Reslife4Life Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 Tonight Sam Houston State beat FIU to get to 6-2 on the season. This is just their second year in FBS and are already going to a bowl game. Last year they went 3-9. I know it is tough for Akron to build up a program, but I mean look at a team like SHSU. Even in todays state of college football it is possible to improve greatly over a short time, why not us? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted October 23 Author Report Share Posted October 23 6 hours ago, Reslife4Life said: Tonight Sam Houston State beat FIU to get to 6-2 on the season. This is just their second year in FBS and are already going to a bowl game. Last year they went 3-9. I know it is tough for Akron to build up a program, but I mean look at a team like SHSU. Even in todays state of college football it is possible to improve greatly over a short time, why not us? SHS was very high level FCS. There isn't a great deal of difference between that and mid to low level G5. Heck, there isn't much difference between high level G5 and P4 but there is a slight difference. All it takes is a couple better players in key positions and you can make that jump to a bowl game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 6 hours ago, Reslife4Life said: Tonight Sam Houston State beat FIU to get to 6-2 on the season. This is just their second year in FBS and are already going to a bowl game. Last year they went 3-9. I know it is tough for Akron to build up a program, but I mean look at a team like SHSU. Even in todays state of college football it is possible to improve greatly over a short time, why not us? If they played South Carolina, Ohio State and Rutgers to begin the season, and dealt with all the budget cut related issues we have I doubt they would have 6…5…or 4 wins. They are maybe 1/10 of a notch better than Akron, but with a table much better set for success. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Gold Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 1 hour ago, Captain Kangaroo said: If they played South Carolina, Ohio State and Rutgers to begin the season, and dealt with all the budget cut related issues we have I doubt they would have 6…5…or 4 wins. They are maybe 1/10 of a notch better than Akron, but with a table much better set for success. When Guthrie scheduled Ohio State ensuring that we'd start the season at best 1-3 I had zero excitement about this year's football season, an emotional void regarding Zips football I hadn't experienced since before Lee Owens was hired as coach. Not good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1996MAENG Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 1 hour ago, Captain Kangaroo said: If they played South Carolina, Ohio State and Rutgers to begin the season, and dealt with all the budget cut related issues we have I doubt they would have 6…5…or 4 wins. They are maybe 1/10 of a notch better than Akron, but with a table much better set for success. Ultimatley, much of this is about demographics. UA and the rest of the MAC depend on the near region (surrounding 3-4 states) for the majority of its students and its recruited athletes. Ohio (and the rust belt in general) has a stagnant population and a large number of universities. The state is recruited almost to exhaustion by the ACC, Big10, etc. Texas has a large and growing population plus a ton of football talent, enough to supply its own Power4 universites, G5 universities, a large number of programs outside of Texas, and there's still enough left over for the Texas-based FCS and programs transitioning from FCS to FBS, like SHSU. Akron has none of those "territorial" advantages. To succeed at Akron (or Kent and for 20+ years Ohio, which struggled mightily before Grobe and Solich) the program would need a dynamic coach able to recruit, develop, work the portal, and coach his ass off on game day. I don't think UA has that at the moment in Moorehead. He can't overcome the particular challenges that UA faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egregiousbob Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 Bring back Gerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted October 23 Author Report Share Posted October 23 4 hours ago, Blue & Gold said: When Guthrie scheduled Ohio State ensuring that we'd start the season at best 1-3 I had zero excitement about this year's football season, an emotional void regarding Zips football I hadn't experienced since before Lee Owens was hired as coach. Not good. You make a really good point. You sound indifferent. I'm indifferent at this point. I don't blame you if you are. Like the WWE or not, Vince McMahon is a brilliant entertainer and promoter. I highly encourage everyone to watch the Netflix documentary on him. He talks a lot about "heat". When someone boos or cheers, that means the superstar is generating heat. The greater the heat, the more important to the WWE the character is. No heat? Better find a way to generate some or look for another career. The Zips football program hasn't generated heat for a while now. It does little to nothing to support the at athletes students alumni fans and general community around Akron. Why would anyone care? We are looking at something worse than a disgusted fan base. We are looking at an indifferent fan base. It's the worst place for the program to be. Crushing a season before it starts is not a good way to generate heat. