Staying Close to the Vest - Ex Coach Groce-related News and Views

[LZIp]

36 minutes ago, VAZip said:

I not sure anyone is attacking football but you have to look at the numbers and football is the lions share.  Looks like chart doesn’t include facilities cost to maintain the sport. Maybe no one cares about the other sports, but honestly, do you think anyone would care if UA didn’t have a football team.

 

From quick back of the napkin math based on google search results, the 6 home football games drew more total attendance than all of the home basketball games this past season , so I would think a lot of people would care.

Edited 8 hours ago by LZIp

[VAZip]

14 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

To be fair Infocision is a sunk cost. Eliminating the sport doesn't make the debt financing for it go away. It's not like we could sell it to a third party to eliminate the financial burden.

 

Edit: For me it's more the revenue share/NIL that has me discouraged about the football program. Forget competing against the P4. I'm not sure how we can compete financially against Miami (OH), Toledo, WMU, etc. They have a lot more money to throw at football compared to us.

And if you can’t compete and attract increased enrollment..what good is it? All these costs come back to the students attending the university and it’s out of control. At least one gubernatorial candidate has mentioned school consolidation to control cost….anybody ready for the Akron Kent Zips

[kreed5120]

7 minutes ago, VAZip said:

And if you can’t compete and attract increased enrollment..what good is it? All these costs come back to the students attending the university and it’s out of control. At least one gubernatorial candidate has mentioned school consolidation to control cost….anybody ready for the Akron Kent Zips

That's fine, I already previously stated I'm open to the idea. I would want a more informed opinion before feeling strongly one way or the other.

 

It's more that if you want to present the numbers you should only factor in the expenses that would be saved by eliminating the sport. If an expense would still remain then it wouldn't be a savings. You would also need to factor in revenue lost and the delta of additional travel costs of moving all our sports to another conference.

[UAZipster0305]

36 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

To be fair Infocision is a sunk cost. Eliminating the sport doesn't make the debt financing for it go away. It's not like we could sell it to a third party to eliminate the financial burden.

 

Edit: For me it's more the revenue share/NIL that has me discouraged about the football program. Forget competing against the P4. I'm not sure how we can compete financially against Miami (OH), Toledo, WMU, etc. They have a lot more money to throw at football compared to us.

And this is exactly the sunk cost fallacy. We've already invested so much, so let's continue risking and losing more in the future. Even with the stadium, continuation of the football program is difficult to justify right now, and as you said, competing even amongst our peers is looking increasingly bleak. It's time for administration to seriously consider making the very difficult decision, even if it compromises us staying in the MAC. Besides, I think if one MAC school abandons football, a handful of others could follow.

[Illini Zip]

2 hours ago, ZipsBBjunkie said:

Assume more quotes will be coming timed with the intro today. Nothing from Rique? 

John Fanta called Akron a monster. Did you hear that Zippy? You are to be feared.

[kreed5120]

7 minutes ago, UAZipster0305 said:

And this is exactly the sunk cost fallacy. We've already invested so much, so let's continue risking and losing more in the future. Even with the stadium, continuation of the football program is difficult to justify right now, and as you said, competing even amongst our peers is looking increasingly bleak. It's time for administration to seriously consider making the very difficult decision, even if it compromises us staying in the MAC. Besides, I think if one MAC school abandons football, a handful of others could follow.

It's not a sunk cost fallacy because I'm not saying we have to keep the sport because of the stadium. I'm pointing out eliminating the sport doesn't eliminate the annual expense for the stadium. 

 

All I'm asking for is an analysis that would detail the expenses saved from the elimination of the sport vs the revenue lost. That's called making an informed decision.

Edited 7 hours ago by kreed5120

[ZipsBBjunkie]

Feels like there is already a thread somewhere on viability of / state of football and the program where the football discussion could sit? 
 

In the meantime, looks like a beautiful arena there at CoC - did someone on this thread say they live there, have attended games there? What kind of student turnout do they get? 

[feetg10]

11 minutes ago, ZipsBBjunkie said:

Feels like there is already a thread somewhere on viability of / state of football and the program where the football discussion could sit? 
 

In the meantime, looks like a beautiful arena there at CoC - did someone on this thread say they live there, have attended games there? What kind of student turnout do they get? 

Not gonna lie, those pictures make me sick

[blueandgold]

Just now, feetg10 said:

Not gonna lie, those pictures make me sick

I was about to say the same thing!

[Zips1991]

2 minutes ago, feetg10 said:

Not gonna lie, those pictures make me sick

I feel the exact same way. They made me even more sick than I expected.

[NWAkron]

13 minutes ago, Zips1991 said:

I feel the exact same way. They made me even more sick than I expected.

Then don't look at them.  Be happy with what you have, which is a lot!

Edited 6 hours ago by NWAkron

[AkronAlumnus]

Just now, Zips1991 said:

I feel the exact same way. They made me even more sick than I expected.

I hear you—it’s frustrating to see, no doubt.  But at the end of the day, he’s just one guy making a bad career move.  That’s not worth us getting worked up over.  The program’s bigger than any one coach, and it’ll be fine.  I’m way more focused on the players we’ve got and what’s next for them than putting that kind of emotional weight on someone who chose to leave.

[Let'sGoZips94]

15 minutes ago, AkronAlumnus said:

 he’s just one guy making a bad career move.

 

Easy there. He gave us 9 great years and is leaving behind his right-hand man to man the ship at Akron. It's odd to see Groce at Charleston, but there shouldn't be any ill will. Who are we to say it's a bad career move? He looks happy - that's what matters. 

