Assessing Coach Arth (and his staff)

[clarkwgriswold]

7 minutes ago, zipsoutsider said:

Lol....this guy gets paid enough for the whole village. It's on him.

 

OK genius...you be content to wait while the dumpster fire turns into a wildfire too big to extinguish.

 

Maybe this I intentional. Maybe William's was bought in to make it easier to convince the community at large that 1AA is a better fit. But why stop there. Go D3 so you can compete, locally, and get beat by Youngstown.

 

It doesn't take a freaking genius to realize that UA DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY 3 HEAD FOOTBALL COACHES.

Edited October 27, 2019 by clarkwgriswold

[72 Roo]

12 hours ago, Zip_ME87 said:

 

I hear you @72Roo  However, Arth like RI1.0 may not be capable. As soon as contracts expire, those who squandered $650k+ to create this mess and who continue to make colossal hiring mistakes need to go. UA cannot afford to keep paying for these blunders. Students, who have no choice but to pay for this, and dedicated Akron Football alumni, fans, supporters do not deserve this nor does the university or community as a whole. This failure is a drag on the university and all of its great programs, academic and athletic.

 

Can't make an argument against what you say ME87. We can't eat contracts but we do not want to keep repeating past mistakes and extend to coaches and AD's who do not show results. When the contract is up let them go. This is a results driven business and they need to be held accountable. Personally I hope coach Arth can find a way to win a championship in future years despite the mess that is this year, but I now have my doubts. Mostly based on how well the team performs, how well they are prepared and how the coaching staff improves them as the season goes on. What I see is a team getting worse. And worse against bad teams. It hurts to be a Zip football fan. 

[zipsoutsider]

35 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

It doesn't take a freaking genius to realize that UA DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY 3 HEAD FOOTBALL COACHES.

Hey, shouldn't be a problem, or Larry Williams was blowing smoke put of his butt.

 

At any rate, start by firing Williams. His contract must be close to being up. I could find anything on the web that have the details. If there is no contract and we can fire him at any time, what are we waiting for?

[dre22era]

FYI Tom Arth will earn $500k before bonuses this year.

[DannyHoke]

For those operating under the theory that Arth & staff can flip the Akron program, their history does not point to this destination.

 

In the FOUR YEARS before Arth took over in Chattanooga, the Mocs had these records;

 

HEAD COACH: Russ Huesman

2013 ........ 8-4

2014 ........ 10-4   Quarterfinals — Division I FCS Playoffs

2015 ........ 9-4     Second Round — Division I FCS Playoffs

2016 ........ 9-4     Second Round — Division I FCS Playoffs

 

Huesman leaves for the Richmond job, Enter Tom Arth

 

HEAD COACH: Tom Arth

2017 ........ 3-8 (-6)

2018 ........ 6-5 (+3), and lost last three games, 5 of their last 7

 

To break this down for you, Arth took over a program that had made the postseason for 3 straight years and averaged 9 wins a season for the four years prior to his arrival and impacted the program to where they averaged 4.5 wins a season for his two years, exactly reducing the win total by 50%.

 

At Akron, Arth took over for Terry Bowden, who averaged 6 wins a season over the last 4 years, but lost lost 5 straight games to end the season and effectively had lost the lockerroom and the kids basically quit on him.

 

HEAD COACH: Terry Bowden

2015 ........ 8-5 .... Famous Idaho Potato Bowl

2016 ........ 5-7 (-3)   

2017 ........ 7-7 (+2).... Boca Raton    

2018 ........ 4-8 (-3)... was fired on December 2

 

Akron hired Tom Arth 12 days later on December 14.  Jim McElwain was hired at CMU on December 2. Scot Loeffler was hired at BG on November 28. 

 

You have to ask, at what point did Larry Williams decide he was going to fire Bowden?  Did he really wait and make the decision after the South Carolina game on December 2, which was pretty much a guaranteed loss, or did that decision come following the BG or Ohio games?  Why did he wait until after the season?  The argument made by some here is that the timing of the hire was such that it put Arth & staff in a bad place recruiting. Would a week, or two, have really made a difference with a staff that had never recruited, or evaluated players at the FBS level?

 

 

 

 

[94zipgrad]

Everyone here knows your opinion & even if we don’t agree, you have made your point & we can understand your view but I believe I speak for most, we are tired of hearing your opinion 

[UAZipster0305]

16 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

It doesn't take a freaking genius to realize that UA DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY 3 HEAD FOOTBALL COACHES.

UA doesn't and didn't have the money to buy out one coach, and hire another while buying him out of his previous job either. I'm not at all his supporter, but Arth stays.

