MAC Tournament Game 2: Buffalo

[1981 grad]

13 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

I watched the CMU game at home and noticed that the Chipps could throw a pass to their center in the paint and he wouldn't drop the ball.   FWIW Riak is battling a couple bad injuries.  Remember he screwed up his shoulder in Cayman.  Groce has some tough decisions to make with Sayles, Riak, and Eman.  Having 3 physically compromised centers on the team isn't going to get the Zips too far.

In his frosh year E man had a few games where he had some nice offense and post up moves.   Early in the season I also remember Riak posting up and at least make an attempt at scoring.  It seems that all of our centers digressed on offense.  Does Groce have anyone who works with these guys.  Maybe we need an asst. big man coach who know how to make centers better on offense.

[NWAkron]

21 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

In his frosh year E man had a few games where he had some nice offense and post up moves.   Early in the season I also remember Riak posting up and at least make an attempt at scoring.  It seems that all of our centers digressed on offense.  Does Groce have anyone who works with these guys.  Maybe we need an asst. big man coach who know how to make centers better on offense.

Or just find some tough, uninjured centers.

[akronzips71]

45 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

I watched the CMU game at home and noticed that the Chipps could throw a pass to their center in the paint and he wouldn't drop the ball.   FWIW Riak is battling a couple bad injuries.  Remember he screwed up his shoulder in Cayman.  Groce has some tough decisions to make with Sayles, Riak, and Eman.  Having 3 physically compromised centers on the team isn't going to get the Zips too far.

He needs to come up with a 6'11" 250 pounder plus who knows how to post up rebound and get put backs.

Until then we are just more of the same.

The "guard based offense" does NOT work when the only guy who goes to the basket is not even 5'8"

[Blue & Gold]

1 hour ago, NWAkron said:

Or just find some tough, uninjured centers.

Who can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[zippy5]

12 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

Who can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Riak came here to miss layups and chew gum and he's all out of gum

[zippy5]

2 hours ago, ubxcretired said:

First off - I was surprised by how one sided this one was.  After the regular season, Akron was the team I really didn't want to play early in the tourny.  For you guys, if the 3s start falling and the slow down defense puts UB on their heels, its a worrisome match up.

 

And - I fully expect Akron (especially with Groce's history and recruiting abilities) to reload over the next couple of years and rise back towards the top of the MAC.  I detested Dambrot, probably because of how much he beat us but will admit that a close game with Akron makes for a fun afternoon.

 

That said - the UB coach is Nate Oats.  No E

.

And - to suggest that he inherited a great situation at Buffalo is revisionist history.  After Hurley was hired away - Shannon Evans immediately announces he's going with him to Arizona State, JUCO recruits Maurice O'Field and Torian Graham de-commit to do the same.  Nate Navigato de-commits to head off and join the rockets.  To top it all off, reigning MAC POTY Justin Moss gets busted during the summer stealing from some football players and is booted out of school.

 

So - Oats started with a blown up roster, recruits Nick Perkins and CJ Massinburg, hits on a couple of JUCOs, and rolls on from there.  I'm sure for an Akron fan - this was a bummer of a season.  But I fully expect Groce will follow a similar path back to the upper portion of the conference.

[zippy5]

On a serious note, it appears he stepped into a less favorable situation than I thought. However, inheriting Massinburg and Perkins isn't so bad either. 

[kreed5120]

10 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

On a serious note, it appears he stepped into a less favorable situation than I thought. However, inheriting Massinburg and Perkins isn't so bad either. 

Massinburg actually didn't commit to Buffalo until a month after Oats was hired. He didn't inherit him.

[zippy5]

Read that post wrong. Just forget I said anything besides the meme. I stand by cigarette LeBron

[Let'sGoZips94]

1 hour ago, akronzips71 said:

He needs to come up with a 6'11" 250 pounder plus who knows how to post up rebound and get put backs.

Until then we are just more of the same.

The "guard based offense" does NOT work when the only guy who goes to the basket is not even 5'8"

 

I really enjoyed 4 years of 0 NCAA Tourney appearances with Big Dog. Also not a fair description of the offense. Cheese is aggressive to the hoop, Ivey can take it to the hole - essentially every guard/forward we have drives. The issues stem from their ability to finish, but another off-season of working on their games should help fix that issue.  

 

It's impossible to grade Groce completely until he gets his guys in here. If your issue is the height of our main PG, look at the recruits he has targeted - the majority are aggressive 6'2" guards. 

 

Our issues today were 100% offense, and based on the highlight tapes of the recruits we have coming in/he's targeting, that shouldn't be an issue going forward. You're also dealing with a team that had 2 players - 2 - with Quicken Loans Arena experience. I think the moment was a bit big for the "rookies", and that happens. 

 

Groce's runs at OU consisted of guard-based play with athletic forwards/centers. I don't believe he had a single player above 6'8"/6'9", and they gave our bigger lineups all we could handle. Buffalo is literally a carbon copy of Groce's OU squads (albeit slightly better all-around talent). There is a recipe for success there, and we'll get to that level I believe. 

[clarkwgriswold]

2 hours ago, akronzips71 said:

He needs to come up with a 6'11" 250 pounder plus who knows how to post up rebound and get put backs.

Until then we are just more of the same.

The "guard based offense" does NOT work when the only guy who goes to the basket is not even 5'8"

 

90% of teams could use that.  I can think of only 2 teams in Ohio, Cinci and Toledo, that have 6"11"  kid that contributes.

[zippyfan34]

For what is worth Dambrot and his Dukes lost their first tourney game to 6-12 conference foe St. Joes.

[zippy5]

Hate to see it

[1981 grad]

1 hour ago, zippyfan34 said:

For what is worth Dambrot and his Dukes lost their first tourney game to 6-12 conference foe St. Joes.

