Game 6 - NIU

[Zip JD]

20 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

Not one bit.  He just lost 55-7 at home to 2-3 USA.

[GP1]

5 hours ago, Lee Adams said:

I still go back to the Dennison situation. Faust was a publicity stunt.  

If it was a publicity stunt, it worked short term. The university got a lot of publicity. The Acme-Zip game in 1987 against Kent was the third largest crowd to ever see a football game at the Rubber Bowl. Publicity stunts can work if there is a longer term plan around it and there is where it all fall apart. 

 

The problem was there were a few issues working against Akron. First, there were no adults asking questions about the future of the program. By adults, I mean the board of trustees. Questions would be: What makes a successful D1 program and do we have any of that? Can our personnel in the athletic department get this done? If we want a D1 program, are either Faust or Dennison the right person for the job? If we waited 4-5 years and built a foundation, could we pull this off? Why is the NCAA basically begging us not to jump to D1? Almost any questions leads to a "no".  Looking back it was so obvious. 

 

I feel free to say this as a Catholic, but not a person who grew up in NE Ohio. Around Akron, there was and probably still is an overblown opinion of people who went/go to the local Catholic schools. Where I grew up, the religious private schools were neither as good at sports or educating kids as well as my public school. I know they are better than APS, but are Hoban, St. V and Walsh, but are they really any better at educating kids than Copley, Hudson, Medina or Stow? Add all of that to ND being a much more important part of college football than it is today, it makes influential people already predisposed to a certain belief that Faust's connection to Moeller and Notre Dame would be enough for success. To me, this is an under explored part of the beginning of the ongoing disaster that is the football program. 

 

I'd love to know who was on the BofT at the time and what their personal backgrounds were?  We're there influential people around the City/University that has this background and maybe created a predisposition leading to bad decisions?

 

There is a fantastic book to be written around the Akron football since 1986. 

[clarkwgriswold]

38 minutes ago, GP1 said:

There is a fantastic book to be written around the Akron football since 1986. 

 

Horror genre?

[clarkwgriswold]

Other than us having to watch bad football the other result of this ongoing losing is on the recruiting trail.  It has to be extra difficult to convince a kid to jump into a program that's won 6 games since 2019. 

[Blue & Gold]

36 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Other than us having to watch bad football the other result of this ongoing losing is on the recruiting trail.  It has to be extra difficult to convince a kid to jump into a program that's won 6 games since 2019. 

This is one reason I'm upset & worried about how this season is playing out. Last year it was easy for the new staff to place blame on the previous staff for the lack of success & tell the recruits "We're building something from scratch here. Come be a part of it."  This year it's more difficult to do that... maybe impossible with the TP (how many of Arth's recruits are even still on the team?).  JoeMo had better get this thing running smoothly next year or it might be too late.  

 

[1981 grad]

I had just commented in another thread how this year Akron football was at least watchable.  That ended on Saturday.  I could not make the game but watched it on TV till 5 minutes left in the first half when I could not watch it any longer.  Really reminded me of prior years where I defense could not stop anything.  I just wonder did we have a bad game or has the team quit and we will not see another watchable game.  For those that stayed till the bitter end, you are amazing.  I have seen so much bad Akron football I just had to turn it off.

[GP1]

47 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

JoeMo had better get this thing running smoothly next year or it might be too late.  

 

It has to work next year. By that I mean 6 wins. They aren't that far away. 

 

Miami wanted Martin fired after he started his first two seasons with 2 and 3 wins respectively. Everyone wanted him fired and players were revolting. Year 3 he won 6 and went to a bowl. 

 

Dave Clawson went 3-9 both of his first two years at Wake Forest. Everyone wanted him fired. I was worried about him but didn't want him fired yet. Year 3 he went 6-6. Wake Forest is more like Akron in that it's historically a bad D1 program. I've said it a lot on this board. There isn't a single thing Wake Forest does that Akron couldn't do. It was a black hole of football programs until Clawson. Think historically Rice and Kansas level bad. They have won the second most games in the ACC since 2018. Akron doesn't have to be this bad. 

 

I don't believe Akron is far away from where they could be as far as talent. The losing culture problem is a bigger problem. 