[UAZipster0305]

13 hours ago, dre22era said:

FYI Tom Arth will earn $500k before bonuses this year.

In other words, Arth will earn $500k unless there is a bonus associated with academic performance.

[clarkwgriswold]

16 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

Can't make an argument against what you say ME87. We can't eat contracts but we do not want to keep repeating past mistakes and extend to coaches and AD's who do not show results. When the contract is up let them go. This is a results driven business and they need to be held accountable. Personally I hope coach Arth can find a way to win a championship in future years despite the mess that is this year, but I now have my doubts. Mostly based on how well the team performs, how well they are prepared and how the coaching staff improves them as the season goes on. What I see is a team getting worse. And worse against bad teams. It hurts to be a Zip football fan. 

 

I think this sums up where most of us are.  As Zips fans, we can't help but be concerned with the product we are seeing on the field, but we know there's no short term solution and recognize that the budget and realities of the situation require us to exercise some patience.  Unfortunately, this is short sightedly interpreted by some as accepting the abomination we are seeing on the field.  Recognizing the problem yet not being advocates of the "nuclear option" do not make us lesser Zips fans nor are we so deaf to the problems that we need it constantly spelled out for us.

[Zippyroo]

On 10/27/2019 at 6:09 AM, Dr Z said:

The offensive line is detrimental to the play of anyone lining up at quarterback. The right side needs help. If there is not a capable player to consistently perform, I think we need to lineup a tight end next to right tackle on every snap. A consistent snap to quarterback’s chest would be beneficial to the outcome of each play as well. It’s hard to evaluate others until this unit starts to perform at an average level. 

 

Agree with what you are saying.   In fact, I said it about 6 weeks ago.....still stand by what I said then.

 

On 9/14/2019 at 9:32 PM, Zippyroo said:

Wow.  What can I say.  I am a new member to this forum but have been a visitor from afar for some time now.  I think everything starts with the O-Line.  I do not want to talk down about any of our current players since I am sure they are doing their best but some changes need to be made or we will not win a game this season.  The left side of our line is solid with Council and Brown.  I think our center, Peterson, is decent and will get better as the year progresses but the the right side of our line is having some trouble.  Corne at right guard is struggling and Forman is undersized at right tackle.  I know its still early but here is what I would do.  I would move Council from left guard over to right tackle and find two new guards.  That way at least we can hopefully protect Kato better.  At guard, you need some beef that can move people but still be nimble enough to pull and get to second level blocking.  Looking at our current roster I think you have 4 guys that may fit the job.  I would give Sample, Kallay, Fonte, and Robarge a go at it and see who emerges.  Muldowney, Forman, and the other true Freshman, do not have the physical attributes to make it happen.  If we could find a couple of road grader guards this may also lead to a running game improvement as well.  In addition, a blocking tight end would further help protect Kato and help the running game.  I just do not know if we have a guy on the roster that fits the job.  We need a 6'5"ish, 275 lb guy that could occasionally catch a ball.  Maybe look to some of our other OL players and convert one or two to TE.  Just my thoughts....

 

[Zip-Grad '13]

What are some viable changes that we could realistically see take place between this low-point this year and the beginning of next season?  We have 4-more games...what is something that we can watch/look for?

[Zip_ME87]

1 hour ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

I think this sums up where most of us are.  As Zips fans, we can't help but be concerned with the product we are seeing on the field, but we know there's no short term solution and recognize that the budget and realities of the situation require us to exercise some patience.  Unfortunately, this is short sightedly interpreted by some as accepting the abomination we are seeing on the field.  Recognizing the problem yet not being advocates of the "nuclear option" do not make us lesser Zips fans nor are we so deaf to the problems that we need it constantly spelled out for us.

 

1 hour ago, 94zipgrad said:

Everyone here knows your opinion & even if we don’t agree, you have made your point & we can understand your view but I believe I speak for most, we are tired of hearing your opinion 

 

I understand what you're saying, and I don't think these were aimed at me, but this is a discussion forum, and I personally like the discussion and reading others' opinions whether or not I agree with them. No one is forced to read anyone else's posts. We all do so by choice. I haven't used it, but I believe members can use an option on this board to mute those whose posts they no longer wish to read. Of course, you can just not read them, too.

 

[blueandgold]

1 hour ago, UAZipster0305 said:

In other words, Arth will earn $500k unless there is a bonus associated with academic performance.

Exactly!

[ZippyRulz]

1 hour ago, Zip-Grad '13 said:

What are some viable changes that we could realistically see take place between this low-point this year and the beginning of next season?  We have 4-more games...what is something that we can watch/look for?

