Game 23—@Ohio University

[jupitertoo]

The only future of daily newspapers (beyond the NYT and Washington Post) is to be hyper-local, with lots of names/faces and really strong coverage of stories the internet and national media can't touch.  That seems to be lost on the folks at 44 East Exchange.  Black Media paid way too much for the paper and has decimated the staff/morale to try to limit their losses.

[UAZip0510]

A few things:

 

- Craig Eubanks is close with Jimond Ivey and several other players...I'm not sure of the full details, but his leaving the team surely impacts the others' relationship with Groce.

 

- John Groce has never been a great coach.  He is, however, a fantastic recruiter.  I was hoping for better this year, and I think it would have been with Sayles and Olojakpoke healthy, but this season was always going to be rough. It will only get better when Groce attracts the top talent he has the ability to bring in.

 

- The "KD screwed us" line of thought doesn't hold up.  Mike Hughes and Tavian-Dunn Martin were the only one's that followed him.  Josh, Noah, and Antino were always going to go and there's nothing KD could have done to change that.

 

[NWAkron]

3 minutes ago, UAZip0510 said:

A few things:

 

- Craig Eubanks is close with Jimond Ivey and several other players...I'm not sure of the full details, but his leaving the team surely impacts the others' relationship with Groce.

 

- John Groce has never been a great coach.  He is, however, a fantastic recruiter.  I was hoping for better this year, and I think it would have been with Sayles and Olojakpoke healthy, but this season was always going to be rough. It will only get better when Groce attracts the top talent he has the ability to bring in.

 

- The "KD screwed us" line of thought doesn't hold up.  Mike Hughes and Tavian-Dunn Martin were the only one's that followed him.  Josh, Noah, and Antino were always going to go and there's nothing KD could have done to change that.

 

These guys hopefully will learn that life isn't always fair and that the key to survival and success is being able to ADAPT to a new environment.  That could be a new boss, a new co-worker, a new family member.  A NEW COACH.  NEW TEAMMATES.

 

Maybe it's time for a new thread.

[Blue & Gold]

20 minutes ago, jupitertoo said:

The only future of daily newspapers (beyond the NYT and Washington Post) is to be hyper-local, with lots of names/faces and really strong coverage of stories the internet and national media can't touch.  That seems to be lost on the folks at 44 East Exchange.  Black Media paid way too much for the paper and has decimated the staff/morale to try to limit their losses.

 

Thaaaaaank you.

 

I remember... oh, maybe 15 years ago... the AKRON Beacon Journal had a consultant come in & speak about the future of newspapers as media.  They published at least one major story about his forecasting.  The term he used over and over again was "hyper-local."  

 

And then... the AKRON Beacon Journal kept doing business as usual continuing their focus on Cleveland and Columbus.  

 

(Hmm, I can't seem to find the emoticon of the little fella beating his head against the brick wall. Too bad, because he would be pertinent right here.)

[Blue & Gold]

21 minutes ago, UAZip0510 said:

- ...Josh, Noah, and Antino were always going to go and there's nothing KD could have done to change that.

 

If I remember correctly, wasn't Antino hanging his head a lot by the end of last season?  I think there were rumors of his imminent transfer while KD was still the Zips' coach.

[skip-zip]

11 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

These guys hopefully will learn that life isn't always fair and that the key to survival and success is being able to ADAPT to a new environment.  That could be a new boss, a new co-worker, a new family member. 

 

Sure.  That's why all of us more mature adults stay in the same job all of our lives, just like our parents.  And all of us stay married to the same person all of our lives too, just like our parents. 

 

I'm not going to criticize any of these guys for doing the same thing that all of the rest of us are doing in today's world to improve our lives.  

[skip-zip]

18 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

The term he used over and over again was "hyper-local."  

 

And then... the AKRON Beacon Journal kept doing business as usual continuing their focus on Cleveland and Columbus.  

 

They think they are just reaching out to serve local people who care about what's going in in Columbus and Cleveland.  I see it as a desperate,short-term strategy that will ultimately backfire.  