[Lee Adams]

20 hours ago, GP1 said:

If it was a publicity stunt, it worked short term. The university got a lot of publicity. The Acme-Zip game in 1987 against Kent was the third largest crowd to ever see a football game at the Rubber Bowl. Publicity stunts can work if there is a longer term plan around it and there is where it all fall apart. 

 

The problem was there were a few issues working against Akron. First, there were no adults asking questions about the future of the program. By adults, I mean the board of trustees. Questions would be: What makes a successful D1 program and do we have any of that? Can our personnel in the athletic department get this done? If we want a D1 program, are either Faust or Dennison the right person for the job? If we waited 4-5 years and built a foundation, could we pull this off? Why is the NCAA basically begging us not to jump to D1? Almost any questions leads to a "no".  Looking back it was so obvious. 

 

I feel free to say this as a Catholic, but not a person who grew up in NE Ohio. Around Akron, there was and probably still is an overblown opinion of people who went/go to the local Catholic schools. Where I grew up, the religious private schools were neither as good at sports or educating kids as well as my public school. I know they are better than APS, but are Hoban, St. V and Walsh, but are they really any better at educating kids than Copley, Hudson, Medina or Stow? Add all of that to ND being a much more important part of college football than it is today, it makes influential people already predisposed to a certain belief that Faust's connection to Moeller and Notre Dame would be enough for success. To me, this is an under explored part of the beginning of the ongoing disaster that is the football program. 

 

I'd love to know who was on the BofT at the time and what their personal backgrounds were?  We're there influential people around the City/University that has this background and maybe created a predisposition leading to bad decisions?

 

There is a fantastic book to be written around the Akron football since 1986. 

Way back, the University could have kept Dennison and justified it. Didn't thay make the I-AA playoffs one year when he was the coach? I'll go back and check. He also had the program winning consistently at the DII level. Two playoff wins in the 1976 season. Knute Rockne Bowl and all that. First overtime playoff game in the NCAA. Dennison was transitioning to recruiting DI level players as opposed to DII or I-AA. As we know all too well that takes some time. Faust is a real nice person. But, the University had to see he couldn't recruit at the college level even at Notre Dame. Otherwise he could have stayed at ND. And then you have to ask why he didn't get hired at another upper level DI program. 

As for the Acme-Zip game in 1987, they 'filled the Bowl' before Faust got there. The Faust name, not his record was why he got hired.

The football program has gained little consistent traction since it went DI. From firing Dennison to firing Lee Owens when they did and I'll even through JD in there. Too many AD's using Akron as a resume builder, hiring who they want and moving on.

Sad and frustrating.

[GP1]

1 hour ago, Lee Adams said:

Way back, the University could have kept Dennison and justified it. Didn't thay make the I-AA playoffs one year when he was the coach? I'll go back and check. He also had the program winning consistently at the DII level. Two playoff wins in the 1976 season. Knute Rockne Bowl and all that. First overtime playoff game in the NCAA. Dennison was transitioning to recruiting DI level players as opposed to DII or I-AA. As we know all too well that takes some time. Faust is a real nice person. But, the University had to see he couldn't recruit at the college level even at Notre Dame. Otherwise he could have stayed at ND. And then you have to ask why he didn't get hired at another upper level DI program. 

As for the Acme-Zip game in 1987, they 'filled the Bowl' before Faust got there. The Faust name, not his record was why he got hired.

The football program has gained little consistent traction since it went DI. From firing Dennison to firing Lee Owens when they did and I'll even through JD in there. Too many AD's using Akron as a resume builder, hiring who they want and moving on.

Sad and frustrating.

Dennison did make a playoff. He was a solid D2 and IAA coach, but not the guy to move it forward. He never won a conference title at Akron. There is this odd Dennison vs Faust debate in Akron. The real answer probably was, neither. The real answer to the key question was "no". The question was, "Is there anything about the Akron program that could make it a legitimate D1 program in the next 5-8 years." But, here we are and there's no going back. 

 

I missed the greatness of Owens. Never once did he put a complete team together. Never once did he win the division let alone the MAC. He bumbled around Ashland for a long time and never won his conference there either. The guy was just a nothing. 

 

I played at the beginning of the Faust years. Dennison didn't leave behind a stable of D1 players. There were a couple of good players, but not the 30-40 it takes to have a really good team. 