 

I think first and foremost we have to look to the new recruits and transfers to see who can contribute immediately next season. We know what we have (don't have) this season, I doubt if the last 4 games are going to show us much we don't already know.

 

 

[Zippyroo]

59 minutes ago, Zip-Grad '13 said:

What are some viable changes that we could realistically see take place between this low-point this year and the beginning of next season?  We have 4-more games...what is something that we can watch/look for?

I do not think there is a magic bullet.  Its gonna take a few years to become respectable again. However,  there are some things that can be addressed going into next year.  Namely, the oline has to change. Our coaches have been reluctant to make significant changes this year.  There are probably some reasons for that though. True freshmen on the oline rarely make an impact and often do even play since it almost always takes at least one or more years to get them ready for the physical nature of that position. With that said, I believe we have some true freshman and red shirt freshmen that will compete for starting positions next season.  Same goes for dline.  I would not be surprised if only Council returns to starting lineup on oline next season. As for all other positions other than LB's, freshmen are already contributing and I expect that trend to continue with Arth's 2020 recruiting class.

 

As for the remaining games this season, I do not think much will change.  We may see some true freshmen that have not played yet get in the games for a few series but do not expect any wholesale changes.

[Captain Kangaroo]

1 hour ago, Zip_ME87 said:

I understand what you're saying, and I don't think these were aimed at me, but this is a discussion forum, and I personally like the discussion and reading others' opinions whether or not I agree with them. No one is forced to read anyone else's posts. We all do so by choice. I haven't used it, but I believe members can use an option on this board to mute those whose posts they no longer wish to read. Of course, you can just not read them, too.

I will disagree with you on this point. There are some people who abuse their privilege of posting on ZipsNation.

 

Just because someone has the ability to repeatedly type the same diatribe doesn't mean it's ok. It's disrespectful to the other members, and it makes for a lousy discussion forum. It also drives the interesting/thoughtful people away, because they don't feel like being cyber-hassled by someone with nothing to say and all day to type it.

 

If you ever begin a post - "I've said this many times before, but I'm going to say it again..."... you shouldn't post it. I promise everyone read it the first 35 times.

[Zip-Grad '13]

42 minutes ago, ZippyRulz said:

 

I think first and foremost we have to look to the new recruits and transfers to see who can contribute immediately next season. We know what we have (don't have) this season, I doubt if the last 4 games are going to show us much we don't already know.

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Zippyroo said:

I do not think there is a magic bullet.  Its gonna take a few years to become respectable again. However,  there are some things that can be addressed going into next year.  Namely, the oline has to change. Our coaches have been reluctant to make significant changes this year.  There are probably some reasons for that though. True freshmen on the oline rarely make an impact and often do even play since it almost always takes at least one or more years to get them ready for the physical nature of that position. With that said, I believe we have some true freshman and red shirt freshmen that will compete for starting positions next season.  Same goes for dline.  I would not be surprised if only Council returns to starting lineup on oline next season. As for all other positions other than LB's, freshmen are already contributing and I expect that trend to continue with Arth's 2020 recruiting class.

 

As for the remaining games this season, I do not think much will change.  We may see some true freshmen that have not played yet get in the games for a few series but do not expect any wholesale changes.

 

That makes sense...thanks guys!  Sorry I quoted both of you...I'm still trying to figure out how this forum's mechanics work.

[zippy5]

Thank you cap'n. This site has been miserable lately and it's none of your or Dr. Z's fault. I feel like I read the same posts over and over in every thread

[94zipgrad]

1 hour ago, Zip_ME87 said:

 

 

I understand what you're saying, and I don't think these were aimed at me, but this is a discussion forum, and I personally like the discussion and reading others' opinions whether or not I agree with them. No one is forced to read anyone else's posts. We all do so by choice. I haven't used it, but I believe members can use an option on this board to mute those whose posts they no longer wish to read. Of course, you can just not read them, too.

 

I ?% agree, you would have to see his post in totality,  I believe the moderators have moved & created a nicer thread.  He came in trying to start problems.  I’m all for talking & hearing opinions but every week he starts it all over again, trust me, I feel the pain just as everyone does.  Rather you agree with firing & hiring there isn’t anything we can do.  You never see a firing within the first year of a coach that is coming into a mess, we were on a downward trend with nothing in the cupboards.  Finding a coach isn’t easy & once you make the decision you gotta give him a chance.  I was for keeping Bowden & getting a new OC & maybe even getting some younger coaches so we could do a better job on the recruiting trail.  Ultimately that is where it all starts.  But once they made the decision I wanted Getsy because he was a QB here,  was on Green Bay staff & is a current SEC OC & makes $600,000 as an OC & we would of had to pay more than what I think the University was willing to pay but it maybe would have been worth it as doing this bad is costing more than the $500k we are paying Arth.  Lastly Getsy has D1 playing & coaching experience.  Arth had neither & his learning curve is bigger & I think we see that now.

