Zips @ #8 Gonzaga 12/10/16

[GoZags]

44 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

 On TV, they replayed the foul and Big Dog gave their center a small push in the back away from the  ball and a second later he reacted like he had been hit with a hammer.  The ref then called the foul.  It showed Big Dog being frustrated and reacting but nothing to warrant a T.  They did not show the ref calling the T.  Did something else happened that was not shown on TV or was the T based on Big Dog's initial reaction that was nothing out of the ordinary. 

Finally, you are missing my point.  I don't doubt that Big Dog and Kwan were pumping up their players.  But they have to show leadership on the court in crunch time by making or attempting  baskets.  Big Dog had more skill than the opposing player and should have owned him the last 8 minutes.  That is what we should expect from a senior playing a top ranked team when we have a chance to pull a major upset!  These kids have to bring their A game when they have a chance to win against a topped rank opponent.  The last 8 minutes there was no A game.   

 

Please take another look at the 124.40 mark and pay attention to the replay.  What you describe as a "small push" could also be described as a sharp elbow to the kidney.  What you say is "a second later" could also be described as instantaneous.  A couple of seconds later Karnowski is seen on camera rubbing his kidney.  Oh ... and if Big Dog didn't have a strong, negative reaction, why in the world was his teammate holding/restraining him? http://www.wccsports.com/thew.tv

[GoZags]

6 hours ago, Z.I.P. said:

I was really hoping someone else would step up and not force me to be the one who responds to this.  I don't know the age ofK92, but these crude remarks are generally representative of an adolescent mentality.   Those of us who have been on this board since it's infancy have worked to maintain some semblance of decency and decorum.  A basic rule might be that people don't use language they wouldn't use to their mother.  The 'c' word falls way outside what should be expected in discussion that represents the Zipsnation and the University of Akron.  I'll leave it there.  GoZips! 

 

Appreciate your comments.  I know each board is moderated differently and that I've been a guest here at your place.  That being said, I felt this was a case of "if you see something, say something" so I said something.

[Hilltopper]

15 minutes ago, GoZags said:

 

Please take another look at the 124.40 mark and pay attention to the replay.  What you describe as a "small push" could also be described as a sharp elbow to the kidney.  What you say is "a second later" could also be described as instantaneous.  A couple of seconds later Karnowski is seen on camera rubbing his kidney.  Oh ... and if Big Dog didn't have a strong, negative reaction, why in the world was his teammate holding/restraining him? http://www.wccsports.com/thew.tv

Both players had been hammering on each other the entire game. Your guy was body slamming our guy every time he tried to take a move to the basket. That push was hardly over the top. I know what BD said to the ref and it was very benign, no profanity. A good official would have just let it go. 

[1981 grad]

5 minutes ago, Hilltopper said:

Both players had been hammering on each other the entire game. Your guy was body slamming our guy every time he tried to take a move to the basket. That push was hardly over the top. I know what BD said to the ref and it was very benign, no profanity. A good official would have just let it go. 

 

26 minutes ago, GoZags said:

 

Please take another look at the 124.40 mark and pay attention to the replay.  What you describe as a "small push" could also be described as a sharp elbow to the kidney.  What you say is "a second later" could also be described as instantaneous.  A couple of seconds later Karnowski is seen on camera rubbing his kidney.  Oh ... and if Big Dog didn't have a strong, negative reaction, why in the world was his teammate holding/restraining him? http://www.wccsports.com/thew.tv

First, Gozags, welcome to this board.  I welcome the different point of view.  Also, I had no idea that there was a replay of the game as I did want to take a second look at it so that for letting me know about the link.  Our radio commentator yelled out on the air that the refs were "cheating the Zips" when they called the T.  I do not feel that way. 

