Game 4—UT Chattannoga

[zippy5]

Anyone happen to watch any Chattanooga hoops yet? If I remember right they played a pretty fast paced havoc-style game when they made the tourney a year or two ago. Not sure if Paris continued that or not

[NWAkron]

35 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

That's why I stated above that the MAC raising its profile does not mean that you have to hope that Kent becomes massively successful.  

Right.  I only hope that Northern Illinois becomes massively successful.

[a-zip]

You guys will argue anything  Well if you want the MAC schools to lose OOC games, don't cry when or if at large bids start being made.  I can assure you as Gonzaga and Wichita State were climbing their way to becoming relevant basketball programs they were rooting for their in conference teams to win all OOC games to secure at large bids and then win higher seeding.  BTW - Wichita State has moved to the AAC now.  I promise you coach Embick was rooting for WMU and all other teams in our conference this year except when they played us.

 

I can tell you one person who would agree with my position..........the Head MBB Coach at Duquesne 

 

Selection process

[zippy5]

29 minutes ago, a-zip said:

You guys will argue anything  Well if you want the MAC schools to lose OOC games, don't cry when or if at large bids start being made.  I can assure you as Gonzaga and Wichita State were climbing their way to becoming relevant basketball programs they were rooting for their in conference teams to win all OOC games to secure at large bids and then win higher seeding.  BTW - Wichita State has moved to the AAC now.  I promise you coach Embick was rooting for WMU and all other teams in our conference this year except when they played us.

 

I can tell you one person who would agree with my position..........the Head MBB Coach at Duquesne 

 

Selection process

I picture no scenario in which I'm sitting at home on selection Sunday thinking "man if only Kent won more games"

[NWAkron]

27 minutes ago, a-zip said:

You guys will argue anything  Well if you want the MAC schools to lose OOC games, don't cry when or if at large bids start being made.  I can assure you as Gonzaga and Wichita State were climbing their way to becoming relevant basketball programs they were rooting for their in conference teams to win all OOC games to secure at large bids and then win higher seeding.  BTW - Wichita State has moved to the AAC now.  I promise you coach Embick was rooting for WMU and all other teams in our conference this year except when they played us.

 

I can tell you one person who would agree with my position..........the Head MBB Coach at Duquesne 

 

Selection process

At-Large!

[kreed5120]

21 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

I picture no scenario in which I'm sitting at home on selection Sunday thinking "man if only Kent won more games"

I wish they would have lost 1 more game in Cleveland 

[Dr Z]

I'm moving closer to the final stage of my 'Wishing-for-two MAC-bids' grieving process, acceptance. ?

[RowdyZip]

Funniest thing about this argument, and it is all I'll say, is that the lack of multiple bid conferences in the MAC (and similar conferences) has a lot more to do with the powers that be at the top than it does with actual conference performance.  There are a handful of regular season MAC champs over the last decade that would've been easy at-large choices 20+ years ago.  The fact of the matter is that the selection process is continuously tweaked and it is not in favor of the little guy.  Just like we'll never see a G5 team in the CFP, the next thing we'll see go over the next 10-20 years will be the AQ bids from the smallest conferences.

 

Go Zips!  Beat the Mocs!

[skip-zip]

4 minutes ago, RowdyZip said:

Just like we'll never see a G5 team in the CFP, the next thing we'll see go over the next 10-20 years will be the AQ bids from the smallest conferences.

 

Now that they're already making the weakest #16 seeds play a play-in game, they are probably a step closer to eliminating those teams.  But, I do wonder if the public's attraction to those kinds of teams, and the possibility of big upsets, is something that the tournament powers could never justify eliminating?  If the field was smaller, the "Cinderella Factor" would go away. 

[RowdyZip]

Just now, skip-zip said:

 

Now that they're already making the weakest #16 seeds play a play-in game, they are probably a step closer to eliminating those teams.  But, I do wonder if the public's attraction to those kinds of teams, and the possibility of big upsets, is something that the tournament powers could never justify eliminating?  If the field was smaller, the "Cinderella Factor" would go away. 

Perhaps.  It's a gradual process though, as look how long it took to get the play-in games implemented.  The next step would be removing the AQ of the low-majors, then pushing MAC/Horizon/MVC type schools into the 16 seeds/play-in games.  I'm not one to be conspiracy theorist, but I think the writing is on the wall within the next 20-30 years there will be an additional division in NCAA between the "haves" and the "have nots."  Only time will tell.

[RowdyZip]

I was attempting to find a list of at-large teams by tournament year, but couldn't find much.  But here's a telling stat:

 

At-Large bids awarded to teams with sub-.500 conference records in tournament history (77 years):  33.  15 of those have occurred in the last 20 tournaments.

 

[NWAkron]

22 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

Now that they're already making the weakest #16 seeds play a play-in game, they are probably a step closer to eliminating those teams.  But, I do wonder if the public's attraction to those kinds of teams, and the possibility of big upsets, is something that the tournament powers could never justify eliminating?  If the field was smaller, the "Cinderella Factor" would go away. 

We have hijacked this thread but it's painfully obvious that the NCAA doesn't want a final four consisting of a Cinderella.  The fans at home might like it but they aren't the ones filling up the seats in a football arena obnoxiously converted into a basketball court.  And Akron team coming out of an East region facing a St Mary's out of the West region would be a tragedy for the NCAA based on their out-dated thinking.  These schools are now seeded to maximize the elimination of mid and low majors.

[clarkwgriswold]

George Mason doesn't fill the Hilton.