[MDZip]

23 minutes ago, GP1 said:

I missed the greatness of Owens. Never once did he put a complete team together. Never once did he win the division let alone the MAC. He bumbled around Ashland for a long time and never won his conference there either. The guy was just a nothing.

Don't want to let facts get in the way of your narrative, but Owens won four conference titles (and NCAA D-II playoff berths) at Ashland. 2012, 2015, 2017 and 2022. 

[GP1]

15 minutes ago, MDZip said:

Don't want to let facts get in the way of your narrative, but Owens won four conference titles (and NCAA D-II playoff berths) at Ashland. 2012, 2015, 2017 and 2022. 

Didn't he just win his division in 12, 15, and 17?  I'll give him 22. I'm still missing the greatness of the guy. Didn't see it at Akron and I'm bored and unimpressed with anything anyone does in D2 football. 

[clarkwgriswold]

With what we've seen since, Owens looks like freaking Knute Rockne.  It's so damn bad some people yearn for Bowden.

[GP1]

14 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

With what we've seen since, Owens looks like freaking Knute Rockne.  It's so damn bad some people yearn for Bowden.

I'd take a young version of Dave Clawson. He's a perfect fit for Wake. We need a perfect fit for Akron. I think we may have him, but next season will inform better. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Clawson

 

[clarkwgriswold]

1 hour ago, GP1 said:

I'd take a young version of Dave Clawson. He's a perfect fit for Wake. We need a perfect fit for Akron. I think we may have him, but next season will inform better. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Clawson

 

Only time will tell and at this point our only real option is to sit and wait. 

[Zip JD]

13 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

With what we've seen since, Owens looks like freaking Knute Rockne.  It's so damn bad some people yearn for Bowden.

That name is never to be mentioned again.  I would rather hear tales of Coleman Crawford than risk putting the Tater Tot back into the regular rotation on ZNO.   

[GoZips88]

Week 6 is behind us ... I stop by ZN to begin my prep for Game 7 - Central Directional Michigan ... and a thread has not been created yet. 'Apathy' just sucks.

Edited October 10, 2023 by GoZips88

[zippy-claws]

1 hour ago, GoZips88 said:

. 'Apathy' just sucks.

Ain't that the truth!

[Lee Adams]

On 10/9/2023 at 4:53 PM, GP1 said:

Dennison did make a playoff. He was a solid D2 and IAA coach, but not the guy to move it forward. He never won a conference title at Akron. There is this odd Dennison vs Faust debate in Akron. The real answer probably was, neither. The real answer to the key question was "no". The question was, "Is there anything about the Akron program that could make it a legitimate D1 program in the next 5-8 years." But, here we are and there's no going back. 

 

I missed the greatness of Owens. Never once did he put a complete team together. Never once did he win the division let alone the MAC. He bumbled around Ashland for a long time and never won his conference there either. The guy was just a nothing. 

 

I played at the beginning of the Faust years. Dennison didn't leave behind a stable of D1 players. There were a couple of good players, but not the 30-40 it takes to have a really good team. 

Its a shame we have to go back so far to find even some positives about Akron football. Just to be clear, I haven't seen anyone use the word 'great' in association with Owen's time at Akron. He didn't inherit much when he took over either. 

Owens coached more losing seasons(6) than winning seasons(3). During the 3 winning seasons the teams went 7-4, 6-5 and 7-5. After that 7-5(5-3 in the MAC) season he got fired?! Really? He had 3 seasons when his teams went 5-3 in the MAC. Right now would we accept that? 5-3 in conference, yes. Point? Just seems that the University was making questionabl decisions that inhibited the growth of the program. If Owens was a 'nothing' I am not sure what we have had since. Lets hope it all comes together next season.

[GP1]

8 hours ago, Lee Adams said:

Its a shame we have to go back so far to find even some positives about Akron football. Just to be clear, I haven't seen anyone use the word 'great' in association with Owen's time at Akron. He didn't inherit much when he took over either. 

Owens coached more losing seasons(6) than winning seasons(3). During the 3 winning seasons the teams went 7-4, 6-5 and 7-5. After that 7-5(5-3 in the MAC) season he got fired?! Really? He had 3 seasons when his teams went 5-3 in the MAC. Right now would we accept that? 5-3 in conference, yes. Point? Just seems that the University was making questionabl decisions that inhibited the growth of the program. If Owens was a 'nothing' I am not sure what we have had since. Lets hope it all comes together next season.