 

However, these are 300 pound guys who are bodying for position.  Having looked at that play several times, Big Dog (our player) gave a forearm to your players back and it was nowhere near his kidney.  Now, your player was smart and acted like it was more than it was to draw the foul.  If he does not react that way in all probability a foul would not be called.  The ref saw the reaction and called the foul.  Big Dog got mad because he knew your player acted that way to draw the foul and said something to the ref and accordingly it was benign.  (See above).  The whistle for the T is heard on the replay and Bid Dog was at half court and was nowhere near the ref when the ref called the T.  That was a bad call or a homer call.  There was no reason to give a T when the player is walking away from the ref and is at half court.  If the word was that bad the ref should have called the T immediately.  I believe this is the first T that Big Dog has gotten in his 4 year career with the Zips.  He is not a hothead and the ref did your team no favor making that call since it took a competitive game away from the Zags. 

 

 

[GoZags]

4 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

 

First, Gozags, welcome to this board.  I welcome the different point of view.  Also, I had no idea that there was a replay of the game as I did want to take a second look at it so that for letting me know about the link.  Our radio commentator yelled out on the air that the refs were "cheating the Zips" when they called the T.  I do not feel that way. 

 

However, these are 300 pound guys who are bodying for position.  Having looked at that play several times, Big Dog (our player) gave a forearm to your players back and it was nowhere near his kidney.  Now, your player was smart and acted like it was more than it was to draw the foul.  If he does not react that way in all probability a foul would not be called.  The ref saw the reaction and called the foul.  Big Dog got mad because he knew your player acted that way to draw the foul and said something to the ref and accordingly it was benign.  (See above).  The whistle for the T is heard on the replay and Bid Dog was at half court and was nowhere near the ref when the ref called the T.  That was a bad call or a homer call.  There was no reason to give a T when the player is walking away from the ref and is at half court.  If the word was that bad the ref should have called the T immediately.  I believe this is the first T that Big Dog has gotten in his 4 year career with the Zips.  He is not a hothead and the ref did your team no favor making that call since it took a competitive game away from the Zags. 

 

 

 

Fair enough.  However, IF there was "acting" involved, it was the first time I've ever seen it from the 5th year senior ... who is only back this season because last year was curtailed after 5 games due to serious back injury/surgery and a subsequent staph infection that put his life in danger.. 

 

Again, I continue to maintain it wasn't that foul that took the air out of the Zips.  It was missing the first two (of three) free throws a minute or so later.  At least that's my opinion.

[1981 grad]

4 minutes ago, GoZags said:

 

Fair enough.  However, IF there was "acting" involved, it was the first time I've ever seen it from the 5th year senior ... who is only back this season because last year was curtailed after 5 games due to serious back injury/surgery and a subsequent staph infection that put his life in danger.. 

 

Again, I continue to maintain it wasn't that foul that took the air out of the Zips.  It was missing the first two (of three) free throws a minute or so later.  At least that's my opinion.

I did not know that about your center.  I am happy that the young man is back on the floor for the rest of the season and I hope that he has an injury free senior season.  Best of luck to your team the rest of the year and we hope to see you again in the NCAA tournament.

[Sportsjunkie330]

Who cares if it was a cheap call on BD or not (I happen to think it was something that the refs couldn't ignore) ..... Why was he laying a shoulder into the guy 50' away from the ball? That's the point.

[Hilltopper]

43 minutes ago, Sportsjunkie330 said:

Who cares if it was a cheap call on BD or not (I happen to think it was something that the refs couldn't ignore) ..... Why was he laying a shoulder into the guy 50' away from the ball? That's the point.

Because the underlying strategy of the whole game was which on of those big guys was going to win the battle of position in the paint. That battle started at about the 3 point  line on every possession . That is why BD was upset at the call. 

[Dr Z]

1 hour ago, Sportsjunkie330 said:

Who cares if it was a cheap call on BD or not (I happen to think it was something that the refs couldn't ignore) 

Agreed. It was a very obvious call. It doesn't matter if it was "happening all game". 

If you make it obvious when the ref is looking right at you, you force the him to call it. 

Nonissue since after the call the Zips had possession down by only 3 with a ton of time (9:18) left. Plenty of opportunity to execute. 