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted October 23 Author Report Share Posted October 23 4 hours ago, UA1996MAENG said: Ultimatley, much of this is about demographics. UA and the rest of the MAC depend on the near region (surrounding 3-4 states) for the majority of its students and its recruited athletes. Ohio (and the rust belt in general) has a stagnant population and a large number of universities. The state is recruited almost to exhaustion by the ACC, Big10, etc. Texas has a large and growing population plus a ton of football talent, enough to supply its own Power4 universites, G5 universities, a large number of programs outside of Texas, and there's still enough left over for the Texas-based FCS and programs transitioning from FCS to FBS, like SHSU. Akron has none of those "territorial" advantages. To succeed at Akron (or Kent and for 20+ years Ohio, which struggled mightily before Grobe and Solich) the program would need a dynamic coach able to recruit, develop, work the portal, and coach his ass off on game day. I don't think UA has that at the moment in Moorehead. He can't overcome the particular challenges that UA faces. Explain Toledo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 10 minutes ago, GP1 said: Explain Toledo. And NIU, OU, Marshall, Western Kentucky, etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1996MAENG Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 18 minutes ago, GP1 said: Explain Toledo. UT has consistenly made better coaching hires, the type of guy who could compensate for all the disadvantages that the MAC has. The UT AD over the years simply made good to great decisons over and over and got coaches who were "special": Pinkel, Saban, Campbell, Candle. UT hired really good coaches while Akron and Kent and EMU, etc. mostly missed the mark and often worse than that - terrible coaches: Ionello, Arth, Paul Haynes, Kenni Burns, and so on. A great hire means success. Bad hire means being hopeless for the whole 5-year contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1996MAENG Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 18 minutes ago, zippy5 said: And NIU, OU, Marshall, Western Kentucky, etc etc Coaches mean everything for these types of programs (non-blue chip, non-power 5, often isolated locations, no money...). I know it's anathema to mention Kent State on this site, but Darrell Hazell took Doug Martin's players and won 11 games in his second (and last year) ant KSU; Martin was never going to do this. I'm not going to bash Moorehead, but I think he's missing something even if he's put together a better roster than Arth. Here we are in year three and headed again toward 2-10 or maybe 1-11. He does not have the special touch that coaches at Toledo, for example, have had for going on 30 years. OU was a total mess (like as bad as UA is now) for a long time until they found some limited suceess with a legitimate coach (Grobe) and then won consistently with Solich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 I thought it was all demographics? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1996MAENG Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 19 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said: I thought it was all demographics? I guess this is directed at me. I stated as well that a special coach can compensate for the disadvantages. If Ohio still had a ton of talent not already grabbed up by the big conferences, you might not need a "miracle worker" as a head coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catdaddyp Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 5 hours ago, UA1996MAENG said: Ultimatley, much of this is about demographics. UA and the rest of the MAC depend on the near region (surrounding 3-4 states) for the majority of its students and its recruited athletes. Ohio (and the rust belt in general) has a stagnant population and a large number of universities. The state is recruited almost to exhaustion by the ACC, Big10, etc. Texas has a large and growing population plus a ton of football talent, enough to supply its own Power4 universites, G5 universities, a large number of programs outside of Texas, and there's still enough left over for the Texas-based FCS and programs transitioning from FCS to FBS, like SHSU. Akron has none of those "territorial" advantages. To succeed at Akron (or Kent and for 20+ years Ohio, which struggled mightily before Grobe and Solich) the program would need a dynamic coach able to recruit, develop, work the portal, and coach his ass off on game day. I don't think UA has that at the moment in Moorehead. He can't overcome the particular challenges that UA faces. I agree Texas has a territorial advantage. As do the states of Georgia and Florida. However, there is enough talent to recruit in Ohio and the surrounding states of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Indiana, and Kentucky. I know the staff mostly sticks to a 4 hour