Game 31—@WMU [MAC Tourney Rnd 1]

[LZIp]

14 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

Not surprisingly, this board was silent last night when I asked if anyone here wanted to reaffirm their belief that "referees shouldn't decide games" by blowing a whistle right before the buzzer. 

 

At least for right now, based on the evidence presented Friday and Monday night, I think I have to reluctantly side with those who insist that officiating evens out over time.  But I'm sure I will change that stance again if the situation warrants on Thursday night.  
      

Go away troll.

On 12/15/2014 at 1:24 PM, skip-zip said:

Instead of just saying "the officiating was awful", I'll focus on a few specific things that bothered me on Saturday.

1) It could NOT have been the case that nearly every time we drove to the basket, it was a charge, and every time MT drove to the basket, it was called a block. That's just not possible.

2) The palming call on Forsythe was just bizarre. Flat out bizarre. Again, if you are going to call it there, then call it the entire game. Or leave it alone.

3) MT loved to jump on the back of Zips players on rebounds. True, it was a physical game. But, other than the one where Nyles grabbed a rebound and was pushed out of bounds, I don't think it was ever called.

 

On 12/15/2014 at 3:06 PM, skip-zip said:

Not only that, Dave. But in response to Zippy5's solution, I can understand encouraging your players to match another team's physical play, but I don't know any coach who would ever "adjust" by telling his players to go ahead and commit similar fouls just because the other team is not being called for the same fouls. I am certain that Keith would have just wanted the obvious fouls to be called.

 

On 1/10/2015 at 10:28 AM, skip-zip said:

By rule, it's a technical. But what really got my interest is that someone of Nyles' demeanor did this. That tells me there was a lot of frustration with the way the game was being called. French even mentioned afterwards that he was likely tired of getting hand-checked and bumped the entire game without a call. I will agree with those who feel that the officiating seemed one sided for similar type of play, but that it did not cost us this game.

 

On 3/3/2015 at 9:31 PM, skip-zip said:

Time to bump this back up again.

I think Keith is going to get fined after tonight. The officiating problem seems to have finally gotten to him, and he openly talked about it in the postgame radio interview.

We've only had TWO games all year where we got more FT attempts than our opponents. And, we've shot 116 fewer FTs.

The play where Kwan doesn't get a foul call going to the basket, but Kretzer getting a foul on the rebound seemed particularly frustrating to him.

 

On 3/3/2015 at 10:18 PM, skip-zip said:

A differential of 116 FTs isn't what I would define as "evening itself out"

 

On 3/12/2015 at 5:30 AM, skip-zip said:

I like how your response to Dave's post escalates rather quickly from speculation and uncertainty to insisting that you are certain that you know the intensions of an official who you don't even know.

You're dead wrong if you think certain officials don't have a problem with certain coaches, players, or teams. The extent to which any of them allow those feelings to influence their decision making is the only question.

 

On 3/14/2015 at 12:59 AM, skip-zip said:

I remember when Keith kept pointing and yelling at that official during a 2nd half timeout.

He also talked in the postgame about an instance where an official raised his arm to indicate a foul, didn't blow the whistle, and then allowed the play to go on, which is unacceptable.

I wonder if this all had to do with the same incident, and if anyone can tell us the specific non-call that this involved?

 

On 3/14/2015 at 10:09 AM, skip-zip said:

For those who think that MAC officiating is just bad, all around, I want to give you a good example. This particular situation victimized us on several occasions last night, but it's still a great example.

When two guys have both of their hands wrapped around a rebound, it's OK to call that a Jump Ball. Fine. But in one instance, you can't call that a Jump Ball, and decide in another instance that it's OK to wait a few seconds to see if one of the players can rip it out of another player's hands. It's nowhere near the subjective situation that often occurs with a Charge/Block call. And if someone has an arm hooked under another player's arm during the held ball, it can't be a foul in one instance, and a Jump Ball in another.

I think most people would agree that they just want consistency throughout the course of the game so that the players decide the outcome, and they were all over the place on this one last night.

[Let'sGoZips94]

1 hour ago, LZIp said:

I watched the replay last night after embarrassingly giving up on the team. Holy smokes we blew what...a 7 point lead in 30 seconds? You hate to see that happen, but both of the turnovers were more a result of WMU making great plays in my opinion. Then the WMU guy hits that insane falling down bank 3!!!!!! Then Wilder of all people bailed us out by fouling Cotton on his drive. Of cource Cotton had the stones to hit those 2 FTs (and a nice cross over/step back 3 with a few mins left). Finally, Patton makes a play on the in bounds pass and of course it goes out of bounds and gives them the ball in a good spot with time left. Nothing is ever easy with this team, but they sure make it fun to watch.

