47 minutes ago by Let'sGoZips94