Game #11 - Can't State

[exit322]

53 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

Are you really trying to argue settling for a field goal on 4th and goal from the 3 yard line when you're down 11 late in the 4th quarter?

 

Even after kicking the field goal you're still down 8 so you would need to convert a 2-point conversion from the same distance that you settled for a field goal on. The difference is a touchdown gives you 6-8 points while a 2-point conversion only gives 2. It's logical to take the risk when the return is greater since no matter what you will have 1 play from the 3-yard line with the game on the line in both scenarios.

 

That was the one particular call that I found egregious. I don't mind taking the field goals earlier in the game, but near the end of the game we absolutely should have went for it on 4th and goal.

TO BE FAIR, there was 7:14 on the clock.  It wasn't particularly egregious IMO, but it did feel like a letdown.

 

Now, 7:14 wasn't a usual "7:14" since Joe had already blown all three timeouts.  But I would say it was "midway through the fourth."

[ZippyRulz]

20 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

I honestly feel many are in denial about the state of our program moving forward. As @LZIp shared we have the smallest football operating budget in the MAC and little to no NIL.

 

Lacking a couple million dollars for NIL doesn't seem to be the issue. Look at UMass.

 

[kreed5120]

43 minutes ago, exit322 said:

TO BE FAIR, there was 7:14 on the clock.  It wasn't particularly egregious IMO, but it did feel like a letdown.

 

Now, 7:14 wasn't a usual "7:14" since Joe had already blown all three timeouts.  But I would say it was "midway through the fourth."

 

It was late enough in the game that just prior to this Joe felt the need to attempt an onside kick.

[kreed5120]

16 minutes ago, ZippyRulz said:

 

Lacking a couple million dollars for NIL doesn't seem to be the issue. Look at UMass.

 

 

I've stated this numerous times, it's not just about having the money but also knowing how to spend it effectively. 

 

Look at MAC basketball as the prime example. UMass has more money than Akron there as well, but Frank Martin mismanages how it gets spent. Meanwhile, Akron has reportedly the 2nd most NIL money, but Groce spends it wisely retaining players and identifying under the radar pieces that fit his style of play.

 

Now if Groce had next to no NIL then we would be in a similar boat to our MAC peers and forced to turnover our roster every single year. Do you think we would be having the same level of success that we are currently under that scenario?

 

If my earlier comments were construed that the only thing that matters is NIL then I must not have conveyed myself well enough. Both coaching and NIL are important in today's college landscape. A coach won't have sustained success without NIL. At the same time a program with lots of NIL, but a poor coach, will also struggle.

 

Edit: If you have both a poor coach and no NIL then you end up like NIU basketball.

Edited 22 hours ago by kreed5120

[Lee Adams]

16 hours ago, Zippy87 said:

 

Akron had the three possessions below account for 6 total points:

 

- 4th and 1 Kent 11 yard line

- 4th and 3 at the Kent 23 yard line

- 4th and 2 at the Kent 2 yard line

 

That's inexcusable, gutless football, especially playing at home in a rivalry game with so much on the line. 

 

Make all the excuses you want for the guy, but he coached ultra-conservatively, trying not to lose, while Carney coached aggressively and played to win. 

Good points. Somebody elsewhere made the observation about being good between the 20s but terrible inside the 20s.

[a-zip]

58 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

I've stated this numerous times, it's not just about having the money but also knowing how to spend it effectively. 

 

Look at MAC basketball as the prime example. UMass has more money than Akron there as well, but Frank Martin mismanages how it gets spent. Meanwhile, Akron has reportedly the 2nd most NIL money, but Groce spends it wisely retaining players and identifying under the radar pieces that fit his style of play.

 

Now if Groce had next to no NIL then we would be in a similar boat to our MAC peers and forced to turnover our roster every single year. Do you think we would be having the same level of success that we are currently under that scenario?

 

If my earlier comments were construed that the only thing that matters is NIL then I must not have conveyed myself well enough. Both coaching and NIL are important in today's college landscape. A coach won't have sustained success without NIL. At the same time a program with lots of NIL, but a poor coach, will also struggle.

 

Edit: If you have both a poor coach and no NIL then you end up like NIU basketball.

I agree 100%.  I have given a good bit of money through the years and it has been Thrown away!!  Burned!!  I am not going to do it anymore.  