 

Replay of the game is on the right side of this page. (incase others missed GoZags previous post) 

 

[skip-zip]

In most of these cases, a guy is going to commit a foul like that, in that location on the floor, because he was frustrated from getting equally roughed up at the other end.  It may have very well been justified.  It often goes unnoticed, and is part of the normal action sometimes, but he got caught.  It's also unknown to any of us just how hard he hit him, or how much of an acting job was done by the recipient.  

 

But if he had just hit him and gotten a personal foul, he's at 3 and the game goes on.  The reaction that got him the Technical and his 4th foul had a far greater impact on the outcome of game, and that's what really needs to be questioned, with both the player and the officials.    

[clarkwgriswold]

There is always the "old fashioned" way of accepting the call and keeping your mouth shut.

[1981 grad]

If you watch the replay of the foul, the official does not make the call when Big Dog gives him the forearm in the back.  However, when the center reacts like he has been hammered the official then raises his hand and calls the foul. 

 

As I told Gozags in a previous post, without the players reaction the foul does not get called.  I think it was a smart play by their center.  The Zips had just cut the lead to 2, had just hit a couple of threes, and were looking to take the lead.  Why not try to draw a foul and get Big Dog in foul trouble.  Several years back we had a player, the Serb, who used to flop all the time.  If you are going to try to draw a foul, you might as well do it during a key point in the game.  However, the T was total garbage. 

[zippy5]

Man would a Zags/Zips home and home be awesome

[kreed5120]

18 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Man would a Zags/Zips home and home be awesome

 

It would be awesome and I'd love to see it happen, but I won't believe it that contract is signed and both schools publicly report it.

 

Edit: To clarify Gonzaga has secured home and homes in the recent past against teams like Arizona and UCLA. Signing a home and home with Akron would almost seem like a downgrade, especially since they know Akron can be bought.

Edited December 13, 2016 by kreed5120

[Captain Kangaroo]

35 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Man would a Zags/Zips home and home be awesome

If it happened, you'd have to believe it would be held in Cleveland. No way Gonzaga plays in the JAR. Maybe Gonzaga Pine Bluff or West Gonzaga State would, but not Gonzaga.

[kreed5120]

47 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

If it happened, you'd have to believe it would be held in Cleveland. No way Gonzaga plays in the JAR. Maybe Gonzaga Pine Bluff or West Gonzaga State would, but not Gonzaga.

 

If that's what it would take, I'd gladly make the trip to Cleveland for that game. Depth perception from our perimeter shooters is often used as a reason why we at times struggle from 3 when it comes to us having to play in the Q in March. Getting a game there in the regular season would only make our players feel more comfortable playing there for when the MAC tourney arrives.

[skip-zip]

1 hour ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

If it happened, you'd have to believe it would be held in Cleveland. No way Gonzaga plays in the JAR.

 

The other old guys here would certainly remember the 1987 game against Pitt when they were in the Top-5, which was played at the Richfield Coliseum.  I don't remember the attendance numbers that day, but I recall the place being maybe 1/2 to 3/4 full?  I would think a game like this in Cleveland might draw a similar crowd.  I think it would HAVE to be that large, or there's no way that we'd even be able to lobby to put it in a venue that large.  

 

As long as Gonzaga would still be highly ranked at the time, it might work.  The only other factors I can think of that may have additionally influenced that 1987 crowd was that Pitt fans were able to travel, and it was a homecoming for Akron St. V star Jerome Lane.  Plus, we had just taken that same Pitt team to the wire at the old Fitzgerald Fieldhouse in Pittsburgh the year before.  

 

Edit:

That Pitt team was #3 in the nation when they came here.  I just verified that, but wish there was some way I could get the attendance for that game.  

 

I JUST FOUND IT.......Attendance 11,365

Fun Fact:  The high scorer in that game was Sean Miller (yes, the current coach at Arizona)

Edited December 13, 2016 by skip-zip

[zippy5]

1 hour ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

If it happened, you'd have to believe it would be held in Cleveland. No way Gonzaga plays in the JAR. Maybe Gonzaga Pine Bluff or West Gonzaga State would, but not Gonzaga.

