9100 Attendance

[Balsy]

I was recently in the UA Student Union for the first time. After walking by the bowling alley, the big room full of pool tables and all the other amenities, it's pretty obvious why more students aren't at games. When I went to college we didn't have any of that. When there was a football game or a basketball game, it wasn't just the biggest thing on campus, it was the only thing. We are living in the age of many student options, and more and more are opting to do things other than attending games.

We've gone over this before. Student attendance isn't high because of two primary reasons: 1. Akron is still a commuter school. Most students aren't anywhere near campus during game time. 2. College is ridiculously expensive. Weekends are one of the only times college students get to make money working a job.

These two reasons trump everything else. Though it is true there are more distractions today for my generation (these other distractions are definitely the cause of decreasing student attendance at bigger institutions...especially when you can watch the game on TV while drinking, and indulging in those other activities). It is most likely not the cause at Akron.

[Dave in Green]

Balsy, you're telling me that UA is still a commuter school and zippy5 is telling me that campus living at UA has doubled. Who am I to believe? OK, I do understand that different people see things differently from their own unique perspectives, so it's easy to see why there's disagreement on what may be the primary reason(s). Factoring in all the different perspectives, I think it's likely not any one or two reasons but a combination of all of them.

[LZIp]

So NIU has been averaging about 75% capacity during this golden era of big winning seasons. I guess they were smart to reduce the number of seats knowing they weren't going to be selling them out. Zips would have to average about 22,000 attendance to reach 75% capacity. What home attendance average do you think would be realistic to expect for the Zips if they went 44-10 over a 4-season period?

If the Zips were in the same position as NIU (years of sustained success), I would be happy with 20-22k average and think that is realistic. Thats maybe a sell out or two against teams like Marshall and BG and a few dud crowds for games against EMU and UMass. I think that is realistic.

If we are talking about the current Zips. I would expect it to be to be less, probably a good bit less. It takes time to changes people's minds about perennial losers. I would bet if the Zips go 44-10 the next 4 years, that 3rd and 4th year will be at that 20-22k average.

I do think the Zips have potential, though most likely never realized, to have close to a sell out every game. I think the location of UA is a lot more favorable than Dekalb is for NIU. Dekalb is pretty much in the middle of nowhere with a population of 44k. 1.25 hours from Chicago. NIU competes in Chicago with Illinois, Northwestern, and ND. Akron competes with OSU and Can't State, but Northwestern is actually located in Chicago and probably not much more expensive since they are a joke of a program and OSU is 2 hours away plus a lot more expensive. Just because you are near a huge market doesn't mean you are going to have a ton of support. But I think support can be earned in a football loving area like NE Ohio.

I wouldn't put Toledo's success up there with NIU's, but its still pretty solid. Not official, but with a quick look, they average around 20k attendance. I think the 20k number is very reasonable for us. I think Toledo (location wise) has the stacked decked against them more than we do. They aren't in a market near the size of Cleveland/Akron/Canton and are sort of in the middle of two schools with huge fan bases in Michigan and OSU.

[Balsy]

Balsy, you're telling me that UA is still a commuter school and zippy5 is telling me that campus living at UA has doubled. Who am I to believe? OK, I do understand that different people see things differently from their own unique perspectives, so it's easy to see why there's disagreement on what may be the primary reason(s). Factoring in all the different perspectives, I think it's likely not any one or two reasons but a combination of all of them.

And we're both correct.

Example: 29,000 students. 1,000 students can live on campus...increases to 2,000 students can live on campus. Still commuter school, while also having number of students living on campus double.

Perspective has nothing to do with it. It's simply the facts: The University of Akron can house nearly 3,000 students in it's on campus housing. While I and Zippy5 were on campus they added 1000+ to that number (effectively doubling it). They added Spanton and South halls (roughly +1000 student beds, where as it had been around 2,000 when I started).

That leaves 26,000 students who aren't living on campus. At best another 4,000 probably live in the Akron area in various apartments, houses, and other off-campus housing that is relatively close to campus. These folks would still be considered commuters.