 

I am open to the posters opinions & thoughts, some posters are not honestly here to share thoughts & opinions but to stir the pot

[Zip_ME87]

I get it. Thanks all. 

[zipsoutsider]

What is interesting is that people complain about the discussion about the poor coaching performance, yet they are the only threads people really commenting on. The on-field play is so bad, it is difficult to even discuss. 

 

I will never agree to some ridiculous notion that Arth can make us respectable, let alone in 2 years. There is simply nothing that should lead us to believe that. Our play has not shown any signs of an improving team. We have a couple of players here and there seemingly playing a little better but it is tough to judge whether there is true improvement or just the opponent taking their foot off of the gas. 

 

I spoke to a former player and his concern was the lack of urgency and will to win. I think that is obvious.

[akronzips71]

It is not stirring the pot to be upset about being the worst team in all of D1.

AGAIN

[Captain Kangaroo]

46 minutes ago, akronzips71 said:

It is not stirring the pot to be upset about being the worst team in all of D1.

AGAIN

How do you feel about dropping to 1-AA?

[akronzips71]

16 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

How do you feel about dropping to 1-AA?

It is a fair question and something that has been bandied about here.

The Football and Basketball teams are a very large part of the branding of a University.

When I attended Akron we were Dll

I can recall, as a lad, being impressed with schools like Clemson, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, and of course there was Darryl Royal. This is what I saw on Saturday afternoons when I turned on the TV (to say nothing of Bill Bradley playing Hoops at Princeton - he was such a HUGE star in the NYC area that every game was televised)!

Before the Internet, I could never even get an Akron score. Totally ignored in all other markets. I think we made The Dance in 1986 or so, I saw an article in the NYT. That was as close as I could come to information about the Zips. Once in a while I would stop at a large newsstand and pick up a Beacon Journal or a Plain Dealer and get a box score.

Many people here have framed this in terms of money. While they have a point, the two major sports are more important than that.

Being a home to "big time" championship teams attracts students. It keeps the alumni happy. They make contributions. It brings ad revenue. It is a self fulfilling prophesy when it comes to recruiting.

 

Recruiting to Akron has big challenges. It is an urban campus. It is not a glamorous place to live (remember, we are seeking athletes from all over, so they mostly live on campus in "sports" housing and have no ties to the community. Being a townie school, there is a lot of apathy as to sports. Commuter students go to class and go home.

 

The stadium is a huge upgrade. I was only in the JAR one time on a brief visit years ago, and it was not a game day, so I never comment on how good or bad it is. Probably better than Memorial Hall, we REALLY rocked that place in the days of Len Paul and Turner and Williams.

 

All that being said, there are a finite number of schools that offer D1 Football scholarships. A skilled coach ought to be able to get some good players.

 

No, I do not support dropping down. The big picture is that lowers the brand and perception of the school. Football and Hoops have EVERYTHING to do with the reputation and brand. Is there anything "special" about Notre Dame or Michigan or Louisville or Indiana?
NO

Their biggest claim to fame is sports. When I was in grade school we learned the Notre Dame fight song! I still know the words. WHY? Because FOOTBALL.

 

Back to reality. I know a lot of folks did not like Bowden. The reality check is that he won games, took us to two bowls, and a MAC championship game. This is after iCoach made us the worst team in D1.

So you want to replace him? Fine. FIND SOMEONE BETTER.

 

I never played or coached football at any level. But throw a deep pass on 3rd and 1 in a game you are still in? Illegal formation on a punt? This tells me this coach is not in control of the team. No offense, no defense. No OL. No special teams. This is not a team, it is a rabble.

 

Face it, we have been blown out in EVERY game, There is no excuse for this. We offer Division One NCAA scholarships. A few of our guys get into the NFL. We may not have great players, but in my opinion we have a horrible coaching staff.

 

Sorry for the diatribe, but this is just so frustrating. We fired a coach who brought us back from oblivion, and replaced him with a coach who is no more successful than you or I could be. AND we are paying both of them.

 

 

[zipsoutsider]

My prediction is that we would continue losing if we dropped. Dropping is not a solution. It's a cop out