UMass and Other MAC Football & Athletic Budgets vs. the Zips

[Captain Kangaroo]

The Zips Aren't Exactly Fighting a Fair Fight - 

 

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[MangoZip]

So Zips spend less than on football than any other team in the MAC? 

[clarkwgriswold]

1 hour ago, MangoZip said:

So Zips spend less than on football than any other team in the MAC? 

 

Well....then.....they're at least getting what they're paying for......

[GP1]

When I say they aren't trying to win, I mean it. 

[ZippyRulz]

Those numbers don't seem to include facilities financing. They really should.

 

[UA1996MAENG]

15 hours ago, GP1 said:

When I say they aren't trying to win, I mean it. 

UA carries significant debt and is facing an on-going enrollment decline-stagnation much like Toldeo, Wright State, Ohio, Miami and others.  "Winning" in the lanscape of NIL and the Transfer Portal requires money that our university simple does not have. Significant money is never going to come from our affiliation with the MAC. I think the largest share of UA's athletics revenue comes from the 2-3 football games each year with Power 5 teams. Other than that, where's the money coming from to "win"?

[Reslife4Life]

CMU isn't exactly lighting the league on fire with how much they spend

[GP1]

8 hours ago, UA1996MAENG said:

UA carries significant debt and is facing an on-going enrollment decline-stagnation much like Toldeo, Wright State, Ohio, Miami and others.  "Winning" in the lanscape of NIL and the Transfer Portal requires money that our university simple does not have. Significant money is never going to come from our affiliation with the MAC. I think the largest share of UA's athletics revenue comes from the 2-3 football games each year with Power 5 teams. Other than that, where's the money coming from to "win"?

I was at an alumni event in recently and Dr. Miller said all dorms were full. 

[egregiousbob]

10 hours ago, UA1996MAENG said:

UA carries significant debt and is facing an on-going enrollment decline-stagnation much like Toldeo, Wright State, Ohio, Miami and others.  "Winning" in the lanscape of NIL and the Transfer Portal requires money that our university simple does not have. Significant money is never going to come from our affiliation with the MAC. I think the largest share of UA's athletics revenue comes from the 2-3 football games each year with Power 5 teams. Other than that, where's the money coming from to "win"?

I wouldn't include Ohio, Miami or BG in your list of schools facing enrollment problems.  BG is near an all-time high. Ohio has had record size freshman classes each of the past two years.  Toledo and Wright State, like Akron, are struggling.  All three are urban schools...gotta be something there.   With regard to budget figures, schools are not consistent in how they account for athletic expenditures. Buffalo, for example, pays for facilities out of the general fund, unlike Ohio schools.

Edited March 13 by egregiousbob

[UA1996MAENG]

12 hours ago, GP1 said:

I was at an alumni event in recently and Dr. Miller said all dorms were full. 

I heard the same thing. My son lives in the Honors Complex.  That's the paradox about UA - the dormatory space is filled but enrollment is down.  

[Blue & Gold]

5 minutes ago, UA1996MAENG said:

I heard the same thing. My son lives in the Honors Complex.  That's the paradox about UA - the dormatory space is filled but enrollment is down.  

So fewer commuter students.  Interesting.

[UA1996MAENG]

11 hours ago, egregiousbob said:

I wouldn't include Ohio, Miami or BG in your list of schools facing enrollment problems.  BG is near an all-time high. Ohio has had record size freshman classes each of the past two years.  Toledo and Wright State, like Akron, are struggling.  All three are urban schools...gotta be something there.   With regard to budget figures, schools are not consistent in how they account for athletic expenditures. Buffalo, for example, pays for facilities out of the general fund, unlike Ohio schools.

I didn't include BGSU. BG and Kent are doing well.  The urban factor is important, but then how do we account for University of Cincinnati gaining significant enrollment?  Different cities have different pluses and minuses, but the crime and decay in some cities really does hurt the local universities.

[UA1996MAENG]

7 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

So fewer commuter students.  Interesting.

The on-campus housing cost and value certainly seems to attract the students vs. off-campus apartments, etc. 

[UA1996MAENG]

11 hours ago, egregiousbob said:

I wouldn't include Ohio, Miami or BG in your list of schools facing enrollment problems.  BG is near an all-time high. Ohio has had record size freshman classes each of the past two years.  Toledo and Wright State, like Akron, are struggling.  All three are urban schools...gotta be something there.   With regard to budget figures, schools are not consistent in how they account for athletic expenditures. Buffalo, for example, pays for facilities out of the general fund, unlike Ohio schools.