 

For those of us that didn't give up and watched the game live, we thank you for this recap. 

 

48 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

It is a shame that Western only had around 9 people in attendance to watch that game.  It was a classic.  I said early in this thread that this team revolves around Utomi and he had another amazing offensive game.  The offense always seems to click when we play the ball through him.  This team outrebounded us by 10 in the first meeting and this game the rebounding was even with a much smaller lineup.  Like I said before, size does not matter.  Groce has these guys boxing out and hustling for the rebound.  Most of the defensive rebounds the Zips had 3 guys around the ball.

 

I was really surprised to see that Parrish only had 4 points.  I thought he played a great game.  Patton and Cotton supplied the scoring.  The Zips have now won 2 close games in a row with buzzer beater foul shots.  I cannot remember that ever happening before.  So much for refs swallowing their whistles at the end.  We should have a moratorium on ref complaints considering the last 2 games.  

 

FIFY

 

20 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Did anyone else get the momentary panic when Virshon went flying into the basket padding on the last foul, envisioning WMU picking the last guy on the bench to shoot the free throws for an injured Virshon?

 

I didn't think that deep, but I was afraid he got hurt. More importantly, the whistle wasn't very obvious right away, so it took me a quick second to realize they actually called the foul.

 

16 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

Not surprisingly, this board was silent last night when I asked if anyone here wanted to reaffirm their belief that "referees shouldn't decide games" by blowing a whistle right before the buzzer. 

 

At least for right now, based on the evidence presented Friday and Monday night, I think I have to reluctantly side with those who insist that officiating evens out over time.  But I'm sure I will change that stance again if the situation warrants on Thursday night.  
      

 

Calling obvious fouls is their job. It's the ticky-tack, inconsistent crap throughout a game that people take issue with.

 

15 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

There were times in the middle of the season that I worried Groce may be on the cusp of losing them.  Just their body language looked bad when they were down.  From those slumped shoulders and rolled eyes, Groce rallied this team to where they've now won the two most important games of the year.

 

It cannot be stated enough how great of a job Groce has done coaching this year. It helps make the future look really, really bright. Also, the MAC is taking notice, evident by Can't State's and OU's message boards. 

[skip-zip]

3 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Calling obvious fouls is their job. It's the ticky-tack, inconsistent crap throughout a game that people take issue with.

 

Calling ANY foul is technically their job.  I was just addressing how people's perceptions can be so much different after a win, vs. after a loss.   

 

I completely agree with you on the 2nd part.  

[Blue & Gold]

 

[Blue & Gold]

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Blue & Gold

[Blue & Gold]

 

[skip-zip]

1 hour ago, 1981 grad said:

It is a shame that Western only had around 900 people in attendance to watch that game.

 

I have no recollection of what these "play in" games have draw in this league in the past.  I know we've had a couple of them at the JAR over the last decade or so, and I can't remember how good/bad it was. 

 

But I can tell you that the other 3 games only drew between about 1400 and 2000. 

 

 

[Let'sGoZips94]

1 minute ago, skip-zip said:

 

I have no recollection of what these "play in" games have draw in this league in the past.  I know we've had a couple of them at the JAR over the last decade or so, and I can't remember how good/bad it was. 

 

But I can tell you that the other 3 games only drew between about 1400 and 2000. 

 

 

 

I saw on here that WMU is on spring break? 

[UAZip0510]

After sleeping on it, a few thoughts:

 

1) I'm super impressed by this team's never-give-up mentality.  It would have been easy to give in and/or lose composure at 18-0 and they didn't.  It says a lot about our guys.

 

2) Duvivier needs to create more and shoot less.  He shouldn't be taking more shots than Utomi or even Cotton.

 

3) Speaking of Cotton/Parrish, they were tremendous off of the bench.  I can't believe how well Cotton has played.  We may end up pretty stacked at the guard position next year.

 

4) The 18-0 start and almost giving away the game at the end are worrisome.  If you do that against better teams, your season will be over.  This team still scares me when trying to finish games, although it's to be expected with so much inexperience on the roster.

 

5) No matter what happens Thursday, I think this can be an important building block.  I'm thrilled our youngsters get to experience The Q, and think that, at worst in a case where they lose, it will give them a huge motivator to get back and win it next year.  

 

6) Really wish this forum could move on from last spring/summer...still too much pro-KD vs anti-KD.  Is it too much to ask for the anti crowd to just move on from that era and the pro crowd to keep all KD discussion to the appropriate thread? Too much bickering in here after a big win when everyone should be happy and united.