radius, but certain coaches on staff - like our OL coach - have personal connections to other states like Florida. Talent should never be the issue. It was under the previous staff, but now there is enough talent on this roster to win some games. Hopefully, that starts on Saturday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 If you want to think logically, if you're a kid from Westerville (who has no prior connection to either school), where are you more likely to go assuming you received offers from both 1) the perennial conference championship contender who attracts 10k+ fans each game or 2) the perennial cellar dweller who draws 5k fans? The reality is the Toledo job is easier as the program is built on a solid foundation. At Akron, the coach has to work much harder to overcome the stigma and challenges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted October 23 Author Report Share Posted October 23 4 hours ago, UA1996MAENG said: UT has consistenly made better coaching hires, the type of guy who could compensate for all the disadvantages that the MAC has. The UT AD over the years simply made good to great decisons over and over and got coaches who were "special": Pinkel, Saban, Campbell, Candle. UT hired really good coaches while Akron and Kent and EMU, etc. mostly missed the mark and often worse than that - terrible coaches: Ionello, Arth, Paul Haynes, Kenni Burns, and so on. A great hire means success. Bad hire means being hopeless for the whole 5-year contract. Soooo, it isn't an demographics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted October 23 Author Report Share Posted October 23 Let me explain the simple difference between Toledo and Akron. Toledo: Coaches, presidents and athletic directors come and go. The cultural expectation from the BoT, athletes students alumni fans and general community around Toledo remain the same. They want and expect the University to produce a competitive program so the University puts their best foot forward in hiring coaches and ADs. Akron: Coaches, presidents and ADs come and go. The culture is such that the BoT does not prioritize the football program like Toledo does so they hire one mope AD and President after another who really doesn't care about not just the football program, but the entire University. Athletes students alumni fans and general community around Akron suffer because of it to the point and ocean of indifference is created. They expect the team to lose. The football program at Akron fails because it is set up to fail at an institutional level. The results are as plain as day on Saturdays....or Tuesdays.....or Wednesdays..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 0-6 Kennesaw State beats 5-0 Liberty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1996MAENG Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 15 hours ago, GP1 said: Soooo, it isn't an demographics. It is certainly a part of it. Yes, find a special coach and things could get better, but there are basic population dynamics that affect college athletics in states and regions that are oversaturated with universities and colleges as Ohio and other nearby states certainly are. College enrollment in Ohio is stagnant except for Ohio State and Cincinnati. I know, OU and BG had larger freshman classes this fall. Sustainable? We'll see. Working in secondary education, I see that the yearly cohort of college-viable high school graduates is shrinking as well, especially among males. The decline in participation in high school football is also playing a role in this problem. Up a bit in the last two years, participation in high school football is down nationwide by about 13-15% since 2006. That's not insignificant; the pool of candidates is shrinking and this affects not Ohio State but the mere mortals of CFB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Roo Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 11 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said: 0-6 Kennesaw State beats 5-0 Liberty. Thus proving the saying that even a broken clock is correct 2x per day. But Akron Football is never correct.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egregiousbob Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 (edited) OU and BG classes weren't one-time things. Four straight strong classes in Athens (I believe 2023 was largest ever) and three straight for BG. Definite trend. Kent has done pretty well overall throughout this period. There's got to be a reason why Akron, in comparison, has shrunk (undergrad enrollment) for 11 consecutive years. Prospective students and their parents are not seeing the value. Many were scared off by the Scarborough debacle and have not come back, but the seeds of the problem go back further. Retention continues to be a serious concern. Edited October 24 by egregiousbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted October 24 Author Report Share Posted October 24 (edited) 5 hours ago, UA1996MAENG said: It is certainly a part of it. Yes, find a special coach and things could get better, but there are basic population dynamics that affect college athletics in states and regions that are oversaturated with universities and colleges