 

You build a brand new stadium on Campus and fire JD Brookhart for Ianello!!!!? (btw- JD is doing a great job with our WRs)

We paid for 2 coaches back in 2018 and then had to buyout Arth's contract for $637K.

At one point we had the Bowdens, Jim Tressel, Coach D and Gerry Faust on campus.

We have arguably the best athlete on the planet in our backyard (and used to have the coach he loved).  

 

How do you f all of that up!!!?  Just leave it to the University of Akron board.  I promise you if we would have made Tressel President we would not be in this situation.

 

It is fu##ing embarrassing that we suck so bad at football but even worse is if we were good enough to play in a bowl we couldn't because our GPA is so bad.

Edited 21 hours ago by a-zip

[Lee Adams]

6 minutes ago, a-zip said:

I agree 100%.  I have given a good bit of money through the years and it has been Thrown away!!  Burned!!  I am not going to do it anymore.  

 

You build a brand new stadium on Campus and fire JD Brookhart for Ianello!!!!? (btw- JD is doing a great job with our WRs)

We paid for 2 coaches back in 2018 and then had to buyout Arth's contract for $637K.

At one point we had the Bowdens, Jim Tressel, Coach D and Gerry Faust on campus.

We have arguably the best athlete on the planet in our backyard (and used to have the coach he loved).  

 

How do you f all of that up!!!?  Just leave it to the University of Akron board.  I promise you if we would have made Tressel President we would not be in this situation.

 

It is fu##ing embarrassing that we suck so bad at football but even worse is if we were good enough to play in a bowl we couldn't because our GPA is so bad.

Dont know about Tressel as Prez. but I get your point. Id throw another coache's name in there. Lee Owens actually had them being pretty competitive in the MAC. Recruited some really good players like Hixon,Frye,Blackburn,believe Dwight Smith and some O-linemen. Some of these guys went to the NFL. Believe Owens was fired after a winning season. Brookhart used Owen's guys added some pieces was over .500 in'04  and won a MAC championship in '05.

Seems there has always been an AD or President who wants to mess with the program at the wrong time.

[kreed5120]

12 minutes ago, a-zip said:

I agree 100%.  I have given a good bit of money through the years and it has been Thrown away!!

This is why I only support Akron basketball, albeit modestly. At least with basketball we're getting some return for what we're putting into the program. Makes me feel my dollars aren't just being burned.

[GP1]

5 hours ago, zippy5 said:

Then we'd lose, just like we did anyway.

What if we make FGs and play field position instead?

[GP1]

2 hours ago, Lee Adams said:

Good points. Somebody elsewhere made the observation about being good between the 20s but terrible inside the 20s.

If a team is terrible inside the 20s, how is going for it on fourth down inside the 20s a good idea?

[a-zip]

5 hours ago, Lee Adams said:

Dont know about Tressel as Prez. but I get your point. Id throw another coache's name in there. Lee Owens actually had them being pretty competitive in the MAC. Recruited some really good players like Hixon,Frye,Blackburn,believe Dwight Smith and some O-linemen. Some of these guys went to the NFL. Believe Owens was fired after a winning season. Brookhart used Owen's guys added some pieces was over .500 in'04  and won a MAC championship in '05.

Seems there has always been an AD or President who wants to mess with the program at the wrong time.

My point about Tressel has to do with 3 THINGS!

 

1- FUNDRAISING -  he would have been an AMAZING fundraiser, even our competition loves him.  I will mention LBJ again....I guarantee you Tressel could have reeled him in.   You look at some of the Universities that have prospered lately, it is all about fundraising.  JMU and High Point are two that come to mind.  Those president's have done an amazing job.  UA enrollment is 50% of what it used to be.  WE HAVE NO IDENTITY except a broke school that is good at soccer.

2- DECISION MAKING - sometimes it is better to stay out of the way.  Don't make a bad decision worse.  Cut your losses.  That is 100% coach Tress.

3- HIRING - bring in homegrown people not people that are looking to use the school as a stepping stone.  Most schools in the MAC lose coaches because they are successful and they move to bigger jobs.  We actually fire coaches because they are horrible and buy them out.  Now we can't afford to feed our players properly.  If we had made coach Tress President I bet he would have stayed until he retired.  And he wouldn't have retired until he was successful.  JoeMo is the best coach we could have hoped for.  We have handcuffed him.  He is not even playing with a budget or NIL competitive in the MAC.  Nick Saban couldn't win here.