[kreed5120]

March Madness is the largest moneymaker for the NCAA. The cinderella effect and office pool is what makes it what it is. They aren't going to change the format to exclude mid-majors anytime soon.

 

The reason the MAC hasn't been getting at-large bids is because for the most part they haven't done enough to deserve one. The MAC's last at-large was 1999 and since then you could really only make an argument we "deserved"  and at-large 1-2 of those times since. The MAC was getting at-large bids in the 80's and 90's because it had better teams at the top of the conference. Between 1988 and 1999, I'm counting 11 players drafted in the 1st or 2nd round. That breaks our to ~1 per year. Over the last 11 years (same time frame) the MAC has had a whopping 2 players drafted. If the MAC can get back to recruiting and developing talent like it did in the 80s and 90s, the at-large bids will follow.

[Let'sGoZips94]

4 hours ago, a-zip said:

You guys will argue anything  Well if you want the MAC schools to lose OOC games, don't cry when or if at large bids start being made.  I can assure you as Gonzaga and Wichita State were climbing their way to becoming relevant basketball programs they were rooting for their in conference teams to win all OOC games to secure at large bids and then win higher seeding.  BTW - Wichita State has moved to the AAC now.  I promise you coach Embick was rooting for WMU and all other teams in our conference this year except when they played us.

 

I can tell you one person who would agree with my position..........the Head MBB Coach at Duquesne 

 

Selection process

 

- Wichita State cared so much about their conference, they left for a better one. 

 

- I bet Embick was rooting for our football program a whole helluva lot more than another MAC school's soccer program. A better football team would make us more appealing to a better conference, which would get our national powerhouse soccer program (which by the way, was built without the success of other MAC schools) out of the MAC. 

 

- He used the 1-bid MAC as an excuse and a crutch for plateau mediocrity. Not a strong person to have in your corner. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by lilroodude

[skip-zip]

39 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

March Madness is the largest moneymaker for the NCAA. The cinderella effect and office pool is what makes it what it is. They aren't going to change the format to exclude mid-majors anytime soon.

 

That's the way I'm leaning.   Tickets sales to the games is only one part of the money that's made from March Madness.  As with most sports, sponsors and TV advertising revenue is what makes everything possible.  

 

1 hour ago, NWAkron said:

We have hijacked this thread but it's painfully obvious that the NCAA doesn't want a final four consisting of a Cinderella.  The fans at home might like it but they aren't the ones filling up the seats in a football arena obnoxiously converted into a basketball court. 

 

No Cinderella has to make it to the Final 4 in order for the tournament to see the value of the Cinderellas in capturing the fascination of college basketball fans.  

 

And if your focus is only on the attendance at the Final 4 and Championship Game, that has become one of the premium yearly tickets in sports.  That part of their revenue stream is probably going to max out from this point forward, no matter which 4 teams are playing.  

[Captain Kangaroo]

2 hours ago, NWAkron said:

We have hijacked this thread but it's painfully obvious that the NCAA doesn't want a final four consisting of a Cinderella.  

Brad Stevens would disagree.

[skip-zip]

Actually, Butler being in those Final 4's likely made those years more exciting for everyone.  Certainly more memorable.  That benefits the NCAA.  I don't see why they'd have a problem with that.  

[zippy5]

5 hours ago, a-zip said:

You guys will argue anything  Well if you want the MAC schools to lose OOC games, don't cry when or if at large bids start being made.  I can assure you as Gonzaga and Wichita State were climbing their way to becoming relevant basketball programs they were rooting for their in conference teams to win all OOC games to secure at large bids and then win higher seeding.  BTW - Wichita State has moved to the AAC now.  I promise you coach Embick was rooting for WMU and all other teams in our conference this year except when they played us.

 

I can tell you one person who would agree with my position..........the Head MBB Coach at Duquesne 

 

Selection process

You've shifted the goal posts quite a bit now. There's a difference in wanting the conference as a whole to do well and rooting for your arch rival. That's all I'll say on it as this is a Chattanooga thread and this argument could go on for a while.

[skip-zip]

30 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

There's a difference in wanting the conference as a whole to do well and rooting for your arch rival.

 

[clarkwgriswold]

Let's go Zips.  Put 'em away early tonight so that Clarky can get home early and sleep off this cold.

[a-zip]

1 hour ago, zippy5 said:

You've shifted the goal posts quite a bit now. There's a difference in wanting the conference as a whole to do well and rooting for your arch rival. That's all I'll say on it as this is a Chattanooga thread and this argument could go on for a while.

I didn't shift anything.  My original post was 

Quote

"It's not good news (or funny) when the MAC is losing games, even Can't State.  We want them to win all games except when they play us."

My position hasn't shifted and I am surprised this appears to be so difficult to digest...oh well.  If MAC teams, to include Kent, lose to shitty teams and we beat them - it does not help our SOS, RPI, etc....Its not complicated.  If you guys want to pull the Gonzaga's and WSU in to this mix, I can assure they benefited through the years from other teams in their conferences winning OOC games.

 

Its funny, the same group that talks about having meaningful games at the JAR or INFO argue that they would want our conference foes to lose OOC.  How meaningful is it when you play an 0-7 Kent team, an 0-8 Ohio team, etc. vs playing and beating a ranked Kent or Ohio team. 

 

[NWAkron]

 Go Zips!  Kill the Mockingbirds!

[NWAkron]

New uniforms?  Gray/blue...hint of gold?

[LZIp]

3 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

New uniforms?  Gray/blue...hint of gold?

I was thinking the same thing.