[Blue & Gold]

2 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

They think they are just reaching out to serve local people who care about what's going in in Columbus and Cleveland.  I see it as a desperate,short-term strategy that will ultimately backfire.  

Even their inter webs name betrays their betrayal of being Akron-centric: Ohio dot com.

 

Cleveland Plain Dealer's website = CLEVELAND dot com

Canton Repository's website = CANTONrep dot com

Akron Beacon's website = OHIO dot com

 

Screw you, Ohio Beacon Journal...

 

Again, where's the Beating-My-Head-Against-The-Brick-Wall emoticon?!

[UAZip0510]

15 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

If I remember correctly, wasn't Antino hanging his head a lot by the end of last season?  I think there were rumors of his imminent transfer while KD was still the Zips' coach.

 

Antino wasn't happy most of last season.  He didn't like sharing point duties with Noah.  He also felt he should have been featured more on offense. 

[Captain Kangaroo]

4 minutes ago, UAZip0510 said:

 

Antino wasn't happy most of last season.  He didn't like sharing point duties with Noah.  He also felt he should have been featured more on offense. 

Now he's featured for 23 minutes per game on a 12-13 New Mexico team. Hope he's happy.

[Joe Akron]

37 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

These guys hopefully will learn that life isn't always fair and that the key to survival and success is being able to ADAPT to a new environment.  That could be a new boss, a new co-worker, a new family member.  A NEW COACH.  NEW TEAMMATES.

 

Maybe it's time for a new thread.

 

19 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

Sure.  That's why all of us more mature adults stay in the same job all of our lives, just like our parents.  And all of us stay married to the same person all of our lives too, just like our parents. 

 

I'm not going to criticize any of these guys for doing the same thing that all of the rest of us are doing in today's world to improve our lives.  

 

So staying married to the same person is a "failure to adapt"? I'm thinking you might have stretched that analogy just a wee bit..

[1981 grad]

Why has this team gotten worse as the season has progressed?  I know that we had 2 of our 3 centers get injured.  Poke going down hurt us because he was a shot blocker.  If somebody got past their man he could alter a shot.  Sayles was another big man and played well in spurts.  However, neither player was a star and both did not contribute consistent offense.  It seems to me last night that if somebody drove to the middle everyone collapsed to the paint leaving guys open at the 3 line.  The commentator last night indicated that Ohio was playing inside out.  I saw Cotton leave Darvis open to defend in the paint and I thought that was crazy.  Darvis made some tough shots but many were wide open because his man had collapsed in the paint.

 

On offense, Groce"s set offense is not producing any points or open looks.  Klac sets a high screeen, rolls to the basket and never sees the ball.   Last night there was one penetration and dish off to him and he hesitated and then tripped.  A lot of perimeter passing and dribbling.  When we do penetrate, their center sits in the lane and often blocks our shot. It looks to me that Jimond and Duvivier realize that the set offense is not producing anything and they are driving to the basket, shooting a 3, and trying to make something happen.  Groce is getting upset because they are not running the offense and then sits them down.  Lucas Smith may be a great hustler but offensively he is not a skilled player.

 

I thought this team would hold their own in the MAC because they were athletic and well coached.  I noticed in the beginning of the season that we never took quick 3 point shots and always ran offense.  Based on what I have seen the last two games, I feel like this team may not win another game.  I hope I am wrong. 

[skip-zip]

10 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

Why has this team gotten worse as the season has progressed?

 

 

I thought this team would hold their own in the MAC because they were athletic and well coached.  I noticed in the beginning of the season that we never took quick 3 point shots and always ran offense.  Based on what I have seen the last two games, I feel like this team may not win another game.

 

I completely agree with you.  Losing Sayles and Poke would not have converted the beatings we took the last 3 games into wins. 

 

I lay most of the blame on the selfishness that comes with losing.  Maybe the Coach has made mistakes too.  We all tend to judge coaching within a season in terms of how a team improves during the season.