Edited 15 hours ago by a-zip

[GP1]

34 minutes ago, a-zip said:

My point about Tressel has to do with 3 THINGS!

 

1- FUNDRAISING -  he would have been an AMAZING fundraiser, even our competition loves him.  I will mention LBJ again....I guarantee you Tressel could have reeled him in.   You look at some of the Universities that have prospered lately, it is all about fundraising.  JMU and High Point are two that come to mind.  Those president's have done an amazing job.  UA enrollment is 50% of what it used to be.  WE HAVE NO IDENTITY except a broke school that is good at soccer.

2- DECISION MAKING - sometimes it is better to stay out of the way.  Don't make a bad decision worse.  Cut your losses.  That is 100% coach Tress.

3- HIRING - bring in homegrown people not people that are looking to use the school as a stepping stone.  Most schools in the MAC lose coaches because they are successful and they move to bigger jobs.  We actually fire coaches because they are horrible and buy them out.  Now we can't afford to feed our players properly.  If we had made coach Tress President I bet he would have stayed until he retired.  And he wouldn't have retired until he was successful.  JoeMo is the best coach we could have hoped for.  We have handcuffed him.  He is not even playing with a budget or NIL competitive in the MAC.  Nick Saban couldn't win here.

How much if your own money would you be willing to lay on a bet that JT would have reeled in LBJ?  Before saying, define "reeling in". 

[clarkwgriswold]

1 hour ago, a-zip said:

My point about Tressel has to do with 3 THINGS!

 

1- FUNDRAISING -  he would have been an AMAZING fundraiser, even our competition loves him.  I will mention LBJ again....I guarantee you Tressel could have reeled him in.   You look at some of the Universities that have prospered lately, it is all about fundraising.  JMU and High Point are two that come to mind.  Those president's have done an amazing job.  UA enrollment is 50% of what it used to be.  WE HAVE NO IDENTITY except a broke school that is good at soccer.

2- DECISION MAKING - sometimes it is better to stay out of the way.  Don't make a bad decision worse.  Cut your losses.  That is 100% coach Tress.

3- HIRING - bring in homegrown people not people that are looking to use the school as a stepping stone.  Most schools in the MAC lose coaches because they are successful and they move to bigger jobs.  We actually fire coaches because they are horrible and buy them out.  Now we can't afford to feed our players properly.  If we had made coach Tress President I bet he would have stayed until he retired.  And he wouldn't have retired until he was successful.  JoeMo is the best coach we could have hoped for.  We have handcuffed him.  He is not even playing with a budget or NIL competitive in the MAC.  Nick Saban couldn't win here.

 

I know someone who was in the administration when Tressel came to U of A.  The collective expectation was that he was going to be a lazy figurehead easing into retirement.  To their surprise and pleasure, he worked very hard and did well in the job.  The school could use a guy like that now to help make up for their introvert head coach.

[exit322]

1 hour ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

I know someone who was in the administration when Tressel came to U of A.  The collective expectation was that he was going to be a lazy figurehead easing into retirement.  To their surprise and pleasure, he worked very hard and did well in the job.  The school could use a guy like that now to help make up for their introvert head coach.

 

I think that's one of the reasons Carney seems a better fit.  He's no introvert.

 

Not that introversion is bad...I'm an introvert haha.  But head ball coach isn't necessarily the best role for an introvert.

[a-zip]

3 hours ago, GP1 said:

How much if your own money would you be willing to lay on a bet that JT would have reeled in LBJ?  Before saying, define "reeling in". 

By "reeling in" I mean get him to make a significant contribution to the basketball program.  Co-funding or helping to promote a proper basketball arena.  Possibly King James Arena?

Edited 11 hours ago by a-zip

[GP1]

46 minutes ago, a-zip said:

By "reeling in" I mean get him to make a significant contribution to the basketball program.  Co-funding or helping to promote a proper basketball arena.  Possibly King James Arena?

WOW! That sounds like a lot. Exactly how much are we talking about? Now, about the part where you bet your own money. 