That would be okay with me

[Blue & Gold]

On 12/12/2016 at 8:28 AM, skip-zip said:

 

Having a large arena in Ft. Wayne has landed them some other good home games over the years as well.  I hope people at Akron see this. 

How about a 10,000-seat Quicken Loans/LeBron James Akron Arena.  Doesn't Dan Gilbert still owe LeBron one for his Comis Sans rant?

[skip-zip]

8 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

How about a 10,000-seat Quicken Loans/LeBron James Akron Arena.  Doesn't Dan Gilbert still owe LeBron one for his Comis Sans rant?

 

  He owes him a lot more than that.  I never would have guessed that LeBron would ever even think of coming back here and play for him again after that nonsense.  Whenever people would talk about LeBron coming back again, my response was always, "When the team is sold to a new owner".

[kreed5120]

There was no doubt in my mind LeBron would come back at some point. Even if it was just in the twilight of his career. He made his intentions clear that Akron was still his home even if he still wasn't playing in Cleveland. He would have been getting crap 20-30+ years after retirement from people in his community had he not returned and not being embraced by NEO was clearly something that bothered him.

Edited December 13, 2016 by kreed5120

[Blue & Gold]

Soooooo jealous

 

[kreed5120]

So out of plain curiosity I was wondering how Summit County was sitting with their bed tax and such since that is how the Q is receiving the bulk of its public money. As can be seen on page 12, the ASCVB is currently only running with annual an surplus of $215,000 with a huge portion of revenue eaten up by overhead.

 

https://ohioauditor.gov/auditsearch/Reports/2016/Akron-Summit_CVB_15-Summit.pdf

[skip-zip]

29 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

So out of plain curiosity I was wondering how Summit County was sitting with their bed tax and such since that is how the Q is receiving the bulk of its public money.

 

Nice job looking that up.  

I think we always get back to the same problem with this.  Cuyahoga County wanting to pull this money for the benefit of the Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Summit County wanting to pull this money for the benefit of the Zips, and other various events.  They know that it's easy to convince people up there that the Cavs and their Arena is a huge revenue generator for the City.  Unfortunately, we've already found out that this argument is not going to work here. 

[kreed5120]

47 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

Nice job looking that up.  

I think we always get back to the same problem with this.  Cuyahoga County wanting to pull this money for the benefit of the Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Summit County wanting to pull this money for the benefit of the Zips, and other various events.  They know that it's easy to convince people up there that the Cavs and their Arena is a huge revenue generator for the City.  Unfortunately, we've already found out that this argument is not going to work here. 

 

If you go to page 9 you will see Cuyahoga County's Conventions and Visitor Bureau numbers. They are netting a revenue of about $8.5M more than Akron per year and that's after contributing ~$1.5M to Gateway, $232K to the convention center, and $1.4M to the Rock HoF. They had a surplus of about $4.7M for 2015 after accounting for all expenses, A number that I imagine will skyrocket for 2016 considering the number of hotels they opened and the rooms they had filled for the RNC.

 

Long story short Cuyahoga County has a huge surplus in bed tax money to spend so spending it on the venue that can bring it large conventions, like the RNC, makes sense. Summit County pretty much has their bed tax eaten up via overhead. Salaries, property insurance, utilities, food services, repair and maintenance, & Supplies eats up 75%+ of what they collect. That doesn't really leave them with any room to finance any large scale arena (or anything for that matter). Cuyahoga County doesn't need to put a new tax on the ballot to fund an arena because it already has revenue generating from a preexisting one to fund it. Summit County would need a new tax as it doesn't have anywhere to pull that money from.

 

http://ohioauditor.gov/auditsearch/Reports/2016/CVB_of_Greater_Cleveland_15-Cuyahoga.pdf

Edited December 14, 2016 by kreed5120