 

And while you focus on this notion of supreme athleticism, I'd suggest that maybe you focus a little more on the fact that we just don't have enough good basketball players to win a lot more games than we've won this year.   My opinion or your opinion of how "athletic" these guys are really doesn't mean anything if they aren't good enough basketball players.  

 

I don't think they will lose all of the rest of their games.  But, the wheels are definitely off.    

[NWAkron]

It's probably a combination of everything above.  Ugh it does remind me of the movie Hoosiers.   The one player didn't like the sets and so he started taking quick shots.  Gene Hackman benched him.  Too bad we can't make all our issues better in the course of 2 hours like in the movies.

[skip-zip]

I hear that.

 

I'm just disappointed that progress has not been made, and it makes me sick to think that we might essentially be re-starting again next year from an even lower point than we started this year.  

[NWAkron]

20 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

I hear that.

 

I'm just disappointed that progress has not been made, and it makes me sick to think that we might essentially be re-starting again next year from an even lower point than we started this year.  

Yeah.   Miami seems to be doing ok in their rebuild.  But we will drive ourselves crazier than we aready are if we try to make comparisons like that.   We have a passionate coach mixing with some willful players.  I keep in mind that if the goal is a 19 win season and maybe a a short run in the MAC tourney each year then maybe you can let the best players run the show so you can just win enough to keep the fan base basically happy.  But if this coach was hired to make something dominant and great then the harsh medicine is necessary.

Edited February 7, 2018 by NWAkron

[Captain Kangaroo]

How many games would Dambrot have won last season if he'd lost Kwan, Noah, Antino, Big Dog, Poke and Dunn-Martin? That's about what Groce is up against right now.

 

I liked what I saw from Groce and the kids when we had 75% of a full complement of scholarship players. But when we're down to 54% of the scholarship players everyone else has, you start to feel like the black knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail.

 

We can can bleed on the opponent. But with no arms and one leg, that's about the only option we've got.

 

[UAZip0510]

5 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

How many games would Dambrot have won last season if he'd lost Kwan, Noah, Antino, Big Dog, Poke and Dunn-Martin? That's about what Groce is up against right now.

 

I liked what I saw from Groce and the kids when we had 75% of a full complement of scholarship players. But when we're down to 54% of the scholarship players everyone else has, you start to feel like the black knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail.

 

We can can bleed on the opponent. But with no arms and one leg, that's about the only option we've got.

 

 

I think we'd at least be around .500 in the MAC, if we're being honest.  

[1981 grad]

1 hour ago, skip-zip said:

 

I completely agree with you.  Losing Sayles and Poke would not have converted the beatings we took the last 3 games into wins. 

 

I lay most of the blame on the selfishness that comes with losing.  Maybe the Coach has made mistakes too.  We all tend to judge coaching within a season in terms of how a team improves during the season.

 

And while you focus on this notion of supreme athleticism, I'd suggest that maybe you focus a little more on the fact that we just don't have enough good basketball players to win a lot more games than we've won this year.   My opinion or your opinion of how "athletic" these guys are really doesn't mean anything if they aren't good enough basketball players.  

 

I don't think they will lose all of the rest of their games.  But, the wheels are definitely off.    

Jimond, Duvivier and Utomi are talented basketball players.  Cotten, Parish and Patton are good basketball players but are frosh and should be playing 5-10 minutes a game until they can understand the college game.  They are not getting more confidant as the season progresses.  After Cotten made that game winner I thought he would improve each game.    I am not sure about Klac and only time will tell.  None of the frosh has become a consistent player as the season has progressed.  I believe Smith is just a hustle guy and he is great as a walkon.   What surprised me last night is the team in the 2nd half did better running the offense with 2 walk ons than the starting 5.  I think that was the only positive to this game.  