as Ohio and other nearby states certainly are. College enrollment in Ohio is stagnant except for Ohio State and Cincinnati. I know, OU and BG had larger freshman classes this fall. Sustainable? We'll see. Working in secondary education, I see that the yearly cohort of college-viable high school graduates is shrinking as well, especially among males. The decline in participation in high school football is also playing a role in this problem. Up a bit in the last two years, participation in high school football is down nationwide by about 13-15% since 2006. That's not insignificant; the pool of candidates is shrinking and this affects not Ohio State but the mere mortals of CFB. Akron's problems have nothing to do with demographics. It only takes 40 decent players to field a good team. 40.is a miniscule number in relation to the demographics of Ohio and surrounding states. Akron's problem is everything isn't equal because Akron does everything it can to stay at the back of the pack. This makes it hard to get 40 really good players. Akron has institutionalized losing. One could say we have nearly perfected it as we approach another program decades ahead of us in institutionalizing failure in a football program, Kent State. I hate to say it, but we are closer to Kent than (pick 5 MAC teams). If you guys want to fire Joe, go ahead if that is your solution. It will be an act of mercy for him. The problem is, firing him won't solve the real problem. The enemy is within. Edited October 24 by GP1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1996MAENG Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 5 hours ago, egregiousbob said: OU and BG classes weren't one-time things. Four straight strong classes in Athens (I believe 2023 was largest ever) and three straight for BG. Definite trend. Kent has done pretty well overall throughout this period. There's got to be a reason why Akron, in comparison, has shrunk (undergrad enrollment) for 11 consecutive years. Prospective students and their parents are not seeing the value. Many were scared off by the Scarborough debacle and have not come back, but the seeds of the problem go back further. Retention continues to be a serious concern. UA certianly was hurt by instability in its leadership; the university got a lot of bad press (Olive Jar!). The Ohio public universities that are doing best in difficult times are in small towns I guess (Kent, OU, BGSU). Ohio State is simply Ohio State; enrollment there is not going to decline. Having grown up in Cincinnati, UC's growth has surprised me most of allo (another urban location). Crime is high and some of the areas bordering campus are among the most dangerous in the city. It's not a "comfortable campus" and I would not imagine that it would appeal to "mom and dad" in my previous scenario, yet it does somehow. Did joining the Big 12 have some influence on this? Maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandZip Posted November 1 Report Share Posted November 1 On 10/2/2024 at 1:24 PM, ClevelandZip said: Evidently Texas State has declined to join the Mountain West, so the MW is bringing up Montana, Montana State, Idaho, and North Dakota State from FCS. So, I guess C-USA is probably safe from getting picked apart for now and I would assume this means Toledo and NIU turned the MW down for that weird football-only proposal. This information turned out to be junk, so I apologize for jumping the gun. Grand Canyon University, a for-profit scam college, officially joined the Mountain West today as a non-football member. Despite being a scam college, they have a great basketball team. The word is that the Mountain West is still pursuing NIU and Toledo as football-only members. That would be a disaster for the MAC. Our media deal where we have to play at the worst times and get the smallest payouts continues to be detrimental. Not sure how the commissioner still has a job after letting ESPN abuse the conference like this. Need someone who can actually negotiate. Atlantic 10 schools get a higher payout than MAC schools, and they don’t even have football, which is supposedly the money-making sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted November 1 Author Report Share Posted November 1 5 minutes ago, ClevelandZip said: This information turned out to be junk, so I apologize for jumping the gun. Grand Canyon University, a for-profit scam college, officially joined the Mountain West today as a non-football member. Despite being a scam college, they have a great basketball team. The word is that the Mountain West is still pursuing NIU and Toledo as football-only members. That would be a disaster for the MAC. Our media deal where we have to play at the worst times and get the smallest payouts continues to be detrimental. Not sure how the commissioner still has a job after letting ESPN abuse the conference like this. Need someone who can actually negotiate. Atlantic 10 schools get a higher payout than MAC schools, and they don’t even have football, which is supposedly the money-making sport. Grand Canyon? Conference realignment has hit rock bottom. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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