This number (despite the new student housing complexes that have gone up) I don't believe has increased all that much. 22 exchange has largely sat partially empty since it was built (years ago) adding more off campus student housing doesn't mean more students are going to live there. (This is a discussion for another time, about how ridiculously overpriced most of these are).

Bottom line: you can believe both of us. Perception has nothing to do with it.

[Lee Adams]

With the loss to OU,how many show up for BGSU on Tuesday 11-4? And,if there is another loss at Testicle Tech on 10-25 does that significantly affect the number of butts in seats on 11-4? Does a win make any difference?

[Balsy]

With the loss to OU,how many show up for BGSU on Tuesday 11-4? And,if there is another loss at Testicle Tech on 10-25 does that significantly affect the number of butts in seats on 11-4? Does a win make any difference?

Yes. Yes it does. But a negligible difference of about 100-200.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Any attendance discussion has officially become more worthless than it already was. If that is possible.

Loss to a weak OU team killed whatever buzz would have been generated by entering the BG game with only 2 losses.

The MAC AD's made their deal with the devil by scheduling Tuesday night games in November.

Time to dig up Red Cochrane and have him hand out $1 tickets...that's the only way to get anyone to attend a game.

There will be more Akron Fans @ K.e.n.t. than there will be at either the BGSU or UMass home games.

[Dr Z]

The MAC AD's made their deal with the devil by scheduling Tuesday night games in November.

The commissioner was on with Frenchy at halftime Saturday rationalizing this decision.

[Lee Adams]

Any attendance discussion has officially become more worthless than it already was. If that is possible.

Loss to a weak OU team killed whatever buzz would have been generated by entering the BG game with only 2 losses.

The MAC AD's made their deal with the devil by scheduling Tuesday night games in November.

Time to dig up Red Cochrane and have him hand out $1 tickets...that's the only way to get anyone to attend a game.

There will be more Akron Fans @ K.e.n.t. than there will be at either the BGSU or UMass home games.

How about an 'Acme Zip' game type promo? Nobody is going to show up anyway. Sell some cheap tix,give the players a boost with a crowd and make some money off concessions etc. Problem is these days the people in all of the AD's promo positions have as much imagination as my dearly departed grandma. They are robots locked in to the 'easy' looking cash from the leaches at ESPN etc,etc. That is not LOCAL involvement. That is just a way for some snot nosed people in the marketing dept. to thump themselves on the chest.

Lets please stop the attendance conversation. It isn't going to change

[Balsy]

I agree with Lee Adams. You're seats are sitting empty anyways...why not put butts in seats? Butts equals concessions, a couple bucks for tickets (somebuddy will by a program or two out of the cheap seat people). Problem with College ball is everyone thinks they're too good for cheap seats.

If you're worried people are going to expect that, then create a section of tickets that are always that price (goodness willing you get good enough people want to fight for tickets).

1000 tickets sold for $5 = $5,000. That's 5k you didn't have before, and the stadium is that more full looking and has the impression of a fun place to be.

[GP1]

I sell products in the construction industry for a living. One of the things people always say is, "The easiest thing in the world to do is to have a big construction company. The hardest thing to do is to make money with a big company." It's easy to pick up work if you sell is for next to nothing. It's hard to make money doing that though.

The easiest thing the Athletic Department can do is sell tickets for one dollar each. It's the worst thing they can do. First, people come to expect one dollar tickets. Second, it tells people your product is only worth one dollar to watch so if you try to raise the price to two dollars per ticket, they scream about a one hundred percent increase in prices and hold a grudge for years. Third, it isn't worth five thousand dollars to end of with results one and two.

The problem with attendance has nothing to do with the price of tickets and everything to do with weeknight games and years of losing. Stop those two things and people will show up and pay more for tickets. To devalue the tickets at this point is a mistake.