Ohio picked up a larger freshman class but it has suffered a long-term enrollment decline that is still a problem.  Miami, of course, is not in the same dire straits as other universities we've discussed, but the univeristy is cutting programs and the admin citied decling enrollment as one of the factors in that decison. 

[Let'sGoZips94]

43 minutes ago, UA1996MAENG said:

I didn't include BGSU. BG and Kent are doing well.  The urban factor is important, but then how do we account for University of Cincinnati gaining significant enrollment?  Different cities have different pluses and minuses, but the crime and decay in some cities really does hurt the local universities.

 

Cincy has the appeal and financial benefit of the Big 12 (and even the AAC prior). It offers a more enjoyable college experience than many inner city colleges. 

 

Why is Kent doing well? It has an actual college campus with an enjoyable college atmosphere. When college kids are looking to party on the weekends, they don't say, "Let's go to Akron." They say, "Let's go to Kent." Kent has multiple bars right there on campus, and it's a relatively safer area. What is Ohio? A party school. How does Ohio State thrive in Columbus (horrible crime rates now)? They have the environment. 

 

The University of Akron has failed to sequester itself from the downtrodden City of Akron, especially when the Info was built. Instead of creating a campus that promotes a college atmosphere, they have a campus that is a city atmosphere - and a poor one at that.

 

Outside of the select few majors that require higher education, most college degrees are a dime a dozen and absolutely worthless, especially from a university name standpoint. There is very little difference between the basic majors at most schools. The selling-point difference is largely found in the atmosphere. Imagine going into a high school, especially in NEO, and pitching Akron vs Ohio.

 

Akron recruiter: "Do you want to attend Akron, live close to your parents, and risk higher crime rates on a city campus?"

 

Ohio recruiter: "I'm sure you've heard about how much fun it is down in Athens. We have a good time, you can get away from your parents while also being a day's drive away from home, and our degree carries the same weight as any local school you'll talk to."

 

Many kids are largely scared into massive amounts of debt out of high school for higher education. People are starting to wake up to the scam that is higher education (especially the cost associated with it), so between that realization and other schools being able to offer more of the traditional college experience, Akron is really behind the 8 Ball. 

[Blue & Gold]

27 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

The University of Akron has failed to sequester itself from the downtrodden City of Akron, especially when the Info was built. Instead of creating a campus that promotes a college atmosphere, they have a campus that is a city atmosphere - and a poor one at that.

Would you expound upon this point?

Personally, I love where the Info is located. I'd also be thrilled with a downtown basketball arena across from Canal Park. I'm also excited about the potential of the renovated Polsky Building bringing arts & music to Main Street. I've always believed the more vibrant Main St. & Exchange Streets are the better.  I'm of the opinion the U & the city (downtown, specifically) are a symbiotic relationship. It sounds as though you and I are on different pages in this regard?

[ClevelandZip]

2 hours ago, UA1996MAENG said:

I heard the same thing. My son lives in the Honors Complex.  That's the paradox about UA - the dormatory space is filled but enrollment is down.  

One thing I will add about this, is I was going to UA when it was at peak enrollment. At the time, we had all the res halls that are currently on-campus, plus Grant, Gallucci (not sure if I spelled that right), and Quaker. Quaker is currently shuttered and they’re looking to sell it, and Grant and Gallucci are in the landfill.

 

So, I would think that compared to peak enrollment, both on-campus and off-campus students are down.

[Let'sGoZips94]

56 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

Would you expound upon this point?

Personally, I love where the Info is located. I'd also be thrilled with a downtown basketball arena across from Canal Park. I'm also excited about the potential of the renovated Polsky Building bringing arts & music to Main Street. I've always believed the more vibrant Main St. & Exchange Streets are the better.  I'm of the opinion the U & the city (downtown, specifically) are a symbiotic relationship. It sounds as though you and I are on different pages in this regard?

 

I'm referring more to Exchange and Route 8. The "happening" parts of campus (Info, soccerl, baseball, food, bars, etc.) butt up against a really ugly and higher crime part of Akron.

 

Having a good relationship with the city is important, and I'm not against that. But the city of Akron has being headed in the wrong direction for a while now, and the University failed to section off its campus from the negative parts of Akron. When they built the Info, it would've been perfect to build up the multiple block perimeter that surrounds the Info to promote more of a college atmosphere. Updated real estate, bars, food, landscaping, etc. Instead, the perimeter view/experience is Exchange with its rundown buildings, lack of restaurants/bars, etc. 