The Dukes ended up 19-13.  Needed that win to hit 20.

[kreed5120]

9 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

The Dukes ended up 19-13.  Needed that win to hit 20.

Dambrot will probably go to the CIT to get it.

[NWAkron]

Nice watching a decent officiating crew for the BG/BSU game 

[Akronfan111]

8 hours ago, bigzipguy said:

Got to get some really quality big men

This coaching staff has no idea what to do with big men - why would a big man ever come to us again.  Pathetic.

[akronzips71]

34 minutes ago, Akronfan111 said:

This coaching staff has no idea what to do with big men - why would a big man ever come to us again.  Pathetic.

A good freshman big could get 35 minutes a night right away.

[Zip44]

Cannot believe you are comparing & accepting Groce  to Dambrot!!

dambrot inherited the bad teams a from Hipsher that never got beyond 1at round in MAC.

his 1st rebuilding year was 19-11 

2nd year was 22 wins followed by 11 more 22+ wins in a row with 9 MAC Championship games. 

As Thad Matta stated to me why he would not recommend Groce, his long time asst:

  Dambrot’s conf record was over .700

Groce’ combined conf record in MAC & Big 10 combined is below .500.

Remember, Akron was only school that would offer him a job after his debacle at Illinois.

So don’t expect more than mediocrity.

 

[dre22era]

1 hour ago, Zip44 said:

Cannot believe you are comparing & accepting Groce  to Dambrot!!

dambrot inherited the bad teams a from Hipsher that never got beyond 1at round in MAC.

his 1st rebuilding year was 19-11 

2nd year was 22 wins followed by 11 more 22+ wins in a row with 9 MAC Championship games. 

As Thad Matta stated to me why he would not recommend Groce, his long time asst:

  Dambrot’s conf record was over .700

Groce’ combined conf record in MAC & Big 10 combined is below .500.

Remember, Akron was only school that would offer him a job after his debacle at Illinois.

So don’t expect more than mediocrity.

 

Finally someone with "Common Sense"

I been preaching this all along. 

The fact that we settled with Ohio U's leftovers that couldn't do squat at a Big Ten School infuriates me to the core and now we are back to defending and capping for mediocrity. 

Groce needs his own guys this Groce needs his own guys that. Yall gonna say the same BS after we get the same results in year 3? smh 

The fact that Groce ended the season with more timeouts in his pocket than Wins should tell you right there what he is and will continue to be.  

[clarkwgriswold]

8 hours ago, Zip44 said:

Cannot believe you are comparing & accepting Groce  to Dambrot!!

dambrot inherited the bad teams a from Hipsher that never got beyond 1at round in MAC.

his 1st rebuilding year was 19-11 

2nd year was 22 wins followed by 11 more 22+ wins in a row with 9 MAC Championship games. 

As Thad Matta stated to me why he would not recommend Groce, his long time asst:

  Dambrot’s conf record was over .700

Groce’ combined conf record in MAC & Big 10 combined is below .500.

Remember, Akron was only school that would offer him a job after his debacle at Illinois.

So don’t expect more than mediocrity.

 

I can stomach the Grocery criticism but you need to do some research into the roster Dambrot inherited versus the roster Groce inherited.  Entirely different situations.

[Blue & Gold]

Just to jog everyone's memories, some of the members of the Zips' team during Dambrot's 1st season as head coach were:

Romeo Travis

Dru Joyce

Jeremiah Wood

Darryl Peterson

Cedric Middleton

Some of the other contributors were:

Matt Futch

Rob Preston

Quade Milum

 

No, that Zips team wouldn't have hung with this year"s Buffalo team.  But let's not kid ourselves.  It was pretty stacked.

 

By contrast, Groce inherited:

Jimmond Ivey

Daniel Utomi

An iPhone 

 

With which to scramble to piece together a team - not just late in the recruiting cycle, but after the 2nd signing day!

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Blue & Gold

[Let'sGoZips94]

Not to mention Dambrot inherited a much weaker MAC, too. He came in post-Elite Eight KSUcks, and the MAC was in no-man's-land with no real standout, top teams. Groce came in and has had to face the best team the MAC has ever had (regular season wise) in Buffalo and a solid Toledo program, while the conference as a whole has posted its best conference rankings in a while. 

[clarkwgriswold]

1 hour ago, Blue & Gold said:

Just to jog everyone's memories, some of the members of the Zips' team during Dambrot's 1st season as head coach were:

Romeo Travis

Dru Joyce

Jeremiah Wood

Darryl Peterson

Cedric Middleton

Some of the other contributors were:

Matt Futch

Rob Preston

Quade Milum

 

No, that Zips team wouldn't have hung with this year"s Buffalo team.  But let's not kid ourselves.  It was pretty stacked.

 

By contrast, Groce inherited:

Jimmond Ivey

Daniel Utomi

An iPhone 

 

With which to scramble to piece together a team - not just late in the recruiting cycle, but after the 2nd signing day!

 

 

But...but...but...Dambrot's team's got better faster.  Ugh.

 

Thanks for posting this.  I'm too worn out from having to say the same things over and over...

[kreed5120]

It seems like many are trying to treat this as we fired Dambrot to hire Groce, which isn't the case. Dambrot left on his own free will abandoning a program he spend a decade plus building. Would have I preferred us keeping Dambrot? Sure, but that wasn't an option. At the time I felt Groce was the best option available. He inherited a team with significantly less talent than the one Dambrot inherited from Hipsher. I'm not sure how anyone else could argue otherwise while keeping a straight face. Groce looks to have finally stabilized the roster and the team should have the potential to contend for a MAC title next year. If we go 8-10 again, I'll be right there with everyone holding the pitch fork.