[InTheZone]

Those of you saying that if we went 44-10 over 4 years that we'd only average 20-22,000, I don't think you understand how hungry most people are in NEO to have a team they claim as their own a winner (yes people ride the Buckeye bandwagon, but they are not a local team, and when you say you're from NEO, people don't automatically think "Buckeyes"). If we had that kind of sustained success, in this region, we would gain all kinds of new fans. Akron games would be a cool place to be. The Info is small enough, we could sell it out for most home games. We just need a winner. .500 seasons, which is what we're heading for, isn't going to cut it. We start seeing some 10 win seasons, the culture around this University's sports program will transform. We've never had anything close to that, so we can't imagine it, but it's happened at plenty of other places. Hell, Florida State was a crap program when TB's dad got there, and look at that atmosphere they had Saturday. Boise State used to be a community college. When I was growing up, nobody gave a rat's ass about Oregon football. When our parents were growing up, nobody gave a rat's ass about the Miami Hurricanes, and then a couple local studs decided to stay at home and "the U" was born. It can happen here. Unlike many MAC schools and most mid-majors, we're in a large metropolitan area, and we're the only game in town. Think bigger.

[Blue & Gold]

If we sell tickets that cheaply, the season ticket holders (who pay a fair price) would be pretty upset.

But, we're getting the attendance we deserve. I used to get all riled up over the lousy attendance, but no more. I've been a Zips fan my whole life, and a die-hard since 1994. Save one good year, it's been 21 years of bad, bad, bad football.

It's going to take a handful of successive successful seasons (MAC East championships & bowl game wins) to start to foster any real community pride concerning the Zips.

[Balsy]

Second, it tells people your product is only worth one dollar to watch so if you try to raise the price to two dollars per ticket, they scream about a one hundred percent increase in prices and hold a grudge for years. Third, it isn't worth five thousand dollars to end of with results one and two.

So our product is worth $25 a ticket? That must be why our stadium is full.

The problem with attendance has nothing to do with the price of tickets and everything to do with weeknight games and years of losing. Stop those two things and people will show up and pay more for tickets. To devalue the tickets at this point is a mistake.

People are sure showing up to the games now on weekends! With good ol' value of $25 a pop!

If we sell tickets that cheaply, the season ticket holders (who pay a fair price) would be pretty upset.

But, we're getting the attendance we deserve. I used to get all riled up over the lousy attendance, but no more. I've been a Zips fan my whole life, and a die-hard since 1994. Save one good year, it's been 21 years of bad, bad, bad football.

It's going to take a handful of successive successful seasons (MAC East championships & bowl game wins) to start to foster any real community pride concerning the Zips.

I'm a season ticket holder. I wouldn't be that upset about it. I'd rather have a full stadium than sit starring at a bunch of empty seats. I buy season tickets because I support the Zips and the school I graduated from. (It also helps that with one price I get all the tickets to all the sports teams).

Bottom line: The Athletic department should be making whatever package it can that will get people into the stadium. Maybe not $5 tickets, but something worth while for young families...young people...old people...the mix of people who live in the area. Because right now, it's not a value enough to attract people. I really do think that the complaining of season ticket holders is being overestimated. And if it is, then have fun sitting in an empty stadium season ticket holders!

$5 tickets for one game, to get people in the stadium isn't something to complain about. Considering the most basic season ticket holder package (with none of the "free stuff") amounts to $12.5 a game (general admission season tickets are $75 a season). I can see why a young family wouldn't want $75 season tickets (despite how good of a buy it is) because (for a family of 4) that's $300 up front. $5 tickets get the whole family in for $20, then you can spend $20-$30 on concessions for everyone. What a wonderful family outing.

[K92]

http://thebiglead.com/2013/10/12/tcu-is-playing-kansas-amon-g-carter-stadium-is-empty/

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/inside_higher_ed/2014/09/college_football_isn_t_attracting_the_audience_it_used_to.html

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/10/11/6962393/miami-hurricanes-football-attendance-cincinnati

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1814887-where-did-all-the-college-football-fans-go

[zippy5]

$25 is dirt cheap for a sporting event

[zippy5]

Okay perhaps not dirt cheap, but pretty darn cheap.