[AkronAlumnus]

Just now, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

Easy there. He gave us 9 great years and is leaving behind his right-hand man to man the ship at Akron. It's odd to see Groce at Charleston, but there shouldn't be any ill will. Who are we to say it's a bad career move? He looks happy - that's what matters. 

Me - worse conference, same pay, higher COL, and he left a top mid-major for it.  The only upside is Charleston is probably a better place overall.  I'd like to play them 🤷‍♂️

[Let'sGoZips94]

26 minutes ago, AkronAlumnus said:

Me - worse conference, same pay, higher COL, and he left a top mid-major for it.  The only upside is Charleston is probably a better place overall.  I'd like to play them 🤷‍♂️

 

CAA finished ahead of the MAC in NET according to Warren Nolan. CAA is the 15th best conference, MAC is the 17th. 

 

His pay increases pretty drastically as he hits the achievements he was hitting here. An added factor to the pay is what they can afford NIL wise, which seems to be more. 

 

Who knows what benefits he's receiving to offset the higher COL. He also might not care because he's in Charleston, SC, year round now. 

 

Who cares if he left for a mid major? 

 

Groce should not be the target of any disdain, anger, etc., in my opinion. Don't waste the energy, choose to be happy for him, and use the energy to support Ford. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Let'sGoZips94

[kreed5120]

1 hour ago, ZipsBBjunkie said:

Feels like there is already a thread somewhere on viability of / state of football and the program where the football discussion could sit? 
 

In the meantime, looks like a beautiful arena there at CoC - did someone on this thread say they live there, have attended games there? What kind of student turnout do they get? 

 

They have a 39 game sellout streak and they allot 900 students per game.

 

The arena was built in 2008 at a cost of $47 million. Inflation adjusted that would be $70 million. IMO if the JAR ever reaches a point of disrepair and we have to build something new, something like this should be the blueprint. Miami went way over the top with their $260 million arena.

 

Edit: Akron, if I recall correctly, competed in the Charleston classic a few years back. Someone might be able to provide better details about it from attending in person.

Edited 5 hours ago by kreed5120

[Let'sGoZips94]

6 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

They have a 39 game sellout streak and they allot 900 students per game.

 

The arena was built in 2008 at a cost of $47 million. Inflation adjusted that would be $70 million. IMO if the JAR ever reaches a point of disrepair and we have to build something new, something like this should be the blueprint. Miami went way over the top with their $260 million arena.

 

Edit: Akron, if I recall correctly, competed in the Charleston classic a few years back. Someone might be able to provide better details about it from attending in person.

 

That was our first win over Frank Martin. 

[GP1]

36 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

They have a 39 game sellout streak and they allot 900 students per game.

 

The arena was built in 2008 at a cost of $47 million. Inflation adjusted that would be $70 million. IMO if the JAR ever reaches a point of disrepair and we have to build something new, something like this should be the blueprint. Miami went way over the top with their $260 million arena.

 

Edit: Akron, if I recall correctly, competed in the Charleston classic a few years back. Someone might be able to provide better details about it from attending in person.

The arena is squeezed into an existing block and the entrance is almost at the sidewalk. If you didn't know it was a basketball arena, you might not know what you are standing outside of. One has to go in, show your ticket then go up to the concourse then down to your seat. There is a small club level at the top. Most of Charleston did not exist in revolutionary times and was mostly swamped so you can't really dig down to build because it's mostly fill and the cost of waterproofing alone would send the project skyrocketing. That's why the court is on sidewalk level. 

 

An expensive problem in downtown Charleston is getting your design through the historical society's review board. Akron wouldn't have that problem. 

 

Akron could save money by putting some of the arena below ground and not having to use products that blend into a city that is a museum. 

 

CofC has a nice arena. I wasn't awestruck, but did appreciate it. I just don't know how Akron pulls anything off in the next decade or two given their finances. 

[Hilltopper]

It's a nice arena with really good sightlines. Nothing fancy. 

[kreed5120]

22 minutes ago, GP1 said:

 

CofC has a nice arena. I wasn't awestruck, but did appreciate it. I just don't know how Akron pulls anything off in the next decade or two given their finances. 

 

I definitely agree with you there.

[Zippy87]

2 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

Easy there. He gave us 9 great years and is leaving behind his right-hand man to man the ship at Akron. It's odd to see Groce at Charleston, but there shouldn't be any ill will. Who are we to say it's a bad career move? He looks happy - that's what matters. 

 

I also hold no ill will toward him, but I will also say KD deserved this type of response from more people here when he left. 

[Let'sGoZips94]

3 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

 

I also hold no ill will toward him, but I will also say KD deserved this type of response from more people here when he left. 

 

KD should've left in a way that warranted more of this type of response. 

[Zippy87]

32 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

KD should've left in a way that warranted more of this type of response. 

 

What was so bad about the way he left? 

[Zips1991]

55 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

 

What was so bad about the way he left? 

I think the way Coach D left was actually better than the way Groce left. At least he got a big pay raise and had a connection to the school. Groce's departure makes me feel like he just wanted to leave.

[kreed5120]

5 minutes ago, Zips1991 said:

I think the way Coach D left was actually better than the way Groce left. At least he got a big pay raise and had a connection to the school. Groce's departure makes me feel like he just wanted to leave.

 

I feel much of the hate Dambrot receives is misdirected. When he left there was a large contingent that appeared to be more Dambrot fans than Akron. Those people were very vocal and quit on the program. This time it feels different in that people are rallying behind Ford.

 

Edit: People were also probably more overreacting because it was the first time in a don't know how long a ~decade long tenure coach with a lot of success left. People are more based this time because they've seen it happen before and are confident we can recover.

Edited 2 hours ago by kreed5120