 

Go Zips! 

[tboned]

Nice win!  I had to turn Frenchy  off. He is way to negative.  I watched the ESPN feed.  I was impressed! 

[clarkwgriswold]

4 minutes ago, UAZip0510 said:

6) Really wish this forum could move on from last spring/summer...still too much pro-KD vs anti-KD.  Is it too much to ask for the anti crowd to just move on from that era and the pro crowd to keep all KD discussion to the appropriate thread? Too much bickering in here after a big win when everyone should be happy and united.

 

Go Zips! 

 

Amen.

 

 

[Dr Z]

16 minutes ago, tboned said:

Nice win!  I had to turn Frenchy  off. He is way to negative. 

Steve admitted, and apologized for giving up after the game was over. Sports can bring out some crazy emotions. Hope we can all stay on an emotional high this weekend. 

[UAZip0510]

21 minutes ago, Dr Z said:

Steve admitted, and apologized for giving up after the game was over. Sports can bring out some crazy emotions. Hope we can all stay on an emotional high this weekend. 

 

It's funny...last night I proclaimed the season over and turned off the feed.  Two minutes later I had gamecast up on my phone.  Five minutes later I had the game back on TV.  It's tough to invest in a team/program and not get too high or low.  I do my best but it doesn't always work ?

[kreed5120]

I admit I wrote the Zips off and didn't watch. To those that didn't lose hope and watched I'm glad you were treated to a good game 

 

Looking at the box score it seems Cotton and Utomi picked the best time of the year to play perhaps their best game of the season. I'm glad to see we pulled off the win. I still don't think we have a chance in hell of making the tournament, but making it to Cleveland should provide good experience for our team in future years.

Edited March 6, 2018 by kreed5120

[clarkwgriswold]

I kept it on.  I'm not sure why, other than I apparently didn't have anything else to do (AKA don't have a life).

[tboned]

12 minutes ago, UAZip0510 said:

 

It's funny...last night I proclaimed the season over and turned off the feed.  Two minutes later I had gamecast up on my phone.  Five minutes later I had the game back on TV.  It's tough to invest in a team/program and not get too high or low.  I do my best but it doesn't always work ?

I admit I did turn Frenchy back on for the last few seconds of the game.  The radio feed is several seconds ahead of the ESPN feed. I couldn't wait to see if we would win!!!!!

[Dr Z]

if you didn't watch the game last night, it is worth going back and watching how it ended. I would start at the WMU bank-shot three. 1:43:00 mark. 

Reading the play by play, or looking at the box score does not give credit to the effort put forth. 

 

1 hour ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

I saw on here that WMU is on spring break? 

So was Thomas Wilder's three point shot. ?

 

 

 

[tboned]

We shall fight at the Arena!!! We shall fight at the JAR!!! We shall fight at the Q!!!!!!!  "We shall never ever surrender".

[akronzips71]

4 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Did anyone else get the momentary panic when Virshon went flying into the basket padding on the last foul, envisioning WMU picking the last guy on the bench to shoot the free throws for an injured Virshon?

The other team gets to pick who shoots? I never knew about that rule.

[1981 grad]

As bad as things were I never gave up on the Zips.  I kept hoping that they could get it back down to 10 by the half.  Never expected the 17-0 run.  The Zips played some great basketball to get in it.  I also knew when they had the 12 point lead in the second half this game was not over.

[clarkwgriswold]

40 minutes ago, akronzips71 said:

The other team gets to pick who shoots? I never knew about that rule.

 

Yep.

[Let'sGoZips94]

40 minutes ago, akronzips71 said:

The other team gets to pick who shoots? I never knew about that rule.

 

It prevents a 50% free throw shooter from faking an injury so his team can choose an 80%+ free throw shooter. 

[Zip Watcher]

13 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

It prevents a 50% free throw shooter from faking an injury so his team can choose an 80%+ free throw shooter. 

 

Not sure if that rule applies in college or not, but it is an NBA thing.  Chris Dudley had free throw attempts in games in the 80's in which he logged zero minutes.

 

This situation helped me in a tournament game with a 7th grade team I coach.  One of our less confident shooters got hurt in a segment where my best one was on the bench.  I was able to put an 80% shooter on the line for 2 easy ones in a close game.  

[zippy5]

1 hour ago, akronzips71 said:

The other team gets to pick who shoots? I never knew about that rule.

Think they have to pick from the 4 on the floor though

[zippy5]

Also I think if it's a flagrant or a T they don't get to pick