 

Downtown has had some positive developments, but that's not exactly a great walk to get to the Info, JAR, FirstEnergy Stadium, etc. It does nothing to build the atmosphere for game days, which is a huge part of the college experience. 

[GP1]

10 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

Would you expound upon this point?

Personally, I love where the Info is located. I'd also be thrilled with a downtown basketball arena across from Canal Park. I'm also excited about the potential of the renovated Polsky Building bringing arts & music to Main Street. I've always believed the more vibrant Main St. & Exchange Streets are the better.  I'm of the opinion the U & the city (downtown, specifically) are a symbiotic relationship. It sounds as though you and I are on different pages in this regard?

I agree. If someone wants a Kent experience, go to Kent. Want an Akron experience, go to Akron. 

[egregiousbob]

23 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

What is Ohio? A party school.

That's such a simplistic argument.  Compare test scores and GPA of incoming students. Compare rankings of national research universities. Hell, even compare rankings of engineering schools, where Ohio recently passed UA in overall program quality.  Is Athens fun? Yes, but OU offers a very good education and a superior total student experience. The latter explains the higher engagement of Ohio students and alums with the school's athletic programs, which tends to pee off other MAC alumni. As to long-term enrollment trends, the university's post-Covid enrollment is 28k+ versus about 31k pre-pandemic, but trends are up given two consecutive record-setting freshman classes.   

Edited March 14 by egregiousbob

[egregiousbob]

2 hours ago, egregiousbob said:

That's such a simplistic argument.  Compare test scores and GPA of incoming students. Compare rankings of national research universities. Hell, even compare rankings of engineering schools, where Ohio now ranks higher than UA.  Is Athens fun?  Yes. But Ohio offers an excellent education and a superior total student experience.  The latter explains the higher engagement of Ohio alums with the school's athletic programs, which tends to pee off other MAC alumni.  As to long-term enrollment trends, the university's post-Covid enrollment is 28k+ versus about 31k pre-covid, but trends are up given two consecutive record-setting freshman classes.   

I live in Akron and want the university to survive and thrive.  But I find it interesting that UA and Toledo are roughly equivalent in many key rankings...and both have experienced severe (40% +) enrollment declines over the past decade. They also show similar financial strength profiles, as seen in an interesting ABJ article today.  I hope this doesn't happen, but if state university consolidation does occur in the next 10 years, both UT and Akron are in jeopardy.  I suspect the state will revert to its original "4 in the corners, one in the middle" higher education structure, which would consolidate a bunch of schools in the NE, NW and SW quadrants.  

Edited March 14 by egregiousbob

[ZippyRulz]

Only 10 more years to be Zips fans.... how sobering. I'm even more flummoxed at the thought of the Toledo football community watching their program get shuttered by the state.

Edited March 14 by ZippyRulz

[dirtyolcrowe]

Cleveland st has an undergraduate student population of 14k. 
Youngstown st has 11k

Akron 12k.  
yeah…..I would say there is a trend with city/urban universities.  

[ClevelandZip]

For what it’s worth, I went to Akron BECAUSE it is an urban university. I grew up in a cowtown so Akron used to seem really big to me, and I liked that. Not sure how many of my fellow cowtowners have the same mindset as me, but there were a handful of other people from my high school that went to Akron as well.

 

I don’t know if I would have chosen a “college town” if I was initially from an urban area. Tough to say since I didn’t have that experience.

[Blue & Gold]

21 minutes ago, ClevelandZip said:

For what it’s worth, I went to Akron BECAUSE it is an urban university. I grew up in a cowtown so Akron used to seem really big to me, and I liked that. Not sure how many of my fellow cowtowners have the same mindset as me, but there were a handful of other people from my high school that went to Akron as well.

 

I don’t know if I would have chosen a “college town” if I was initially from an urban area. Tough to say since I didn’t have that experience.

I dated a girl from Canton for a while. She went to UA. She said being from Canton she always considered Akron a much bigger (kind of scary) city.  I forget how she put it, but Akron made her nervous at first... till she got used to it. Then she loved it. She still works & lives in Akron today.  I think a lot of ppl from south of town feel that way.  However, the double-whammy of COVID and the 3-year-long-marathon of Main Street demolition derby/reconstruction took a toll on downtown. More than a handful of restaurants/bars closed.  If we can get Main Street back to where it was pre-covid there's much more to do around UA & downtown than there is in KSUcks or anywhere south of town till you get to OU.