"Questionable decisions"?  I'd say disastrous decisions. 

 

If Akron won 7 games this year, it would be well exceeding expectations. That's the problem with Akron. The decision becomes between Faust and Owens, or Owens vs Brookhart. These are debates the idiots on ESPN have on TV between 8AM and, well..., the rest of the day. The failure of Akron has much less to do with coaches and more to do with University leadership up to the Board of Trustees.

 

If Clawson wasn't having the success he is having at Wake Forest, I'm sure there would be a lot of idiotic fans debating Grobe vs Clawson, even though Grobe has only 5 winning seasons in 12 years. That's the Faust vs Owens or whatever debate. It's just people trying to be right about something not worth being right about. Throw in the Dennison vs Faust debate. 

 

A contractor once told me, "Being right is the boobie prize". Whoever wins the Faust vs Owens debate will be right. Either way everything blows up in your face. 

[Blue & Gold]

On 10/9/2023 at 8:17 PM, GP1 said:

I'd take a young version of Dave Clawson. He's a perfect fit for Wake. We need a perfect fit for Akron. I think we may have him, but next season will inform better. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Clawson

 

 

On 10/9/2023 at 9:32 PM, clarkwgriswold said:

Only time will tell and at this point our only real option is to sit and wait. 

I'm upset that we're only at the season's midpoint and we're already crossing our fingers as we look forward to next year.  How on earth did JoeMo & Co. not know that we needed a serious upgrade at the game's most important position?

[clarkwgriswold]

1 hour ago, Blue & Gold said:

 

I'm upset that we're only at the season's midpoint and we're already crossing our fingers as we look forward to next year.  How on earth did JoeMo & Co. not know that we needed a serious upgrade at the game's most important position?

 

Agreed. though maybe they approached a number of potential promising recruits who looked up and thought "hmmm, 5 wins since 2019?, no thanks."

[Blue & Gold]

35 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

Agreed. though maybe they approached a number of potential promising recruits who looked up and thought "hmmm, 5 wins since 2019?, no thanks."

That's what I have to believe. We were probably rebuffed by most QB transfers we reached out to. Otherwise our QB situation is simply incomprehensible to me.

[LZIp]

We returned a all MAC 3rd team performer who got that in his first year in Joe's system. We brought in a young P5 transfer as well. Maybe the staff should have known more about how it would have affected DJ's play (if even possible) or hedged against DJI's injury (both last year and the potential of it this year), but aside from that I don't see what the issue was. A good, experienced QB wouldn't come here to sit on the bench in their limited time of remaining eligibility.  

[GP1]

5 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

 

I'm upset that we're only at the season's midpoint and we're already crossing our fingers as we look forward to next year.  How on earth did JoeMo & Co. not know that we needed a serious upgrade at the game's most important position?

Indeed. My worry is after two recruiting seasons he doesn't have his guy starting. 

 

Wolford wasn't very good his first two years at Wake, but come hell or high water he was Clawsons guy. We don't have time to develop a fresh starting next year because Joe is two years in. The program can't wait that long to get off its back for a variety of reasons. He has to get some experience out of the TP. 

[egregiousbob]

 

18 hours ago, GP1 said:

"Questionable decisions"?  I'd say disastrous decisions. 

 

If Akron won 7 games this year, it would be well exceeding expectations. That's the problem with Akron. The decision becomes between Faust and Owens, or Owens vs Brookhart. These are debates the idiots on ESPN have on TV between 8AM and, well..., the rest of the day. The failure of Akron has much less to do with coaches and more to do with University leadership up to the Board of Trustees.

 

If Clawson wasn't having the success he is having at Wake Forest, I'm sure there would be a lot of idiotic fans debating Grobe vs Clawson, even though Grobe has only 5 winning seasons in 12 years. That's the Faust vs Owens or whatever debate. It's just people trying to be right about something not worth being right about. Throw in the Dennison vs Faust debate. 

 

A contractor once told me, "Being right is the boobie prize". Whoever wins the Faust vs Owens debate will be right. Either way everything blows up in your face. 

 

I know you don't like Jim Grobe but he turned around a moribund Ohio program and had 11-, 9- and 8-win seasons at Wake. He had a lot of fire behind the scenes and held people accountable.  Not sure I am seeing the same in Joe M. at this point.