[GP1]

Ticket prices are not the problem. My guess is 99% of the people in Summit County have no idea what the price to a Zips game is.

[Balsy]

GP1, that I can agree with.

[skip-zip]

I sell products in the construction industry for a living. One of the things people always say is, "The easiest thing in the world to do is to have a big construction company. The hardest thing to do is to make money with a big company." It's easy to pick up work if you sell is for next to nothing. It's hard to make money doing that though.

The easiest thing the Athletic Department can do is sell tickets for one dollar each. It's the worst thing they can do. First, people come to expect one dollar tickets. Second, it tells people your product is only worth one dollar to watch so if you try to raise the price to two dollars per ticket, they scream about a one hundred percent increase in prices and hold a grudge for years. Third, it isn't worth five thousand dollars to end of with results one and two.

Very well said. Having spent the majority of my 30+ year working career in Sales, this is exactly you can't start giving away tickets. We'd never be able to sell tickets and make money again.

And let me add this....$25 is already DIRT CHEAP for a D-1A college football game. So, until someone can show me that Akronites are not going to the games because the ticket prices are too high, there's absolutely nothing to be accomplished by lowering the prices at all.

[Balsy]

And let me add this....$25 is already DIRT CHEAP for a D-1A college football game. So, until someone can show me that Akronites are not going to the games because the ticket prices are too high, there's absolutely nothing to be accomplished by lowering the prices at all.

Because people currently understand the "value" of an Akron Zips football game, so much so that they are flocking to Infocision stadium by the 9,100s.

Honestly I could care less about attendance. I used to get upset about it, now I just go and enjoy myself. If loser Akronites don't want to attend fun games and watch a team win, than that's their problem. I do think, however, it's ridiculous to be throwing around the contention that prices can't be lowered for a ONE game special to try and attract fans, families etc.

[GP1]

And let me add this....$25 is already DIRT CHEAP for a D-1A college football game.

I pay a little over $100 per game for two tickets and a parking pass to watch Wake Forest. As dreadful as Wake is, it is still worth the money and cheap compared to other D1A teams in the Carolinas.

Wake's stadium is only about 60% full these days because they are so bad. They do a little better when the visiting team is relatively close. Wake isn't scrambling to sell $5 tickets. What they are doing is offering five dollars off face value to season ticket holders if they buy extra tickets. If Akron goes back to selling tickets for five dollars or less, they are no further forward than they were in 1987.

[Hilltopper]

Selling tickets for $5 or less for all those years (acme-Zip) convinced Joe Akron that is all we are worth. It will take years to convince them otherwise.

[K92]

Cheap tickets are not the answer. You need to want to walk across the street to see the event.

At NASCAR races, there are literally thousands and thousands of racing fans camping all around the race track. A captive audience for the most part because a lot of these races are out in BFE and there is nowhere else to go and nothing else to see. The races are the only game in town and people are there to have what amounts to a 2 or 3 day tailgate before the Cup race on Sunday.

There is always a companion race or two at any venue before the main event on Sunday. Tickets are usually what I would call dirt cheap. NASCAR was in Talladega last week and the Sunday ticket in the grandstand I used to sit in now costs $140. You can get a general admission seat for Saturday's Truck race for $15. Most of the fans camped around that racetrack are unwilling to pay $15 to walk across the street to see what is usually a very entertaining race for the low, low price of only $15. These are people who travelled from all over the country to watch some racing and have put down stakes with a mile of the track for the entire weekend.

I know a lot of you will automatically discount this argument because it is NASCAR and NASCAR is a complete joke to many on this forum, but I think it proves my point about ticket price. I don't think there would be many more takers from the camping crowd if the Saturday ticket price was lowered to $10 or to $5 or for free. You have to want to go.

At this point, there aren't a lot of people who want to go to a Zips game.

[zippy5]

Agreed. And when people finally want to go, we can't raise the prices and piss everyone off. So we are where we are.