 

[Illini Zip]

2 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

Why has this team gotten worse as the season has progressed?  I know that we had 2 of our 3 centers get injured.  Poke going down hurt us because he was a shot blocker.  If somebody got past their man he could alter a shot.  Sayles was another big man and played well in spurts.  However, neither player was a star and both did not contribute consistent offense.  It seems to me last night that if somebody drove to the middle everyone collapsed to the paint leaving guys open at the 3 line.  The commentator last night indicated that Ohio was playing inside out.  I saw Cotton leave Darvis open to defend in the paint and I thought that was crazy.  Darvis made some tough shots but many were wide open because his man had collapsed in the paint.

 

On offense, Groce"s set offense is not producing any points or open looks.  Klac sets a high screeen, rolls to the basket and never sees the ball.   Last night there was one penetration and dish off to him and he hesitated and then tripped.  A lot of perimeter passing and dribbling.  When we do penetrate, their center sits in the lane and often blocks our shot. It looks to me that Jimond and Duvivier realize that the set offense is not producing anything and they are driving to the basket, shooting a 3, and trying to make something happen.  Groce is getting upset because they are not running the offense and then sits them down.  Lucas Smith may be a great hustler but offensively he is not a skilled player.

 

I thought this team would hold their own in the MAC because they were athletic and well coached.  I noticed in the beginning of the season that we never took quick 3 point shots and always ran offense.  Based on what I have seen the last two games, I feel like this team may not win another game.  I hope I am wrong. 

 

Great summary 1981 Grad and you are correct, they are playing worse. They are not playing team defense and missing their assignments. They didn't follow Clarkswgriswold's scouting report which was obviously on point. On offense there is way too much hero ball and there is no ball movement or a general sense of purpose on the court. Even without a full roster, this team is underachieving.

 

Groce's teams always improved at Illinois, even though some years they collapsed before the post-season due to exhaustion trying to over-come injuries/set backs. This team due to a lack of leadership, competitiveness, pride and coachability has hit a wall early on and now it's spiraling out of control. My guess is there is a cancer in the locker room that will not exist next year. It might be one of our best players. It might be 4 of of our best players. Nobody is safe going into next year and they all had better be prepared to compete against walk-ons for the rest of the season because it's obvious to me that Groce is prioritizing culture over wins at this point.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Illini Zip

[Captain Kangaroo]

16 minutes ago, UAZip0510 said:

I think we'd at least be around .500 in the MAC, if we're being honest.  

With 7 scholarship players? No chance.

 

 

[clarkwgriswold]

I need to remind myself to look back on my original expectations of this team when I start getting bogged down in their current plight.  I thought they were a 15 to 18 win team.  I thought they would beat the "lower" teams in the MAC, maybe split with the middle of the pack and lose to the better teams.  With the OOC record, 15 wins was a reasonable expectation.  With the injuries to the two big men, a 3 to 5 game variance from a 15 win season can't be unexpected.  As such, I need to temper my enthusiasm when they do well as well as my disappointment when they lose.

 

At the end of the day, we've been damn spoiled.  Also,  the OOC schedule really got our hopes up.  Looking to the future...sigh...

[NWAkron]

45 minutes ago, UAZip0510 said:

 

I think we'd at least be around .500 in the MAC, if we're being honest.  

Do you use a crystal ball or a ouiji board? 

[clarkwgriswold]

Just now, NWAkron said:

Do you use a crystal ball or a ouiji board? 

 

I read John Groce's palm, from the stands with a telescope.

 

I've also had visions of you getting blasted yet again by the t-shirt cannon.  That could be: 1) my psychic abilities; or 2) wishful thinking.  

[NWAkron]

1 minute ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

I read John Groce's palm, from the stands with a telescope.

 

I've also had visions of you getting blasted yet again by the t-shirt cannon.  That could be: 1) my psychic abilities; or 2) wishful thinking.  

Wow.  I was just going to write about how much I enjoy your insight.  I was referring to 0510s post BTW.

 

On a positive note, our chance of winning a 1500 jewelry item is going up if attendance wanes.  The t shirt cannon to the chest was definitely symbolic.