[72 Roo]

After calming down I still want offer a few thoughts on the Kent game so bear with me.

 

Our biggest problem Tuesday night wasn't JoMo, player stupidity, the refs, or the cold. It was Kent State. They came believing they could win. They didn't have the talent, but they had a plan and they stuck to it.

 

The game was exciting. The rivalry is renewed and heightened. The public wants a good game between these two schools and they will show if they believe it is going be a good game.

 

Zip football can recover. It will be slow and it will be a series of addressing issues one at a time. Nemer wants a good team. Goodrich has been told to build up the program. He believes he can, but only over time. He is building up NIL now. It will not be great, but it's a start.

 

Jo will not be fired or bought out. If he leaves no one in administration will talk him out of it. 

 

Jo told his team he didn't believe in them when he kicked a FG on 4th and one. They were on the 11 and all they needed was one f**king yard. It was the first series of the game and they had nothing to lose. Why?

 

The Zips weren't prepared. On the first series of each half a TO called to straighten out the team. What a waste! What team uses TO's tat early in the game. That's an indictment on the staff, not the players. Also how can DeWalt be running to the ball on a punt when the receiver ran away from it thus exposing DeWalt to a bounce that goes his way, hits him and gives the recovery to Kent. That's stupidity and poor coaching.  High school kids know not to do that.

 

Speaking of coaching, I watched Kamara after giving up an 89 yard TD to Clark. He went to the bench, threw his helmet down and no one talked to him. Not fellow players, not captains , not a coach. He sat alone for several plays until a coach told him to get up and join the DB's. No coaching was given and guess what? He blew it again for another Kent TD.  

 

We were the better team, but we lost. Jo coached teams do that every year he has coached. Not once, but two or three times each season he has been here. After four seasons why would we expect it to stop. Jo has yet to show he can correct it. He may feel he hasn't gotten a fair deal here and he would be right. Sill he has compounded the problems and for that he can't blame anyone else but himself.   

[exit322]

6 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

Jo will not be fired or bought out. If he leaves no one in administration will talk him out of it.  

 

He may feel he hasn't gotten a fair deal here and he would be right. Sill he has compounded the problems and for that he can't blame anyone else but himself.   

 

Since he's already grumbling about how he doesn't have the support to complete, maybe the angle is to make it clear HE'S not getting it...

[Let'sGoZips94]

Thanks for your thoughts @72 Roo. Interesting that Goodrich is building NIL.

 

@exit322 JoeMo's complaining is exactly why he's the worst coach for the job.  It's pathetic.  He knew what he was coming into and his prickly ego/personality has created another hurdle for the program to climb over. 

[GP1]

8 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

They came believing they could win. 

I'm not sure about this. I think they were ready to fold early in the game. Akron let them think they could win after the botched punt return and big play after. 

 

Is Akron a good team? They gave up six sacks and have given up a lot during the season. Do good teams allow a team like Kent to produce more turnovers? Do good teams allow the Kent's if the world to get six sacks? Do good teams miss less than 40 yard FGs?

 

Did they lose because they didn't go for it on a couple of fourth downs?  Not really. They were 2 of 4 on fourth down conversions. The national average is 54 percent. Whenever I go games and the crowd yells for the coach to go for it on fourth down I yell to to coach to kick it and not listen to the crowd because they have been drinking all day. I have a pretty steadfast rule in life.... Never listen to the advice of thousands of drunks. 

 

Sporting events are almost always actively lost, not won. Teams lose not because of things they didn't do. Teams lose because of things they DO. So, is Akron a good team?  Teams that DO the things they DO aren't good teams. If Akron ends the season 4-8, which it looks like they will, are they a good team? No, the body of actual evidence in 2025 will show that what they did proves them to be a bad team. 

[clarkwgriswold]

Somebody has to step up and be the sociable, affable, ***-kisser to make up for JoMo's inability or unwillingness to be that guy in chasing NIL money.  Maybe that's Goodrich.  I've liked what I've seen so far from him.

 

The most frustrating thing about the six sacks is that everyone watching the game saw them coming other than Finley and JoMo.  Many of them were in situations where the Zips went 4 or 5 wide and PCCC blitzed and just outnumbered the Zips linemen.  How about and audible or an adjustment or two?